• We're giving away a Cyclingnews water bottle! Find out more here!

Windy Mountain

So apparently the wind there on one day was like this:



The 6-7km from CR is a strong SE vector. It's not possible for it to be a tailwind and a headwind. There may be a point in the road where it is either of these due to the fact that it's not a straight line, but it would seem difficult to have a tailwind for the first 3km and a headwind for the final 3km.

From Saint-Esteve to CR it's pretty irrelevant given the shelter, but again it would seem extraordinary to have a SW Saint-Esteve-CR, a SE for 3km from CR and a NW for 3km to the finish.

Even if it was a straight southerly (180) which would mean cross-tail on both sections it wouldn't be more than 50% of the climb given that the straight tailwind angles for the two sections are say 225 and 135. So for the 15-16km from Saint-Esteve if we assume consistent conditions it's impossible to say that the climb was done under straight tailwind conditions for more than 50% and that is mostly true for the two constituent parts of the climb.
 
I think it's described like this:



Apparently the tailwind followed Froome the whole way up. On each turn.

When you really want it to be a tailwind. It will be a tailwind.

It keeps you from looking what's underneath.
 
Sep 29, 2012
8,087
0
0
Great image, Ferminal.

Clearly the climb was subject to a ... vortex. I am still investigating if DrMaserati was present or his posts were being read anywhere in the vicinity.

Here's an image of a solution to the variable wind direction conundrum.

 
Aug 13, 2009
11,354
0
0
Ferminal said:
So apparently the wind there on one day was like this:



The 6-7km from CR is a strong SE vector. It's not possible for it to be a tailwind and a headwind. There may be a point in the road where it is either of these due to the fact that it's not a straight line, but it would seem difficult to have a tailwind for the first 3km and a headwind for the final 3km.

From Saint-Esteve to CR it's pretty irrelevant given the shelter, but again it would seem extraordinary to have a SW Saint-Esteve-CR, a SE for 3km from CR and a NW for 3km to the finish.

Even if it was a straight southerly (180) which would mean cross-tail on both sections it wouldn't be more than 50% of the climb given that the straight tailwind angles for the two sections are say 225 and 135. So for the 15-16km from Saint-Esteve if we assume consistent conditions it's impossible to say that the climb was done under straight tailwind conditions for more than 50% and that is mostly true for the two constituent parts of the climb.
the prevailing wisdom of the forum is the wind was from the SE, resulting in Crosswinds for the last 3-4 km.

If that is the case what is the prevailing wind for the first 16km of the 21km climb?

Pretty simple, it was a tail wind for the vast majority of the climb.
 
Race Radio said:
the prevailing wisdom of the forum is the wind was from the SE, resulting in Crosswinds for the last 3-4 km.

If that is the case what is the prevailing wind for the first 16km of the 21km climb?

Pretty simple, it was a tail wind for the vast majority of the climb.
Is that the same simple on how you got 12% from Froome to Mayo's time up Ventoux? When in fact it's 5% :rolleyes:

Why is it so important to you that there was a tailwind?

If you know Porte. Ask him. Tell us all. From the inside.
 
For what it's worth, I remember hearing and saying during the stage itself that there had been a tailwind for most of the climb, or at least a wind pattern that was more favourable than usual on Mont Ventoux.
 
Oct 16, 2010
13,578
1
0
Race Radio said:
the prevailing wisdom of the forum is the wind was from the SE, resulting in Crosswinds for the last 3-4 km.

If that is the case what is the prevailing wind for the first 16km of the 21km climb?

Pretty simple, it was a tail wind for the vast majority of the climb.
as i linked earlier, ten dam suggested that he rode the last 5 km of the climb with "volle wind op kop" 'full head wind':

In de slotfase hield hij de schade beperkt. "Nu ben ik op vijf kilometer voor de meet tempo gaan rijden. Ik dacht dat vol te kunnen houden tot de top. Contador kon dat niet, die heeft zich over zijn theewater gereden," aldus Ten Dam. "Er stond vol wind op kop. Dan is het niet leuk om op kop te rijden."
he might have exaggerated so as to accentuate his own performance, but still this is what he said.
 
Race Radio said:
the prevailing wisdom of the forum is the wind was from the SE, resulting in Crosswinds for the last 3-4 km.

If that is the case what is the prevailing wind for the first 16km of the 21km climb?

Pretty simple, it was a tail wind for the vast majority of the climb.
Which part of the climb is most exposed?
 
Aug 13, 2009
11,354
0
0
sniper said:
as i linked earlier, ten dam suggested that he rode the last 5 km of the climb with "volle wind op kop" 'full head wind':


he might have exaggerated so as to accentuate his own performance, but still this is what he said.
I have been pretty clear that the last 2-3 km is very exposed to wind. As you can see by the map it would have head, cross, and tail. Ten Dam would likely have felt a lot of this as he was pulling for much of that IIRC That does not change the fact that 80% of the climb had a tailwind. There was 16-17km of tailwind. Some is less exposed, some of it is more exposed....but the vast majority of the climb had a tailwind.

