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TANK91 said:
Did you actually ride on cobbles? I much more prefer 10-15km climb than 2km cobble sector (poor wrists and forearms!). Any amateur can complete TdF stage, even if it takes long time, not many can complete PR.
Basically a GT is a race for specialists (sadly) in which you just need to know how to climb and not fall off the bike during TT (or in case of TdF 2015 you could walk all ITT kilometres and still be in contention) and then have someone babysit you through flat stages.
PR is a different story
Buffalo Soldier said:
Yes I absolutely loved riding around in the Flemish Ardennes, but that's just crypto-ashphalt according to our friend Echoes. I definitely want to experience the real deal and ride the PR cobbles sometime.
damian13ster said:
It also depends on how you're built a little bit though. I mean, I could probably get some silly mountain-bike gear and crawl up Crostis-Zoncolan or something, but I'm 190cm and >75kg; I'm not so sure whether PR would be more difficult for me to finish compared to a 200km+ Zomegnanesque Dolomite stage. But hey, as of yet, I didn't have the opportunity to experience either, so I don't know. But I imagine a 60kg amateur might have a different preference.
gustienordic said:I'm curious which would be the ultimate worst day of racing:
PR in freezing rain (perhaps even snow
Zoncolan/Angrilu in 90 degree heat after bonking
Riders bonking in a difficult day on a difficult climb lose maybe 30 minutes or more, but they generally still finish in the bus. Paris-Roubaix in snow will probably get cancelled.
TANK91 said:
This post is ridiculous. Cav can and will not ever win P-R and you are incredibly underestimating the difficulty of P-R.
Actually I hope you were just trolling.
Kwibus said:
For the same reason he will never win Flanders or compete for the hour record. Nearly 3km sectors take more than 300m explosiveness.
We could line up a contest of back to back hard dolomites stages vs two P-Rs over a weekend.
My bet is we will have plenty of finishers doing the mountains, but not many will finish the cobbles challenge.
My bet is we will have plenty of finishers doing the mountains, but not many will finish the cobbles challenge.
Dazed and Confused said:
I can't believe so many people think that it's so difficult to 'finish' P-R. Most people drop out because it's a one day race and they couldn't be bothered finishing 20min behind and risking an injury so early in the season, especially when it's seen as 'acceptable' to not finish.
happytramp said:
I can't believe you think many riders just drop out of P-R because they want an early bath or feel like being on the safe side.
From PR '12:
OTL HOLLENSTEIN RetoTeam Netapp-
OTL VAN WINDEN DennisRabobank Cycling Team-
OTL GUESDON FrédéricEquipe Cycliste FDJ - BigMat-
OTL SUTTON ChrisSky Procycling-
OTL KEUKELEIRE JensOrica GreenEDGE-
OTL MARYCZ JaroslawTeam Saxo Bank-Tinkoff Bank-
OTL BOUCHER DavidEquipe Cycliste FDJ - BigMat-
OTL ROBERTS LukeTeam Saxo Bank-Tinkoff Bank-
OTL MORTENSEN MartinVacansoleil - DCM-
OTL KRIVTSOV DmytroLampre - ISD-
OTL KRIVTSOV YuriyLampre - ISD-
OTL BOECKMANS KrisVacansoleil - DCM-
OTL IRIZAR ARANBURU MarkelRadioShack - Nissan-
OTL LABORIE ChristopheSaur - Sojasun-
OTL KLUGE RogerArgos - Shimano-
OTL GAZVODA GregorAG2R La Mondiale-
OTL GODDAERT KristofAG2R La Mondiale-
OTL KLEMME DominicArgos - Shimano-
OTL BAUER JackTeam Garmin - Barracuda-
OTL EICHLER MarkusTeam Netapp-
OTL DE PATRE RobertoFarnese Vini-Neri-Sottoli-
OTL PEREZ MORENO RubenEuskaltel - Euskadi-
OTL VAN ZANDBEEK RonanArgos - Shimano-
OTL SINKELDAM RamonArgos - Shimano-
OTL HALLER MarcoTeam Katusha -
OTL SAGAN JurajLiquigas - Cannondale-
OTL CHTIOUI RafaâTeam Europcar
For many riders PR is the end of the spring classic season. PR is one of the only classics where many riders wants to have a string of finishes on their CV, not just a collection of DNFs.
Again not many riders would be able to handle two PRs in a row.
Dazed and Confused said:
And I think they all could. Maybe not whilst being competitive but it's certainly not beyond the physical prowess of a pro rider to finish two days of racing on cobbles.
happytramp said:
lol, the vast majority would not make it or OTL. Two PRs in a row. No way. We are not talking RVV styles cobbles or the kiddie stuff some of the GC riders are struggling with in the tour.
damian13ster said:
That would make him an all-round rider, raising his status above grand tour winners closer to a Moser or Kelly, not a Lemond or Merckx, or ....
