Wiggins versus Geraint Thomas

[blackcat]

When defending Wiggins, the common refutation is invoking his IP dominance. Which I pointed out the the flaws in before.

Well Geraint Thomas just beat Wiggins pb in Manchester qualifiers. He went about 4'15 flat.

Great time, congrats G.

But I want to see some defend Thomas when he makes the podium of the Tour on the back of a smoking IP.

Thomas was about 10 months younger than Wiggins when he did his pb in Athens. About the same age, Wiggins went 4'17" high, but anyone with inkling of track knowledge appreciates the tracks can vary in speed over a 4km IP by 3-4 seconds from very fast to slow (indoor tracks that is).

Think everyone knows the IP was a pretty weak depth event. But there have been many riders sub 4'20" that have done jack $hit on the road. Some have excelled on the road also but not gone head to head because they have had a different focus.

Thomas, Wiggins, Phinney, Mcgee, Huizenga, Sergent, Bartko, Roulston, Bobridge, Clancy, Escobar, Cornu, Hayles, Roberts, Markov, Manning, Dyudya, Lehmann.

Pity for Phinney, Thomas, Bobridge, Kuperasov, and Hepburn there is no 2012 London IP. I think Phinney will break Boardman's illegal position time on a fast track. It is 4'11.1" for reference. I reckon Cancellara would go sub 4'10" with a few months adaptation.

 

[blackcat]

Thomas beat Cornu in the final by catch. After 3km.

His time thru 3km was close to a second faster than the morning qualifier, only question is when he got Cornu's slipstream.

Thomas will have Phinney's measure at worlds now.

 

[blackcat]

one other thing on G Thomas v Wiggins.

Brailsford and Sutton gave Cavendish a chance to ride the IP in Beijing with try out efforts in the training camps in Manchester. Thomas' attempt was in June or May, and he hit either 4'16" or 4'17" was the word. Cavendish' attempt was after the Tour, and he sucked, I don't think he hit 4'22" which was one of the benchmarks set.

Brailsford and Sutton decided Thomas should be kept in reserve for the teams pursuit as he was one of the driving engines, and they wanted the gold in the teams first, and figure Wiggins was a certainty. Steven Burke got the bronze in the end.

In hindsight, Thomas probably can see he should have had 2 gold from last years Olympics, if he thinks he could have taken Wiggins in the individual pursuit.

If Thomas beat Wiggins, then his reputation and the justification for his 4th on GC at the Tour, is somewhat undermined. The 4th could have been third, if you net out the day the field split on the flat when Armstrong got 40 seconds or so.

Thomas is a classy rider. u19 Roubaix, Fleche de Sud as a 19yo.

 

[Ferminal]

Nice thoughts, I think you've successfully refuted claims that Wiggins' GC performance was inevitable given his IP times.

 

[progressor]

Nice thoughts, I think you've successfully refuted claims that Wiggins' GC performance was inevitable given his IP times.

Who claimed that?

 

[Mellow Velo]

Considering that was only Thomas's third IP and he might have gone 4'-14", had he not pulled up after catching Cornu, I'd say he could get close to Boardman's 4'-11", sometime in the not too distant future.
Manchester isn't the fastest track in the World.
2007: Youngest rider to start the Tour, which he finished.
Still only 23.......

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

I moved this to a more appropriate forum.

Susan

 

[blackcat]

Considering that was only Thomas's third IP and he might have gone 4'-14", had he not pulled up after catching Cornu, I'd say he could get close to Boardman's 4'-11", sometime in the not too distant future.
Manchester isn't the fastest track in the World.
2007: Youngest rider to start the Tour, which he finished.
Still only 23.......

disagree. Thomas is about 71kg I think.

In 2006 as a 20yo he went 4.28.539 in the British Nationals in October. Qualified in 4.32.229.

Caveat ofcourse is the preparation and training, plus the speed of the track.

Phinney at 18 and a half did about 4'15" in Copenhagen. And he is about 82kg and he also has a 1'01" kilo, so he will be able to turn a big gear, and doubtful Thomas could get on top of that gear ratio.

And two other Australians did mid 20's as young 18yos. Dennis about 18 and a half did 4'26 at Oceania champs, and at National Champs Freiberg did 4'27" only 4 months after his 18th.

So I don't think Thomas can go much faster, to take out the WR. Phinney on the other hand, I can see him beating it, the only question is, if he bothers with the track now they are taking away the London gold medal. He might just stuff it, and go full time on the road. He already has one World Champs. Although I think Thomas can take him this coming season.

 

[Ferminal]

I moved this to a more appropriate forum.

Susan

Or would that have been track?

Who claimed that?

No one, but it's often used as one of a number of explanations, the list of previous IP superstars is interesting (seeing what they went on to achieve on the road).

 

[R.0.t.O]

Brailsford and Sutton decided Thomas should be kept in reserve for the teams pursuit as he was one of the driving engines, and they wanted the gold in the teams first, and figure Wiggins was a certainty. Steven Burke got the bronze in the end.

In hindsight, Thomas probably can see he should have had 2 gold from last years Olympics, if he thinks he could have taken Wiggins in the individual pursuit.

Simple team tactics really; Wiggins vs Thomas in the IP final would have been an almighty scrap with both riders going right to the limit. They get the gold and silver, but at what cost to the TP? It wasn't just a question of holding Gez back but also minimising the competition for Wiggins.

Thomas is a classy rider. u19 Roubaix, Fleche de Sud as a 19yo.

Amen to that. I rode and raced against the guy when he was in young teens; looking back it was a privilege to get such a kicking from a guy that would go on to be so good.

 

[blackcat]

Simple team tactics really; Wiggins vs Thomas in the IP final would have been an almighty scrap with both riders going right to the limit. They get the gold and silver, but at what cost to the TP? It wasn't just a question of holding Gez back but also minimising the competition for Wiggins.



Amen to that. I rode and raced against the guy when he was in young teens; looking back it was a privilege to get such a kicking from a guy that would go on to be so good.

yep, understand why Burke got the ride, as a wildcard more so than a medal chance, and Thomas knew he was guaranteed a gold in the teams.

Thomas v Wiggins in the IP would have compromised the teams, Thomas' one guarantee, plus Wiggins probably had something up his sleeve, if he went mano a mano with Thomas.

Then Burke has to come in, or Hayles/Newton, for the teams preliminary rounds. Which compromises the seeding. And Hayles did not get a spot, so more spots allocated to male track sprint, instead of the track endurance guys getting it.