World Politics

[Anonymous]

Although I agree with your general sentiments regarding Obama in comparison to Bush, using an example that doesn't exist in reality hardly bolsters your argument.

I guess it's marginally better than using an example that proves the exact argument you're trying to rebut.

The words we use do have meaning or apparently they previously did in a time rhubroma alluded to.

I better shut up because by pointing this out I'm crazy according to my adversaries and embarrassing to my allies.

What can I say? We have people on here who think it's crazy to hold a POTUS accountable and that by virtue of being POTUS the law doesn't apply to them. To further gild the lilly, the person holding these views is part of the mainstream.

I thought in theory, the POTUS and all elected officials were supposed to derive their powers from the people they govern?

Some here say they dislike government because it's corrupt. They have no understanding at all that they are the government.

Alice in Wonderland world we live in.

I'm as much the govt as I am corporations. The reality is you and I have virtually no say in either.

 

[buckwheat]

I'm as much the govt as I am corporations. The reality is you and I have virtually no say in either.

I feel differently.

 

[Anonymous]

I feel differently.

I'm not trying to inflame you but how much govt representation will you feel you have if by 20102 Palin is your new President with conservatives controlling the House and Senate?

I dunno. I don't think I'd have much say in what BP does if I was a stock holder (which I'm not). I certainly don't approve of much of what this govt is doing, especially as it relates to the pace at which we are accumulating more and more debt.

 

[buckwheat]

I'm not trying to inflame you but how much govt representation will you feel you have if by 20102 Palin is your new President with conservatives controlling the House and Senate?.

I don't feel I would have much but I would have some. I usually don't agree with your opinion on policy or politics but you have the right to have it. The Voltaire stuff is very important. I think you have a lot more influence than you think. When you speak to your conservative friends I'm sure you fire a few of them up. Even though you might not be politically active (maybe you are) you have influence on others. I try to have the same. GWB was put into the Presidency by a margin of a few hundred votes. For better or worse that guy had a huge influence on our direction.

I dunno. I don't think I'd have much say in what BP does if I was a stock holder (which I'm not). I certainly don't approve of much of what this govt is doing, especially as it relates to the pace at which we are accumulating more and more debt.

Did you see 60 minutes tonite? Clearly BP can't police themselves. They had visions of dollar signs dancing in their heads and that's what led to this mess. If I'm not going to regulate my behavior, someone is going to regulate it for me. I'm pretty sure you're not happy about the disaster and you want the people responsible to be held accountable. It happened to one of my and your natural resources. The whole country is responsible for overseeing it.

When someone is on life support they may need many units of blood. You worry about saving their life first. Then you proceed from there. The economy was almost flatlining in October of 2008. Now there is a pulse. It may be weak, but....

 

[Anonymous]

I don't feel I would have much but I would have some. I usually don't agree with your opinion on policy or politics but you have the right to have it. The Voltaire stuff is very important. I think you have a lot more influence than you think. When you speak to your conservative friends I'm sure you fire a few of them up. Even though you might not be politically active (maybe you are) you have influence on others. I try to have the same. GWB was put into the Presidency by a margin of a few hundred votes. For better or worse that guy had a huge influence on our direction.



Did you see 60 minutes tonite? Clearly BP can't police themselves. They had visions of dollar signs dancing in their heads and that's what led to this mess. If I'm not going to regulate my behavior, someone is going to regulate it for me. I'm pretty sure you're not happy about the disaster and you want the people responsible to be held accountable. It happened to one of my and your natural resources. The whole country is responsible for overseeing it.

When someone is on life support they may need many units of blood. You worry about saving their life first. Then you proceed from there. The economy was almost flatlining in October of 2008. Now there is a pulse. It may be weak, but....

Fair post.

I did not see 60 minutes but if BP skirted the rules then flush them.

I hear what you are saying about the economy but we just disagree. If someone's on life support and needs blood, give them blood. This economy desperately needs healthy, growing private enterprise because that is where jobs come from. Obama could do so many things to spurr this economy but he's idealogically opposed to it. Healthcare (current form), cap and trade... business killing "reforms" that will make our debt situation worse because our tax base and competitive positioning (globally)will continue to erode.

If someone is on life support needing blood you don't go take their credit card and charge a new Mercedes (even if it's a hybrid).

 

[rhubroma]

You need to take a hard look in the mirror.

Your use of broad generalizations is very much what you describe the American 40-year olds to be. The self-loathing apparent in some of your posts is impressive.

A nation that can't condem itself, is a dangerous nation.

In any case the intelligent ones with an ironic spirit permit themselves the enjoyment of such satire and, in being able to see through such exaggerations and offernsive remarks as part of the satirical genre, make healthy use of it as catharsis against self-loathing and as a cause for healthy reflection, which is noble reflection. By contrast the blockheads, because blockheads, despise and detest such satire since it does mortal harm to their deep-rooted patriotic sentimentality and, at the same time, fragile characters.