Racing for the win in one-day races for grand tour champions was far more common, ending about the time of Lemond's supremacy.
Dazed and Confused said:
Check out 2010, even more riders OTL. Only 74 riders within the time limit and it was dry weather!
Dazed and Confused said:
If you make the time cut %5 for a dolomites stage just like P-R, there would be a lot of riders who won't be able to finish in time.
Maaaaaaaarten said:Yes I absolutely loved riding around in the Flemish Ardennes, but that's just crypto-ashphalt according to our friend Echoes. I definitely want to experience the real deal and ride the PR cobbles sometime.
He's right. I've done both RvV and PR sportive/challenges.
The difference between the cobblestones at each event is HUUUUUUGE.
The monday after RvV's 160+kms we rode from our hotel in Ghent to Valenciennes (100+kms) - there's no way known we could have done that on the monday after PR...
If you don't do the PR challenge, go out on the friday and ride the course - it'll mostly be marked already with the flouro arrows, and you'll see a pro or few about too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1QXKjc1nLY
Those Ambrosio rims. That <3Paris-Roubaix<3.
I love watching the likes of Contador and Froome killing it in the GT mountains, but Paris-Roubaix is my favorite race--21 days or otherwise--on the calendar. I'm biased, maybe, but I think this is the toughest day of racing on the calendar. Not even HItch's fantasy Giro stages can compare.
If I ride 40 miles with a change in bike as subtle as an integrated seatpost, I can feel the toll that the lost compliance has on my body. But with P-R, the whole race is... well, it's hell. Imagine what that would do.
Internet cycling places a great amount of emphasis on climbs, but doesn't always account for the hardships of surface. The fact that Paris-Roubaix's flat course creates such gaps every year should be a clue as to how difficult it is. And these gaps aren't just between also-rans, but between guys who are considered specialists.
It does seem as though this thread has shaken out with the GT fans on one side and the one-day fans on the other. Except for Jens. I don't understand your position, friend.
Those Ambrosio rims. That <3Paris-Roubaix<3.
I love watching the likes of Contador and Froome killing it in the GT mountains, but Paris-Roubaix is my favorite race--21 days or otherwise--on the calendar. I'm biased, maybe, but I think this is the toughest day of racing on the calendar. Not even HItch's fantasy Giro stages can compare.
If I ride 40 miles with a change in bike as subtle as an integrated seatpost, I can feel the toll that the lost compliance has on my body. But with P-R, the whole race is... well, it's hell. Imagine what that would do.
Internet cycling places a great amount of emphasis on climbs, but doesn't always account for the hardships of surface. The fact that Paris-Roubaix's flat course creates such gaps every year should be a clue as to how difficult it is. And these gaps aren't just between also-rans, but between guys who are considered specialists.
It does seem as though this thread has shaken out with the GT fans on one side and the one-day fans on the other. Except for Jens. I don't understand your position, friend.
mr. tibbs said:
I love both GT's and 1 day races, allthough I must add that P-R is likely to be the best racing day of the year or atleast among the best every year. Action starts with over 50km left. Give me another race that always has action from over 50km out?
Overall a GT is harder and I don't like the comparison with very hard moutainstages. They are different, but it's mostly the way they ride a GT stage compared to P-R.
Of course a race is only as hard as you race it. This is a reason a top GT stage will almost always be easier than a top one day race, seen independently from the rest of the GT.
There's only very few courses that are hard, no matter how hard you race it. As much as I like a Galibier/Alphe D'huez stage, as much as I love Omloop het Nieuwsblad etc. If you take those slow, they could become quite easy.
Not so for a Mortirolo stage, not so for PR. But since a Mortirolo stage is part of a GT, seen independently it will always be an easier race (and even if not, I still think PR is way harder, since those cobbles don't get easier when you take them slower)
There's only very few courses that are hard, no matter how hard you race it. As much as I like a Galibier/Alphe D'huez stage, as much as I love Omloop het Nieuwsblad etc. If you take those slow, they could become quite easy.
Not so for a Mortirolo stage, not so for PR. But since a Mortirolo stage is part of a GT, seen independently it will always be an easier race (and even if not, I still think PR is way harder, since those cobbles don't get easier when you take them slower)
Buffalo Soldier said:
They actually get worse the slower you go. If your speed drops going over them, it's extremely difficult to get it back. That's one reason why the gaps open over the difficult sectors.
As a general rule, there's no soft-pedaling over most of the sectors.
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