Why Tenerife?

[Digger]

The tests thing was in an article Walsh wrote did the times last year...around May.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

The tests thing was in an article Walsh wrote did the times last year...around May.

Thanks, I'll try and dig it out.

 

[Digger]

Thanks, I'll try and dig it out.

One test from eight visits was the figure...officially they told walsh they were disappointed with this of course.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

One test from eight visits was the figure...officially they told walsh they were disappointed with this of course.

How come they only got one. The riders just not turn up and take the missed test?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

This one is behind a paywall: http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/sport/cycling/article1230721.ece

 

[RownhamHill]

Still looking for details, but this seems pretty conclusive:



This is a story from October 2010. Remind me again when Sky kicked into top gear?

Wow "justice" is slow, eh?



http://www.islandconnections.eu/1000003/1000043/0/38832/daily-news-article.html


Hot damn. I must have missed that somewhere somehow wtf - Fuentes was [edit] / is living on the island next to the one containing Mt Teide - Team Sky's favourite volcano!?

I'm not following your logic - these aren't the same doping rings, are they?

 

[RownhamHill]

How come they only got one. The riders just not turn up and take the missed test?

I think it means that from eight visits Sky have made to Tenerife, the testers have only turned up once to do OOC tests. Not that testers made eight visits but only did one test.

 

[sniper]

so Sky's ZTP prohibits hiring former doping docs/cyclists (at least hypothetically), but does not prohibit training in one of the most exclusive doping hotspots.
ok.

 

[EnacheV]

so Sky's ZTP entails not hiring former doping docs/cyclists (at least hypothetically), but does not prevent them from training in one of the most exclusive doping hotspots.
ok.

so they should not race in Spain as its a former hotspot? The extrapolation is ridiculous?

They should race on the moon , terra is an exclusive doping hotspot.

Now i serious question, the stupid idea i addressed above is just a stupid idea:

What they do:

- bribe an airport employee to have access to all incoming lists ?
- have someone watching the airport 24/24 to spot via face software recognition the anti doping guys coming?

or how? im interested in the technical aspect. i'm sure someone can back up this wild assumptions.

 

[Digger]

I think it means that from eight visits Sky have made to Tenerife, the testers have only turned up once to do OOC tests. Not that testers made eight visits but only did one test.

This.......

 

[Digger]

so they should not race in Spain as its a former hotspot? The extrapolation is ridiculous?

They should race on the moon , terra is an exclusive doping hotspot.

Now i serious question, the stupid idea i addressed above is just a stupid idea:

What they do:

- bribe an airport employee to have access to all incoming lists ?
- have someone watching the airport 24/24 to spot via face software recognition the anti doping guys coming?

or how? im interested in the technical aspect. i'm sure someone can back up this wild assumptions.

Funny you should say that...was done previously.

 

[sniper]

so they should not race in Spain as its a former hotspot? The extrapolation is ridiculous?

They should race on the moon , terra is an exclusive doping hotspot.

Now i serious question, the stupid idea i addressed above is just a stupid idea:

What they do:

- bribe an airport employee to have access to all incoming lists ?
- have someone watching the airport 24/24 to spot via face software recognition the anti doping guys coming?

or how? im interested in the technical aspect. i'm sure someone can back up this wild assumptions.

avoiding tenerife is darn easy.
the argumentation for doing so is rather obvious within the context of ZTP.
it's a nobrainer, though not for you clearly.

 

[EnacheV]

avoiding tenerife is darn easy.
the argumentation for doing so is rather obvious within the context of ZTP.
it's a nobrainer, though not for you clearly.

so they should make their training plans according to your "tainted zone" meter , i see

a good business criterium

 

[sniper]

so they should make their training plans according to your "tainted zone" meter , i see

a good business criterium

what "meter" did they use for hiring certain docs and not others, or for firing certain staffmembers and not others? Indeed, there was no meter. Just the vague notion of ZTP.

In the context of this extremely vaguely defined ZTP, not going to tenerife would be as obvious as not hiring Leinders.

 

[Catwhoorg]

One test from eight visits was the figure...officially they told walsh they were disappointed with this of course.

My cite for this is the last paragraph of Chapter 5 of his book.

 

[Digger]

My cite for this is the last paragraph of Chapter 5 of his book.

Yea May article last year was mine

 

[King Boonen]

so they should not race in Spain as its a former hotspot? The extrapolation is ridiculous?

They should race on the moon , terra is an exclusive doping hotspot.

Now i serious question, the stupid idea i addressed above is just a stupid idea:

What they do:

- bribe an airport employee to have access to all incoming lists ?
- have someone watching the airport 24/24 to spot via face software recognition the anti doping guys coming?

or how? im interested in the technical aspect. i'm sure someone can back up this wild assumptions.

This was discussed ages ago and I posted some numbers showing how ridiculous it would be to suggest that Sky were watching airports to determine their doping program based on testers arriving. Basically, you have a huge number of flights coming into all the islands at varied times of the day during the whole year but particularly in the spring-summer, good transport between the islands by boat and a world where releasing passenger lists can land you in prison for longer than a serial killer (poetic license).

