Will Contador Keep his 2011 Results? (If he is found guilty by CAS)

[Jamsque]

Yeah he doped. And more importantly he got caught. So he should get a suspension. A 2 year ban.

Tricking him into riding the Giro go through that immense pain, then turning round and saying "Suuuuuucker!!!!", does not fit the crime.

And what of his team. All those riders who did not get caught, who are going to go to the Giro, go through immense pain for the team, leave it all on the line.

And in the end get nothing. No prize money, no World Tour points, nothing.

What did they ever do?

If they want to punish him ban him now OR after. Then he can get his just 2 years, and not a far harsher punishement.

Of course the system is *** and broken in many ways, but it is not the responsibility of the UCI to protect Contador's teammates from his actions. If they sweat and toil to get him a Giro title that is taken away a month later, it is Contador's fault and no-one else.

 

[boomcie]

Your the one not making any sence.

Valverde was caught in 2006 so if your opinions were more consistant you would ask why he didnt have his 2006 and 7 results taken away. FW, LBL, Vuelta podium.

Because after all you want Contador to get strictly 2 years from the positive. but you say it was ok to let Valverdes ban start 4 years later.

If Valverdes ban can start late why cant Contadors?

Because Contador was caught on an exact moment in time and also suspended relatively "soon" afterwards.

Valverde can't just lose his results from 06-07 and keep riding his bike, that's silly . That's not a suspension.

 

[The Hitch]

Believe me, he knows the pitfalls.

If your going to guess what Contador does and doesnt know, then I will take a stab to.

Hes looking around at doping among gc contenders, hes seeing who is ready to pounce and claim his fall will represent the new era of cycling and hes thinking


"You want me to be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine?

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit"

 

[boomcie]

If your going to guess what Contador does and doesnt know, then I will take a stab to.

Hes looking around at doping among gc contenders, hes seeing who is ready to pounce and claim his fall will represent the new era of cycling and hes thinking


"You want me to be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine?

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit"





That would be nice.

It's not a guess. His lawyers will have informed him by now about the likeliness of losing all his results after TdF 2010, they are not amateurs.

 

[hrotha]

Could we have the title changed to "keep his 2011 results" to avoid any discussion about how he won't win the Giro with Rujano on the loose? Also for clarity.

 

[boomcie]

This isn't about the logic, this is about the rules.

On the other hand, it could be argued that an official governing body cleared him to ride, so it's not his fault if that decision is later found to be wrong and he shouldn't pay for it.

If that (pathetic) decission was wrong and he is therefore guilty, why shoudn't he pay?

 

[hrotha]

If that (pathetic) decission was wrong and he is therefore guilty, why shoudn't he pay?

He should pay for his doping, but not punished for what his federation screwed up. Anyway, I'm saying that could be argued, not that I'd argue it. I don't care either way, I just want to figure out the rules and know if there's any precedent other than Valverde.

 

[Eshnar]

Since I really hate all this clinic stuff, I'm going to have a brief analysis of all the stages.

Stage 1 - Quite short TTT, I don't think there will be more than 1 minute between all the gc guys
Stage 2 - Sprint. Definitely. Cav FTW
Stage 3 - This stage is the first trap of the race... The Giro comes near my place with two small bumps in the end. Madonna Delle Grazie isn't that easy. I can see an Androni (or Scarponi & Nibali, why not) attacking here and gaining 20/30 seconds. If not, breakaway FTW.
Stage 4 - A sprinter that can survive to Castellaccio should win the stage.
Stage 5 - This has a huge "???" written upon it. If someone attacks on the Croce Di Figline, it'll be epic. But it depends by many factors (weather and gc above all). If not, I can see a small 10-15 gc group sprinting for the win.
Stage 6 - Breakaway... I don't think sprinters will be able to handle this.
Stage 7 - First MTF, short stage... 15-20 gc guys together and maybe an Androni escaping at the beginning of the final climb.
Stage 8 - A fast climber could win this. I bet on Di Luca (it's his best chance imho)
Stage 9 - I have huge expectation for this stage.... just hope Etna stays quiet those days. There won't be more than 3 gc guys sprinting for the win. But more probly, it'll be a solo victory.
Stage 10 - Sprint. Nice and easy.
Stage 11 - Other "???".... I'd love to see some crazy escapes, the stage is short.
Stage 12 - Sprint
Stage 13 - I don't think there will happen much. The gc guys will stare at each other. Maybe a disgraced gc guy (3-4 minutes behind the leader) could win the stage.
Stage 14 - Awesome epicness. Whoever can't make top 5 in this stage won't win the Giro. Simple.
Stage 15 - The race will explode on the Fedaia. Let's hope for a great stage, but there's the possibility that everyone will wait for the final climb.
Stage 16 - MTT.... who knows.
Stage 17 - Breakaway FTW. Maybe a good descender will attack on Aprica.
Stage 18 - Breakaway.
Stage 19 - 5/10 gc guys finishing together
Stage 20 - 90% chance that whoever tops Finestre first will win the Giro. The 10% remaining refers to the possibility he cracks on the way to Sestriere, or falls in the descent.
Stage 21 - Final ITT, I don't think it'll be decisive. Maybe it will for the podium.

edit: Maybe I should have put it in the Giro thread... I'll do it now.

 

[The Hitch]

I just want to figure out the rules and know if there's any precedent other than Valverde.

Is the answer not maybe at the top of the Pro road racing sub forum?

