Why Tenerife?

[claveyrolat]

Why Tenerife? Because it is an island.
Why an island? Because everybody knows everybody.


I read (can't find the old link) about the track and fields team in Jamaica. Why did they all train there, rarely going out, always preparing in their homeland before big events?

Well, that's (partly) because when half a dozen white guys with medical stuff land at the airport, 5mns later the whole bloody island knows about it !!!

It might surprise some of you, but if you have ever lived on an island you know what i am talking about.


Same goes with Tenerife. There is one aiport.
You just need to know a couple of guys there, with photos of the anti-doping crew (just in case they dont stand out and try to camouflage)

Sorry about the triviality of my post, but i just felt that sometimes trying to find some elaborate answers makes you forget simple common sense.

 

[King Boonen]

Why Tenerife? Because it is an island.
Why an island? Because everybody knows everybody.


I read (can't find the old link) about the track and fields team in Jamaica. Why did they all train there, rarely going out, always preparing in their homeland before big events?

Well, that's (partly) because when half a dozen white guys with medical stuff land at the airport, 5mns later the whole bloody island knows about it !!!

It might surprise some of you, but if you have ever lived on an island you know what i am talking about.


Same goes with Tenerife. There is one aiport.
You just need to know a couple of guys there, with photos of the anti-doping crew (just in case they dont stand out and try to camouflage)

Sorry about the triviality of my post, but i just felt that sometimes trying to find some elaborate answers makes you forget simple common sense.

This has also come up before and is utter rubbish. Go and look up the number of visitors Tenerife gets each year.

Oh, and there are two airports.

 

[claveyrolat]

A group of doctors is gonna be spotted at the airport.
If not, they're gonna be spotted when they rent a car, or at the hotel.
If not, they're gonna be spotted at a fricking red light before arriving to the training camp.

Plain and simple!

 

[King Boonen]

A group of doctors is gonna be spotted at the airport.
If not, they're gonna be spotted when they rent a car, or at the hotel.
If not, they're gonna be spotted at a fricking red light before arriving to the training camp.

Plain and simple!

Testers are not doctors, they don't travel in packs and they don't wear distinguishing clothing. They don't get off the plane in white coats with stethascopes round their necks. Please explain how any team will be able to monitor a conservative estimate of 8,220 people a day?

Answer, they can't. They don't know the testers, they're not given a list with photos by the UCI and ADOs. You are talking utter rubbish.

 

[sittingbison]

n00b mistake

Move along please

Cheers
Bison

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Testers are not doctors, they don't travel in packs and they don't wear distinguishing clothing. They don't get off the plane in white coats with stethascopes round their necks. Please explain how any team will be able to monitor a conservative estimate of 8,220 people a day?

Answer, they can't. They don't know the testers, they're not given a list with photos by the UCI and ADOs. You are talking utter rubbish.

Until someone has been to the island and traveled to the hotel, when the pro teams are there, it's conjecture either way, IMO.

I don't think one person's opinion should necessarily be ridiculed in favour of another's.

As an example: how many of those tourists are flying in at 4-5am and traveling directly to the hotel by 6am to meet the whereabouts hours of most riders?

Given you cannot usually check in until 10am, any tourist arriving that early to the island would be doing something else in the morning to soak up some time. Conjecture again, but I have traveled overseas and that has been my experience.

Even if testers arrive a day early and stay elsewhere, they have to travel to the hotel at an ungodly hour. The car may stand out like the proverbial.

I agree on the whole stethoscopes and sample tubes dangling around the necks thing, but there are clearly advantages going to Tenerife beyond good weather and roads.

Further, if there are so many tourists day in day out on that tiny island, how is it a good training ground - surely there'd be copious quantities of traffic and cars getting in the way of the cyclists? Clearly not the case, so perhaps they stay near the beaches, with only the occasional visit to what is essentially a barren, unaesthetic location on top of the volcano. From a tourist perspective, I mean.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Not between October and June.
My question is: how they take the doping substances there? The reasonable answer is: by plane. But do they take that risk?
1. They can be busted at check in.
2. They can lose a bag full of doping products with Sky/Astana etc. name on it.

I found hard to believe that they go 1300 km from Spain with a dinghy just to deliver a bag of drugs.
This interview doesn't bring anything IMO. Just some randm guy's suspicions.

Tenerife is on a well used / known drug route - west Africa. I have witnessed coast guards patrolling this route from Portugal. It is a huge problem. Drug busts are common in southern Portugal sailing up from Africa.

And theres a lot of money in drug running.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Not between October and June.
My question is: how they take the doping substances there? The reasonable answer is: by plane. But do they take that risk?
1. They can be busted at check in.
2. They can lose a bag full of doping products with Sky/Astana etc. name on it.