Stating that fact does not mean I am an employee of SKY or am trying to protect dopers.
 
Aug 13, 2009
11,354
0
0
hrotha said:
For what it's worth, I remember hearing and saying during the stage itself that there had been a tailwind for most of the climb, or at least a wind pattern that was more favourable than usual on Mont Ventoux.
....I heard the same, which is why they finished almost an hour earlier than the fastest time predicted.
 
Aug 13, 2009
11,354
0
0
Netserk said:
So which way do you think the wind was blowing?

[
North for much of the day, SE on the mountain. Yeah, this sounds odd, but if you have ever ridden in that area the sudden appearance of a 6,000 mountain in what is a plan does change things fast. I think most here agree, and the video supports, that the wind on the mountain was SE.
 
Race Radio said:
North for much of the day, SE on the mountain. Yeah, this sounds odd, but if you have ever ridden in that area the sudden appearance of a 6,000 mountain in what is a plan does change things fast. I think most here agree, and the video supports, that the wind on the mountain was SE.
But we agree that it was the northern wind, not the wind on the mountain, that is the reason why the stage finished sooner than expected, no?
 
Aug 13, 2009
11,354
0
0
Netserk said:
But we agree that it was the northern wind, not the wind on the mountain, that is the reason why the stage finished sooner than expected, no?
Absolutely

and the tailwind on the mountain helped the times on Ventoux....
 
Race Radio said:
Absolutely
Then why did you post this:

hrotha said:
For what it's worth, I remember hearing and saying during the stage itself that there had been a tailwind for most of the climb, or at least a wind pattern that was more favourable than usual on Mont Ventoux.
Race Radio said:
....I heard the same, which is why they finished almost an hour earlier than the fastest time predicted.
 
Aug 13, 2009
11,354
0
0
Netserk said:
Then why did you post this:
Perhaps I am missing your point? As I read it Hothra is pointing out that the wind pattern was unusual, something that was well reported that day. As I see it this effected not only the climbing times but the overall stage time
 
Race Radio said:
Perhaps I am missing your point? As I read it Hothra is pointing out that the wind pattern was unusual, something that was well reported that day. As I see it this effected not only the climbing times but the overall stage time
From what I can read hrotha only talked about the wind on Ventoux.

And no matter how strong a tailwind on the climb, it certainly wouldn't be the reason why "they finished almost an hour earlier than the fastest time predicted [for the stage, red.]."
 
Aug 13, 2009
11,354
0
0
Netserk said:
From what I can read hrotha only talked about the wind on Ventoux.

And no matter how strong a tailwind on the climb, it certainly wouldn't be the reason why "they finished almost an hour earlier than the fastest time predicted [for the stage, red.]."
You are right, I was focused on this part

wind pattern that was more favourable than usual
He was referring specifically to Ventoux. I see that it is pretty clear the wind pattern effected much of the stage, but the tailwind on Ventoux was not the reason they finished an hour early
 
Apr 20, 2012
4,238
0
0
Race Radio said:
I have been pretty clear that the last 2-3 km is very exposed to wind. As you can see by the map it would have head, cross, and tail. Ten Dam would likely have felt a lot of this as he was pulling for much of that IIRC That does not change the fact that 80% of the climb had a tailwind. There was 16-17km of tailwind. Some is less exposed, some of it is more exposed....but the vast majority of the climb had a tailwind.

Stating that fact does not mean I am an employee of SKY or am trying to protect dopers.
I say total BS. Sorry but please DL the whole of the climb on for instance cycling torrents and then come back.

First of all, the Ventoux climb is on paper 20.8 kilometres, but, every fool who has been there knows the first 5/5.5/maybe even 6 are basicly false flat. Everyone knows where the climb actually starts.

But lets call you on your 18K tailwind:
* 20.8km: crosswind from the rightside
* 20km: idem dito
* 18.5km: idem dito
* 18km: crosswind from the left
* 17.5km: cross/slightly tailwind from the right
* 15.5km: entering the forest, nullifying windconditions untill the highest part of the forest where Froome turned on full Badzillah, thats about 9km RR. Edit, more 8.5km, my bad.

And so on.

Compare that to the 2002/1994 climbs.

I actually cant understand I am engaging in this.

Please dont think we are fools.
 
Mar 13, 2009
12,232
0
0
Race Radio said:
I have been pretty clear that the last 2-3 km is very exposed to wind. As you can see by the map it would have head, cross, and tail. Ten Dam would likely have felt a lot of this as he was pulling for much of that IIRC That does not change the fact that 80% of the climb had a tailwind. There was 16-17km of tailwind. Some is less exposed, some of it is more exposed....but the vast majority of the climb had a tailwind.

Stating that fact does not mean I am an employee of SKY or am trying to protect dopers.
some respect for RR.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS