Why is Cunego not on Form?

[Bala Verde]

If you dope do you work out/exercise as hard to achieve your goals compared to when you don't dope?

If you think you can do without killing yourself in trainings and still be competitive due whatever you use, he might have a training deficit in case he doped before and has come clean. While the others, non-dopers killed themselves, he was slacking (which was made up for by d), and now he pays the consequences, not only d-less, but also behind physically...

 

[lookkg386]

...And nothing lasts 4 ever...Why are we fretting over the form of guys from yesteryear. Things have changed, thankfully. The best thing about this Giro has been the emergence of the new guys. The worst......the dragging effect of ol' Armstrong's prescence.

New guys!, what new guys???
GC looks pretty familiar to me-
Di Luca,Menchov. Rogers, Levi, Sastre, Basso, Simoni.
Lovkvist is the standout young guy but rest have been around a while.

 

[elapid]

I know Rogers has had this and his overall abilities, with the same illness, have not been too badly affected, though he has also lost a bit of ability on the climbs considering he was once thought of as a potential GT winner.

He still is considered a GT winner. For this Giro in fact. 1'30" or so down on Di Luca with a difficult time trial tomorrow, having been triple world champion in the time trial. Levi is pinning his hopes on the overall with a good showing in tomorrow's time trial. Why not Rogers, especially considering he is higher up on the overall standings and theoretically a better time trialist?

 

[Big_Blue_Dave]

As has been said in other threads on the Giro, the course has not been as tough as it has in previous years. If the original Cuneo to Pinerolo stage had been used we may have time gaps that are at least twice as long with a completely different look to them.

As it is, this does remind me of the 2004 Giro with Brad McGee a lot when he managed to wear the Maglia Rosa, the time trial is different but I do see Mick managing to gain time and then fall away on the tougher mountain finishes towards the end of the race.

 

[elapid]

I'm playing semantics, and also getting off topic (sorry!), but I would still call Rogers a potential GC for the Giro, regardless of how hard it may or may not be. He has shown to be Levi's equal in the mountains and has an excellent squad supporting him. I think it may come down to how well Di Luca performs in the time trial and how well Menchov can progress through both the time trial and mountains. Menchov is probably my pick of the bunch. I suppose what I am trying to say is that your previous post suggested that Rogers was no longer a potential GT winner because of mononucleosis, but I would disagree based on his performances to date (and yes, there is still two weeks to go).

 

[Escarabajo]

Not to forget that he also had Mononucleosis (sp) sometimes that completely destroy your physiological capabilities, or alter them in a way that subtlely changes your ability in a sporting sense. Cunego used to be able to sprint in a bunch as well as climb, but once he came back from his illness had lost that spark from the burst of power he had. I also think it may have altered his capacity to breathe and convert O2 into energy at much higher altitudes were the oxygen levels are less.

I know Rogers has had this and his overall abilities, with the same illness, have not been too badly affected, though he has also lost a bit of ability on the climbs considering he was once thought of as a potential GT winner.

I like your point of view. I think I believe this is what is hapenning. I mean, to be in top form to win a grand tour your must part of a 0.1% club of freaks anyway. I think everyng in your body has to be perfect.

We can not always blame everything on doping. If a rider is outspoken about doping then everybody else above him is doping?? That is like creating an "Alibi" for your poor performance.

Wel I have been proven wrong in the past anyway. But that's my opinion.

 

[Escarabajo]

This is from todays article in Cyclingnews:

"I am right there, I did the best possible preparation and I always gave it my all, but cycling is truly going fast," Lampre-NGC's captain told Cyclingnews.

and some more:

"Clearly there are others who are going stronger than me. I am giving 110 percent, and evidently it is not enough. But why do I need to worry, it is bicycle racing and there are other things in life."

Cunego's statements appear to suggest a "cycling at two speeds" - a phrase first used by Française des Jeux manager Marc Madiot.

So can this be classified as whining? Or maybe he just does not have it? I am sure that when Greg Lemond was being dropped from the peloton not everything had to be blamed on the doping. That's the best way out but maybe there were some health issues, just maybe.