I found hard to believe that they go 1300 km from Spain with a dinghy just to deliver a bag of drugs.
This interview doesn't bring anything IMO. Just some randm guy's suspicions.

You know Fuentes and his family lives there, yeah?

Armstrong and friends were buying or receiving EPO from Ferrari on Mt Teide, so the process of getting the drugs onto the island is a non-issue.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Epo

You know Fuentes and his family lives there, yeah? ...Armstrong and friends were buying or receiving EPO from Ferrari on Mt Teide, so the process of getting the drugs onto the island is a non-issue.

well even if Ferrari lived there he still has to get the Epo from somewhere - it doesnt grow on trees.

Found this though....

I have been carrying epo with me for over a year now on all plane trips. I always have a letter from my GP but nobody has ever asked for it and I’ve even stopped mentioning that I’m carrying it!

I pack my epo in a cool pack, cannot remember what it's called but it's essentially a fabric pocket that can house 2 injections. This is made of double layered fabric which contains really small grains of silicon that expand once wet. The pocket needs to be immersed in cold water for approx. 20-30 seconds so that the silicon grains can swell up and this will keep everything cool for up to 6-8 hours. The whole thing is then put into another fabric sleeve. When not using it let it dry out in air and store until next time.

I wonder if, when the silicon expands, this prevents the x-rays at the airport to actually see I’m carrying injections?

I bought this in a really good pharmacy in London, kept with all the other paraphernalia for diabetics who carry insulin, cost approx £12. .......

http://kidneypatientguide.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4472

 

[Parker]

Until someone has been to the island and traveled to the hotel, when the pro teams are there, it's conjecture either way, IMO.

I don't think one person's opinion should necessarily be ridiculed in favour of another's.

As an example: how many of those tourists are flying in at 4-5am and traveling directly to the hotel by 6am to meet the whereabouts hours of most riders?

Given you cannot usually check in until 10am, any tourist arriving that early to the island would be doing something else in the morning to soak up some time. Conjecture again, but I have traveled overseas and that has been my experience.

Even if testers arrive a day early and stay elsewhere, they have to travel to the hotel at an ungodly hour. The car may stand out like the proverbial.

I agree on the whole stethoscopes and sample tubes dangling around the necks thing, but there are clearly advantages going to Tenerife beyond good weather and roads.

Further, if there are so many tourists day in day out on that tiny island, how is it a good training ground - surely there'd be copious quantities of traffic and cars getting in the way of the cyclists? Clearly not the case, so perhaps they stay near the beaches, with only the occasional visit to what is essentially a barren, unaesthetic location on top of the volcano. From a tourist perspective, I mean.

They don't have to test them at 6am though. They can turn up anytime they like (between 6am and 11pm I believe). The 6am is just the usual choice for the one hour window when athletes must be where they say they are. Instead they can just turn up unannounced in the early evening and test a whole team's worth.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

They don't have to test them at 6am though. They can turn up anytime they like (between 6am and 11pm I believe). The 6am is just the usual choice for the one hour window when athletes must be where they say they are. Instead they can just turn up unannounced in the early evening and test a whole team's worth.

Yes, I know that. But the rider won't be there, will he? Ever read Tyler Hamilton's book?

In fact, the only recent tester / rider interaction we have heard about recently is when they finally made it to Colombia. Not only did they warn Henao that they were coming, but told him a couple of hours in advance.

If doing a random check is such an easy thing to do, why not do it with Henao?

Unless you've traveled all that way and have to get the sample that day and return to the lab / office / wherever.

We don't know.

To discount my scenario out of hand seems really short sighted.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

well even if Ferrari lived there he still has to get the Epo from somewhere - it doesnt grow on trees.

It doesn't grow on trees.

Well then.

Learn something new every day.

Huh.

 

[Parker]

Yes, I know that. But the rider won't be there, will he? Ever read Tyler Hamilton's book?

That's the same as everywhere else, then Hamilton hid behind the sofa at his house didn't he?
There's a pretty high likelihood of finding the riders there. It's a hotel on top of a volcano. There is nowhere else for them to go. Just walk in in the early evening and test who you find. It's not difficult. And then do the same two days later.
If a rider wants to hide, it's easier to do it at home in a town.

 

[McLovin]

Tenerife is on a well used / known drug route - west Africa. I have witnessed coast guards patrolling this route from Portugal. It is a huge problem. Drug busts are common in southern Portugal sailing up from Africa.

And theres a lot of money in drug running.

Ok, but can you image Sir Dave Brailsford waiting for a boat full of Monte Cristo like pirates and receiving from Jacopo some last generation doping products made in Oagadogou? And then also imploring that little skinny african to shut up for the rest of his life?
I maintain my opinion that it's not so easy to bring doping products to Tenerife. Maybe with Motoman's brother, the Canoeman.

