Why Tenerife?

[gillan1969]

It would be pretty easy for WADA to find out what the latest sophisticated programs are.

stop the press...so the old adage that the cheaters are ahead of the testers is bunkum? or am i missing some heavy sarcasm

 

[Benotti69]

stop the press...so the old adage that the cheaters are ahead of the testers is bunkum? or am i missing some heavy sarcasm

No sarcasm. Tenerife is an example. Few tested and big teams like Sky and Astana not tested.

Plenty of riders have told all about their doping.

 

[Parker]

but probably there aren't as many flights leaving from Tenerife as there are from Miami or Dallas.
Anyway, where does your confidence in USA andtidoping come from? You seem to use it as a yardstick for successful antidoping testing.

My point has nothing to do with the USA. I was using it as example of major cities that that are just as distant from a testing lab as Tenerife. I could have said Rio de Janeiro or Shanghai or Mumbai or Perth or hundreds of other major cities. The point is that Tenerife isn't the remote inaccessable island that many characterize it as.

 

[gillan1969]

No sarcasm. Tenerife is an example. Few tested and big teams like Sky and Astana not tested.

Plenty of riders have told all about their doping.

yes...and we know that with resources and science you can beat any test out there...all you need is some doctors, to yo-yo between altitude and back and have a whole raft of debilitating illnesses....

 

[Parker]

There are 13 flights a week from Madrid to Tenerife South

There's ten a day to Tenerife North

 

[sniper]

There's ten a day to Tenerife North

is that more or less than from Miami and Dallas?

 

[Parker]

is that more or less than from Miami and Dallas?

More than Miami, less than Dallas. To a city with a testing centre - Montreal or LA for Miami (Montreal is closer, but more flights to LA), LA for Dallas

 

[sniper]

More than Miami, less than Dallas. To a city with a testing centre - Montreal or LA for Miami (Montreal is closer, but more flights to LA), LA for Dallas

thanks, fair enough.

 

[DFA123]

Tenerife is easily accessible for testers, but what is the point of them going there? They can find passport irregularities in the riders, but there is no way they can do anything with them. If, for example, they find that a rider who has been staying in the Parador at 2,000m for a couple of weeks has much higher than normal hct, they have no way of knowing whether that is down to altitude or doping. It provides the perfect cover. There are nowhere near enough studies and research into the long and short term effects of altitude training for the testers to really go after a rider.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Take urine, look for recovery type products, HGH or EPO

Take steroid passport samples.


Just be seen to be testing there which may have a limiting effect of subsequent team visits.

If it becomes a place where regular testing occurs, and teams start going elsewhere, well maybe that answers a few questions.

 

[thehog]

Tenerife is easily accessible for testers, but what is the point of them going there? They can find passport irregularities in the riders, but there is no way they can do anything with them. If, for example, they find that a rider who has been staying in the Parador at 2,000m for a couple of weeks has much higher than normal hct, they have no way of knowing whether that is down to altitude or doping. It provides the perfect cover. There are nowhere near enough studies and research into the long and short term effects of altitude training for the testers to really go after a rider.

Exactly. And Froome pretending to be anti-doping was taking the p1ss.

 

[sniper]

Take urine, look for recovery type products, HGH or EPO

Take steroid passport samples.


Just be seen to be testing there which may have a limiting effect of subsequent team visits.

If it becomes a place where regular testing occurs, and teams start going elsewhere, well maybe that answers a few questions.

+1
10chars

 

[sniper]

Excellent

So you'd agree that Froome's call for more testing on Tenerife was because he knew he was about to be cheated by doper Nibali and doper Contador ...what other explanation could there be?

Mark L

if he'd do that more regularly and on a more structural basis, yes it would be a very good sign.
if it is limited to that one tweet, i will be inclined to think it was nothing more than a slick PR move. (a welcome PR move though: I like how it embarrassed UCI.)

 

[ebandit]

Plenty of riders have told all about their doping.

If that is true you'll be ready to give us their names won't you

Mark L

 

[ebandit]

if he'd do that more regularly and on a more structural basis, yes it would be a very good sign.
if it is limited to that one tweet, i will be inclined to think it was nothing more than a slick PR move. (a welcome PR move though: I like how it embarrassed UCI.)

Keep going......follow through with that train of thought......why would he want to embarrass the UCI???

Mark L

 

[sniper]

Keep going......follow through with that train of thought......why would he want to embarrass the UCI???
Mark L

i think primary motive was PR and that embarrassing the UCI was collateral, calculated. (imo he knows UCI aint gonna bust him anyway)
what do you think?
is it evidence that he's clean?

 

[thehog]

i think primary motive was PR and that embarrassing the UCI was collateral, calculated. (imo he knows UCI aint gonna bust him anyway)
what do you think?
is it evidence that he's clean?

Froome already blamed the UCI in the Kimmidge interview. What a nutter. With a passport like his

 

[ebandit]

i think primary motive was PR and that embarrassing the UCI was collateral, calculated. (imo he knows UCI aint gonna bust him anyway)
what do you think?
is it evidence that he's clean?