 

[luckyboy]

This is all pretty pointless seeing as he'll be 6 minutes down on Denis in Milan.

 

[roundabout]

Is the answer not maybe at the top of the Pro road racing sub forum?

You mean Dekker?

 

[hrotha]

You mean Dekker?

Yeah, I'm wondering too. He's not the same case as CAS wasn't involved, but apparently he didn't lose his post-December 2007 results, did he?

 

[Lanark]

Yeah, I'm wondering too. He's not the same case as CAS wasn't involved, but apparently he didn't lose his post-December 2007 results, did he?

He lost all his results from 24-12-2007 on, so legally speaking he was pretty much banned for 3.5 years. I do think that's exceptional, and Dekker's case was a re-testing an old sample, Contador is (outside of all the picogram stuff) a pretty standard doping case compared to that.

 

[Michael Brown]

If the CAS rules against him, I'd like for them to throw out the 2010 TdF results, then ban him 2 years starting from the date that CAS rules.

Let him keep his results from racing after the RFEC cleared him. If he wins the Giro, he wins it. But don't throw out his result just because the RFEC decision was overturned and he "shouldn't have been racing".

 

[luckyboy]

I don't see how it is possible that he would keep any of his results if the ban would begin after the Tour (with the Tour result also gone). Thing is, surely if the Tour win is lost, then the ban would theoretically begin at the start of July.

Don't get how he can be banned for however long and in addition to that have his Tour taken away.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Isn't that what's happened to TV and FP?

I assume that Dertie can't have a backdated ban because he's been riding this time. He's gambling massively that he will be cleared.

 

[Lanark]

I don't see how it is possible that he would keep any of his results if the ban would begin after the Tour (with the Tour result also gone). Thing is, surely if the Tour win is lost, then the ban would theoretically begin at the start of July.

Don't get how he can be banned for however long and in addition to that have his Tour taken away.

You always lose the results of the race you tested positive, usually the ban starts from the start of the preliminary suspension, that's almost always the date of the positive, but I believe that in Contador's case that was early August. If CAS finds him guilty, it should be the case that his suspension starts in August 2010, and he loses the 2010 Tour.

After that it becomes trickier, either the ban is from August 2010 until August 2012, with him losing the results he got this year (and losing the 2010 Tour), or he will be banned from the date of the CAS-verdict (probably July of this year), minus the months he was already suspended (August-Februari, still losing the 2010 Tour). Of course, they could just make their own judgement, like in the Valverde case, which just seemed to be something the CAS-panel thought appopriate.

 

[hrotha]

He lost all his results from 24-12-2007 on, so legally speaking he was pretty much banned for 3.5 years. I do think that's exceptional, and Dekker's case was a re-testing an old sample, Contador is (outside of all the picogram stuff) a pretty standard doping case compared to that.

Oh, ok. My only way to check if his results had been scrapped was CQ Ranking.
Thanks.

 

[skippy]

Maybe i am being simplistic and bloody minded BUT this high profile case serves as the "perfect storm" !
Should CAS decide Contador is Guilty then :
the desire of UCI to have 4year bans should be imposed from that decision date !
All results from start of 2010 TDF be nullified .

Clearly those who decide that "Sporting Fraud " is a game worth playing need a clear message that shows them that they are playing with fire .

Should what i am proposing eventuate :
WHO will want to ride on a team that will lose their points and bonuses ?

Which Sponsors will want to be seen associated with this sort of disaster ?

What team will invest Time , Money , Energy betting on their man may escape a suspension .

Racers will ask themselves , "what price my pride"

 

[TERMINATOR]

Yeah he doped. And more importantly he got caught. So he should get a suspension. A 2 year ban.

Tricking him into riding the Giro go through that immense pain, then turning round and saying "Suuuuuucker!!!!", does not fit the crime.

And what of his team. All those riders who did not get caught, who are going to go to the Giro, go through immense pain for the team, leave it all on the line.

And in the end get nothing. No prize money, no World Tour points, nothing.

So you think when Contador is eventually stripped of a win at last year's Tour de France (oh yes he will be), the guy who got second place won't get the first place prize money and the UCI points that go along with it?

Interesting. Also incorrect.

 

[scribe]

He won't be found guilty

 

[M Sport]

Mod Edit: This discussion is from the Giro thread in PRR concerning whether or not Contador will (or should) keep his wins if banned.


Winner right there.

btw are we picking for winner on the road, or in the record books in a few months time?

Moderator, Why did you start a thread in the clinic under my name? I was posting about the result of the Giro in the road I linked a video of Contador and then made the simple comment hat he would win ... but added are we picking winner on the road.

There is no way I would ever ask the thread question you have given it "Will Contador Keep his 2011 Results? (If he is found guilty by CAS)" When I already answered that question for someone two weeks ago in the Giro TV ad thread. As below. Can you delete the opening post of mine you have used to start the thread. Thanks.

Re the rest of your post. CAS will decide. It's quite a simple formula though and I will try to quickly summarise it for you.

If CAS overturn the decision and ban him for more than 9 months + i.e. roughly up until today or longer he will lose all results between and including the TDF and now. If he is banned for 6-7 months or less he will keep the results (except TdF) as he had already served the time.

Basso etc aren't comparable, they served a full term and didn't resume racing until after the ban.

 

[Benotti69]

his performance is this years giro seems to be someone a level or 2 above everyone else and where did we see that before, the 90s and 00s.

A rider making hay while the sun shines, knowing that it might rain in a few weeks?