 

[unsheath]

Are we forgetting that he won the Coppi e Bartoli not so long ago, so he's hardly out of form. He's been dropped on every mountain thus far, even with the reduced climbing speed. On the balance of things, he's more than likely clean, and I for one applaud him for both speaking out and his 'there's life outside cycling' mentality. You've got to remember that he's in the inner circle, so he'll have an idea what what riders and on what programs, and thus more qualified to make such statements than you or I.

 

[mherm79]

i agreee with unsheath - Cunego should know if things are suspicious or not.

i recall O'Grady commenting on how he couldn't keep up with Landis during a climb on his St17 solo and how he thought at the time something was right... we know how that one played out...

 

[jaylew]

He's just not as good a big tour GC rider as people think. When it gets too far and to high mountains he can't cope against the best out there.

I agree with you but it doesn't explain everything as he's climbing much worse than usual. And he was getting dropped on stages that weren't even crazy hard (for a GT climbing stage), and in the 1st week at that.

 

[tifosa]

So can this be classified as whining?

I think it's an honest assessment coupled with a lament over how his non enhanced talents compare to those "of acquired means".

Chapeau Cunego.

 

[Diablo]

New guys!, what new guys???
GC looks pretty familiar to me-
Di Luca,Menchov. Rogers, Levi, Sastre, Basso, Simoni.
Lovkvist is the standout young guy but rest have been around a while.

You're right. What was I thinking? Only just seen the Queen stage. Awesome. But I think there was one rider in the top ten uner the age of 29. Class shows and that was one classy stage. Chapeau.

 

[bastigon]

You're right. What was I thinking? Only just seen the Queen stage. Awesome. But I think there was one rider in the top ten uner the age of 29. Class shows and that was one classy stage. Chapeau.

If Lovkvist is caught as a doper I will be really surprised. He has stated several times that he wanted to come to a dope free environment at Columbia and that he is against doping. He has been a talent since young age and has taken small steps every second year in the GT:s. I really trust this guy and I hope and believe he is riding clean.

 

[BroDeal]

i agreee with unsheath - Cunego should know if things are suspicious or not.

i recall O'Grady commenting on how he couldn't keep up with Landis during a climb on his St17 solo and how he thought at the time something was right... we know how that one played out...

O'Grady not being able to keep up with Landis on a climb when Landis dropped the hammer? Yeah, that's suspicious. In other news Landis thought it was suspicious that he was unable to outsprint O'Grady.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I agree with pretty much all here, and applaud Cunego for his stance, especially considering it's highly likely he was high on the spice back in 2004. His words seem contrite to me in this regard, confessing through the lines, sort of the way Heras speaks of his past. Let's hope he really is clean and can put up some wins this way.

One thing to keep in mind, had the 2004 Giro been harder, had more competition, or he been on another team than Simoni, Cunego may have gotten 2nd, or 4th that year, and we probably wouldn't have the same expectations we do of him today.

As to O'Grady's comments. I don't recall Stuey chasing anyone down in the mountains? Besides, we now know in retrospect that Floyd wasn't the only one jacked that Tour. Kloden, Rasmussen, etc. Many more, just not proven, yet.

 

[chrisfox]

Is it me or Cunego was really fitted during the Pre-Giro races riding against the same riders and now is just fading away, am I missing something?

Is this a repeat of last year Tour de france?

Is this the Max that he is going to give?

Discuss,

He's riding clean now. I don't think it's much more complicated that that.

 

[rhubroma]

I agree with pretty much all here, and applaud Cunego for his stance, especially considering it's highly likely he was high on the spice back in 2004. His words seem contrite to me in this regard, confessing through the lines, sort of the way Heras speaks of his past. Let's hope he really is clean and can put up some wins this way.

One thing to keep in mind, had the 2004 Giro been harder, had more competition, or he been on another team than Simoni, Cunego may have gotten 2nd, or 4th that year, and we probably wouldn't have the same expectations we do of him today.

As to O'Grady's comments. I don't recall Stuey chasing anyone down in the mountains? Besides, we now know in retrospect that Floyd wasn't the only one jacked that Tour. Kloden, Rasmussen, etc. Many more, just not proven, yet.

Cunego won the 04 Giro because of a team tactical manuveur that favored him but penalized Simoni. When Cunego attacked on a climb, sombody was supposed to go after him so that Simoni could counter the move. But that didn't pan out becuase there was nobody good enough in the race that year (because the worlds best stage racers, were trying to beat Lance at the Tour and so played his game of no Giro as preperation: either the Tour de Suisse or the Dauphine were on everybody else's program) and, therefore, Simoni, who should have won the Giro was neutralized and could only frustratedly watch il piccolo principe ride toward glory...