 

[Netserk]

Ok, but can you image Sir Dave Brailsford waiting for a boat full of Monte Cristo like pirates and receiving from Jacopo some last generation doping products made in Oagadogou? And then also imploring that little skinny african to shut up for the rest of his life?
I maintain my opinion that it's not so easy to bring doping products to Tenerife. Maybe with Motoman's brother, the Canoeman.

What would stop a Spanish doctor transporting 'medicine' from Spain to Tenerife?

 

[thehog]

They don't have to test them at 6am though. They can turn up anytime they like (between 6am and 11pm I believe). The 6am is just the usual choice for the one hour window when athletes must be where they say they are. Instead they can just turn up unannounced in the early evening and test a whole team's worth.

Between 6am & 10pm. They cannot test.

The athlete only has to be where they said they would be at 6am. The rest they can move around, go cycling, catch planes etc. They do not have to be stationary in one spot or one location.

So if you were in Tiede you can just nominate the hotel & then to cycling for 7 hours.

But the point is well made. There is zero point testing on Tiede. Every drug test done there would be thrown out.

Froome knows this and that's why he said it.

The key really is to test about one week after you return to sea level. But of course riders will go to a race then and travel, meaning testing is going to be difficult on a moving target.

The system is a no brainer to beat.

 

[McLovin]

What would stop a Spanish doctor transporting 'medicine' from Spain to Tenerife?

Said it before. Risk of losing the baggage, check in, a journalist willing to make the story of his life, etc etc etc.
Earlier this month I was in Swiss and in front of me there were 3 cars stopped at the custom. They even checked their sandwiches. This could also happen in any airport. To many risks.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Ok, but can you image Sir Dave Brailsford waiting for a boat full of Monte Cristo like pirates and receiving from Jacopo some last generation doping products made in Oagadogou? And then also imploring that little skinny african to shut up for the rest of his life?
I maintain my opinion that it's not so easy to bring doping products to Tenerife. Maybe with Motoman's brother, the Canoeman.

Brailsford doesn't go to Tenerife.

There are shipments for the pharmacies on Tenerife probably every day.

Check out all the posts from this thread to debunk your misguided theories.

eg: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1415385&postcount=91

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Said it before. Risk of losing the baggage, check in, a journalist willing to make the story of his life, etc etc etc.
Earlier this month I was in Swiss and in front of me there were 3 cars stopped at the custom. They even checked their sandwiches. This could also happen in any airport. To many risks.

This is way OT. You should check out this thread: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18691

 

[Netserk]

Said it before. Risk of losing the baggage, check in, a journalist willing to make the story of his life, etc etc etc.
Earlier this month I was in Swiss and in front of me there were 3 cars stopped at the custom. They even checked their sandwiches. This could also happen in any airport. To many risks.

What's the risk? A doctor carries medicine from one part of Spain to another. So what if he once in a while is checked in customs? He's just carrying medicine.

 

[McLovin]

Brailsford doesn't go to Tenerife.

There are shipments for the pharmacies on Tenerife probably every day.

Check out all the posts from this thread to debunk your misguided theories.

eg: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1415385&postcount=91

IMO doping this days differs very much from doping 10 years ago. They must be using as less as possible people now. Sheryl Crow is taking a different plane now, not the same with the transfusions going on.

 

[McLovin]

What's the risk? A doctor carries medicine from one part of Spain to another. So what if he once in a while is checked in customs? He's just carrying medicine.

Like miss Rumsas? She also had a very sick mother.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

IMO doping this days differs very much from doping 10 years ago. They must be using as less as possible people now. Sheryl Crow is taking a different plane now, not the same with the transfusions going on.

I am guessing you didn't even read the post I linked to.

A shame.

 

[McLovin]

I am guessing you didn't even read the post I linked to.

A shame.

The Guardia Civil have arrested 34 people in Tenerife and Gran Canaria on suspicion of running a doping ring that has been illegally selling a clenbuterol-based product. Those arrested have been charged with fraud and crimes against public health.

Among those arrested were 13 pharmacists, eight pharmacy assistants, nine veterinarians, a cattle-breeder, a pharmaceutical salesman, a bodybuilder and a cyclist.

 

[thehog]

Said it before. Risk of losing the baggage, check in, a journalist willing to make the story of his life, etc etc etc.
Earlier this month I was in Swiss and in front of me there were 3 cars stopped at the custom. They even checked their sandwiches. This could also happen in any airport. To many risks.

You're comparing the Swiss to the Spanish?!?

Brave man. Like night and day.