It is inconceivable that Sky would have the resources to monitor all access points to Tenerife and build any doping program around it. what would they do? Only dope after the morning flights? Evening flights? Avoid change-over days?


Tenerife is a perfect warm weather training camp for cyclists. It has brilliant access from all over Europe (That also works for getting to races from Tenerife) a vast array of amenities with good infrastructure and warm weather all year round. It then has the benefit of very high altitude which is easily accessible from a wide range of hotels resorts etc.

Tenerife is also politically stable and very close to Europe. It really is perfect.


Many of these reasons also make it a good place to go and dope too.


All this should mean that the testers should turn up, why they don't (if they don't) I don't know, but is most likely down to cost. It's high time that teams put more money into funding anti-doping.

What numbers would be interesting would be a comparison of the number of riders going to Tenerife and the number of tests compared to the number of riders going to other locations and the number of tests. I wouldn't be surprised to see that they are fairly similar, with a few less on Tenerife, but I don't know where to get that data.

 

[Armchaircyclist]

avoiding tenerife is darn easy.
the argumentation for doing so is rather obvious within the context of ZTP.
it's a nobrainer, though not for you clearly.

----------------

Can you give an example of a place to go to "avoid" Tenerife ?
I'm talking about winter training for a european-based team that would like
- warm temperatures to stay healthy.
- relatively short travel time
- similar food/culture to what they get at home.
- good roads, and long climbs into real altitude.

I'll be the first to say that sky is doping based on Froome and Wiggins, and the others that went to Tenerife. However, the location is good for training, every place in the world is just as good for doping. The only advantage I could see, is that a doping doctor could easily pass off as a tourist in a place like this. But most likely nobody would recognise even dr. Ferrari anywhere, it's not like doping doctors are celebrities.

 

[pastronef]

can the question be "why Gran Canaria" too? or is just Tenerife supposed to be a "doping" place?

Saxo-Tinkoff trained there, Brajkovic goes often there, last week Ryder with some Garmin teammates were in Gran Canaria.

 

[42x16ss]

----------------

Can you give an example of a place to go to "avoid" Tenerife ?
I'm talking about winter training for a european-based team that would like
- warm temperatures to stay healthy.
- relatively short travel time
- similar food/culture to what they get at home.
- good roads, and long climbs into real altitude.

I'll be the first to say that sky is doping based on Froome and Wiggins, and the others that went to Tenerife. However, the location is good for training, every place in the world is just as good for doping. The only advantage I could see, is that a doping doctor could easily pass off as a tourist in a place like this. But most likely nobody would recognise even dr. Ferrari anywhere, it's not like doping doctors are celebrities.

I've made a similar point earlier in the thread. The doctor(s) probably go there because it's such an excellent place to train. They can turn it into a one stop shop.

As a rider, why wouldn't you train your backside off somewhere warm, quiet, sunny with great roads, huge climbs and good hotels while you consult with your physician in peace, with limited interruptions from ADA's.

If I was a pro in the current system I know I probably would. Beats riding around on frozen European roads in early spring or sweating by the bucketload at the TDU.

 

[EnacheV]

Seems Contador learned well from Sky and now he is copying their scientific methods, including Tenerife

http://www.telegraaf.nl/premium/telesport/wielersport/22393632/__De_Jongh_trainer_Contador__.html

At some point , very soon, Sky will be recognized as the biggest turning point in cycling history

 

[sniper]

----------------

Can you give an example of a place to go to "avoid" Tenerife ?
I'm talking about winter training for a european-based team that would like
- warm temperatures to stay healthy.
- relatively short travel time
- similar food/culture to what they get at home.
- good roads, and long climbs into real altitude.

I'll be the first to say that sky is doping based on Froome and Wiggins, and the others that went to Tenerife. However, the location is good for training, every place in the world is just as good for doping. The only advantage I could see, is that a doping doctor could easily pass off as a tourist in a place like this. But most likely nobody would recognise even dr. Ferrari anywhere, it's not like doping doctors are celebrities.

i agree with you, tenerife is an excellent destination for the reasons u mention.
My point is slightly different though.
Afaict, avoiding tenerife as a training destination seems about as easy (or as difficult) as hiring docs without a cycling past.
So imo, within the context of skys ztp, avoiding tenerife would make as much sense as not hiring dodgy docs.
but then again the ztp of course is nothing more than hot air.

 

[Armchaircyclist]

Actually now, hiring sports doctors without a doping past should be quite easy. But finding a location as well suited to altitude training as Tenerife, would be quite hard. Ironically Tenerifes superiority is pointed out by Mr. Ferrari in this article on altitude-training:

http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=article&id=106

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The only advantage I could see, is that a doping doctor could easily pass off as a tourist in a place like this. But most likely nobody would recognise even dr. Ferrari anywhere, it's not like doping doctors are celebrities.

As posted up thread, Fuentes lives there, has done all his life.

 

[martinvickers]

As posted up thread, Fuentes lives there, has done all his life.

Fuentes Clinic was in Madrid, with the blood bags, was it not?