Thus, as you correctly assume, there were way too many expectations put on a young rider's shoulders that were completely unrealistic, as every Giro and Tour since then has demonstrated. He a.) doesn't have the talent and b.) is apparently clean. Or perhaps b.) explains why he appears not to have enough talent. Cause if he were jacked up like everybody else going for a podium finish, then he'd at least certainly be more competitive then his current condition allows him to be.

And winning at Coppi-Bartali isn't the Giro. Just like the Dauphine isn't the Tour. At these former races one's, let us say, "status" of preparation is only at the conventional level. For the latter events we move into the nuclear arms phase. Cunego "knows" that's what's up and his commentary, for those who can read between the lines, let's us know that he does.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Wonder if Cunego will try to get away on Stage 15. Perhaps even with someone like Simoni? That looks like a good stage for strong riders who are several minutes back to get away. Especially as the GC guys will only be looking at each other and holding a little back before 16's queen stage.

Joe Papp made two comments recently. First was asking if others believed Cunego was clean in 2004. Most answered as I did, with "who knows?" replies. He then later hinted at the Saeco "program" that Big B speaks of, implying he knew the answer was very likely "yes", and now we're seeing that all come to fruition. Presuming of course Cunego is indeed clean (or way cleaner).

 

[Cookie Crumbler]

Lampre had three riders test positive in 2008, Vila, Bossoni and a third whose name I can't remember right now. According to the UCI's code of ethics Lampre should have withdrawn from racing sometime in 2008, for a few weeks at least. A fourth positive test would mean that the team must return their licence, if Lampre respects the code of ethics that is.

I wonder if this figures into the equation.

 

[Escarabajo]

Cunego arrived at 11.53' back in the Blockhaus stage on place 84. Maybe Mr. Big Boat was right by saying that if you ride clean, sooner or later you will blow out in the mountains. And never mind the saving energy for what?? Don't even think about making a come back on the Vesuvio stage. So this looks like a legitimate loss.

 

[luckyboy]

Lampre had three riders test positive in 2008, Vila, Bossoni and a third whose name I can't remember right now. According to the UCI's code of ethics Lampre should have withdrawn from racing sometime in 2008, for a few weeks at least. A fourth positive test would mean that the team must return their licence, if Lampre respects the code of ethics that is.

I wonder if this figures into the equation.

Chrisitan Murro tested positive for a masking agent


Also, Scott-American Beef/SDV had Mayo, Ricco & Piepoli test positive/admit doping within 24 months

 

[Angliru]

i recall O'Grady commenting on how he couldn't keep up with Landis during a climb on his St17 solo and how he thought at the time something was right... we know how that one played out...

No offense, but since when has O'Grady ever been able to keep up with a gc contender on a climb? Isn't he pretty much a flatlander/sprinter/cobblestone specialist?

 

[Angliru]

Cunego's Giro win makes me think of Oscar Pereiro eventual Tour victory. Even he has stated that he's no Tour contender. Cunego has not accepted that he maybe his win was an aberration. He has yet to show since 2004 in a grand tour that he can climb and compete with the rest of those contending for the overall classification. Pereiro prior to his 2nd place and eventual 1st place after Landis's doping case, was consistently in and around 10th place finisher at the Tour, occasionally showing the ability to climb with the best.

 

[Cookie Crumbler]

Seems like he has simply resigned by now. Or he is saving energy for another stage, as today's stage would be hotly contested by the GC contenders.

On a sidenote:
Eurosport announcers mentioned that Lampre will terminate Bruseghins 2-year contract after only one year. They said the sponsor was dissatisfied with his role in the strike in Milan. Does anybody have any more information? I don't know if this has been covered somewhere else on the forum. Sorry for going a bit off topic.

 

[Escarabajo]

With the latest findings about Cunego's being involve in the "Mantova Police Investigation" I question if his involvement dates to when he won the Giro and won the white jersey in the Tour. Otherwise he was just a donkey who was trying to keep up with the pure "clean" climbers.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gaz...-more-details-of-mantova-police-investigation