If he is clean then it is evidence that he is clean......but if he is dirty it isn't so clear as to what it is.

The problem is that it did humiliate the UCI very openly and very publically and that doesn't sit very comfortably with the notion that is often repeated on this forum that Froome dopes with impunity because he has the secret protection of the UCI.....so which is it? Does he have the protection of the UCI or doesn't he? ....because whichever stance you take calls into question arguments that have routinely been accepted here as 'fact'.

A doper without UCI protection would be highly unwise to poke the bees nest with a big stick.....but it would be equally unwise for a doper WITH protection to humiliate the organisation that protects him........if I had red-flanders sense of logic I would be saying "therefore the only conclusion we can come to is that he is clean"

Actually one possibility is that he is clean NOW......and personally that would fit in with how his performance has dipped in relation to Nibali and especially Contador......

.......like the rest of you I don't know and as interesting as it is to speculate it is also likely to be wrong as so many assumptions are involved

Mark L

 

[Arnout]

My point has nothing to do with the USA. I was using it as example of major cities that that are just as distant from a testing lab as Tenerife. I could have said Rio de Janeiro or Shanghai or Mumbai or Perth or hundreds of other major cities. The point is that Tenerife isn't the remote inaccessable island that many characterize it as.

It's *** this argument that Tenerife is the most remote place on earth. As has been stated, you can fly to Tenerife from Madrid nearly every hour of the day in addition to many other destinations. It's one of the most popular tourist destinations, I bet every common tourist is the sort of backpacker that likes to go to places no-one ever went before. All 10 million of them, on an island where you can travel from North to South in an hour (and I have done this myself). Despite the small size and the small driving distance, there are two major airports with connections to Spain and Europe. It's also the premier year-round beach destination, meaning there isn't a drop in flights in winter. In fact winter is high season.

But it's remote and inaccessible because the clinic decided it is. It's because of these f***** irritating straw man arguments that the clinic will never be taken seriously and not because the clinic is the only place in cycling where doping is discussed as the regulars pat themselves on the back for.

Rant over.

 

[Benotti69]

If that is true you'll be ready to give us their names won't you

Mark L

Jesus Manzano
Jorge Jaschke
Floyd Landis
Tyler Hamilton
Thomas Frei
Danilo Di Luca
Filipo Simeoni
Bernard Kohl
Michael Rasmussen
Most of USPS

to name a few.........

 

[Benotti69]

Tyler Hamilton (2012): "I never did get tested on Tenerife, no. I can't imagine anyone got tested there."

http://www.bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2012-tyler-hamilton-interview-transcript

No wonder teams love Tenerife, the weather, the roads, the scenery and oh and the lack of testing......

 

[ebandit]

Jesus Manzano
Jorge Jaschke
Floyd Landis
Tyler Hamilton
Thomas Frei
Danilo Di Luca
Filipo Simeoni
Bernard Kohl
Michael Rasmussen
Most of USPS

to name a few.........

Apologies..... Misunderstood your previous post

Mark L

 

[sniper]

It's *** this argument that Tenerife is the most remote place on earth. As has been stated, you can fly to Tenerife from Madrid nearly every hour of the day in addition to many other destinations. It's one of the most popular tourist destinations, I bet every common tourist is the sort of backpacker that likes to go to places no-one ever went before. All 10 million of them, on an island where you can travel from North to South in an hour (and I have done this myself). Despite the small size and the small driving distance, there are two major airports with connections to Spain and Europe. It's also the premier year-round beach destination, meaning there isn't a drop in flights in winter. In fact winter is high season.

But it's remote and inaccessible because the clinic decided it is. It's because of these f***** irritating straw man arguments that the clinic will never be taken seriously and not because the clinic is the only place in cycling where doping is discussed as the regulars pat themselves on the back for.

Rant over.

distance/remoteness/(in)accessability of Tenerife has been discussed quite openly throughout the thread (not just past coupla pages), but only as one of many possible reasons why the place is loved by cyclists.
and i don't recall anybody stubbornly insisting on the remoteness argument.

is that more or less than from Miami and Dallas?

More than Miami, less than Dallas. To a city with a testing centre - Montreal or LA for Miami (Montreal is closer, but more flights to LA), LA for Dallas

thanks, fair enough.

see?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

the clinic will never be taken seriously

lolololololololololololololololol

It will only be taken seriously when doping is taken seriously. Not because yet again a poster does not like what people post about or how.

 

[Arnout]

distance/remoteness/(in)accessability of Tenerife has been discussed quite openly throughout the thread (not just past coupla pages), but only as one of many possible reasons why the place is loved by cyclists.
and i don't recall anybody stubbornly insisting on the remoteness argument.



see?

Then why is the same question still being asked years after the topic was created?

lolololololololololololololololol

It will only be taken seriously when doping is taken seriously. Not because yet again a poster does not like what people post about or how.

I'm sorry, together with Echoes you are one of the two persons on this forum I can't take seriously on any level.