They thus can't, as the ironic ones are capable of, percieve through the satire and consequently its gross exaggerations and offensive remarks to experience the catharsis and the cause for healthy refelection. And they are always so serious, never care-free, as the ironic ones are, bogged down in their tragic existence which bores everybody around them above all themselves. That's the truth. No matter what we do, and say, and write, tho shake them out of their life tragedy, Scott SoCal, and chronic boredom, which amounts to a living hell, all is in vain. Every provocation is useless before the colossal hell they are living! And we were only trying to help them in their living hell and chronic boredom by our gross exaggerations and offensive remarks, I thought, but the help we thought we gave them, I thought, merely infuriated them; and even if we really did help them by momentarilly getting them all riled up as they say over what we dared to write, I thought, by offending them we succeeded only in temporarily allieviating them of their life-long boredom notwithstanding we had hoped for much more, Scott SoCal, that the help we provided them we hoped, I thought, in our megalomania, would even change them, by just once causing them to reflect upon all the important issues we raised in our discussion though didn't because it was far beyond their capacity to digest everyhting we said and indicated and raised-up, their help, I thought Scott SoCal, and indeed only caused them to have every reason to hate us and filled them with the strongest desire to throw-up.

 

[Anonymous]

And we were only trying to help them in their living hell and chronic boredom by our gross exaggerations and offensive remarks, I thought, but the help we thought we gave them, I thought, merely infuriated them; and even if we really did help them by momentarilly getting them all riled up as they say over what we dared to write, I thought, by offending them we succeeded only in temporarily allieviating them of their life-long boredom notwithstanding we had hoped for much more, Scott SoCal, that the help we provided them we hoped, I thought, in our megalomania, would even change them, by just once causing them to reflect upon all the important issues we raised in our discussion though didn't because it was far beyond their capacity to digest everyhting we said and indicated and raised-up, their help, I thought Scott SoCal, and indeed only caused them to have every reason to hate us and filled them with the strongest desire to throw-up.

This sentence has 168 words, 14 commas and is un-readable. D-

 

[Anonymous]

Fair post.

I did not see 60 minutes but if BP skirted the rules then flush them.

I hear what you are saying about the economy but we just disagree. If someone's on life support and needs blood, give them blood. This economy desperately needs healthy, growing private enterprise because that is where jobs come from. Obama could do so many things to spurr this economy but he's idealogically opposed to it. Healthcare (current form), cap and trade... business killing "reforms" that will make our debt situation worse because our tax base and competitive positioning (globally)will continue to erode.

If someone is on life support needing blood you don't go take their credit card and charge a new Mercedes (even if it's a hybrid).

I saw the 60 minutes report, and if what was presented is true in terms of the BP representative taking a short cut in capping the well and that being the reason it blew out, then if they go out of business because of this, they deserve it. It made my blood boil, and any regulation and sanctions they receive because of their actions are their fault. Fu#k them. You trust corporations more, and I cannot understand why. They jeopardized the lives and businesses of millions of people (the oil is moving its way east and will probably go up the east coast), they took the FREEDOM away from millions in terms of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, and all we ever hear from Republicans is that there are too many regulations and taxes are too high. They fight any attempt to regulate business for any reason. I cannot help but believe (call me crazy), but the oil friendly attitude and policies of the Cheney administration helped create this. They had years of skirting the regulations because they were not being enforced. Their attitude and practices became lax because they could.

"Drill baby drill!" Sounds like the mantra of an idiot, doesn't it? And yes, that includes Obama and his intentions to expand offshore drilling.

 

[Anonymous]

Fair post.

I did not see 60 minutes but if BP skirted the rules then flush them.

I hear what you are saying about the economy but we just disagree. If someone's on life support and needs blood, give them blood. This economy desperately needs healthy, growing private enterprise because that is where jobs come from. Obama could do so many things to spurr this economy but he's idealogically opposed to it. Healthcare (current form), cap and trade... business killing "reforms" that will make our debt situation worse because our tax base and competitive positioning (globally)will continue to erode.

If someone is on life support needing blood you don't go take their credit card and charge a new Mercedes (even if it's a hybrid).

You do realize that cap and trade can also help create business? Right? It hurts the oil and coal industries, but hey, they are the paragon of virtue and concern for the lives of the citizens of our country. Seems to me that business and innovation will always gravitate towards areas that are expanding and away from those that contract. Seems to me that green energy has some merits. Yes, yes, I know, we like to drive Hummers and throw out our fast food packaging from our Hummer windows, but I kind of like clean streams, rivers, oceans, and stuff...

 

[Anonymous]

You do realize that cap and trade can also help create business? Right? It hurts the oil and coal industries, but hey, they are the paragon of virtue and concern for the lives of the citizens of our country. Seems to me that business and innovation will always gravitate towards areas that are expanding and away from those that contract. Seems to me that green energy has some merits. Yes, yes, I know, we like to drive Hummers and throw out our fast food packaging from our Hummer windows, but I kind of like clean streams, rivers, oceans, and stuff...

There are real world examples of this. Spain cost their economy something like 2.2 jobs for every green job created. AB 32 in Cali is estimated to cost as much as 1,000,000... that's net after green job gain. Talk to someone in the construction industry in CA and ask them of the impact of the only partially in-force AB32.

You've hammered me on theory before. Now it's my turn

 

[rhubroma]

This sentence has 168 words, 14 commas and is un-readable. D-

Make the corrections.

 

[Anonymous]

Make the corrections.

I was going to but my delete button overheated. HP probably cut some corner to save a nickel.

 

[Anonymous]

There are real world examples of this. Spain cost their economy something like 2.2 jobs for every green job created. AB 32 in Cali is estimated to cost as much as 1,000,000... that's net after green job gain. Talk to someone in the construction industry in CA and ask them of the impact of the only partially in-force AB32.

You've hammered me on theory before. Now it's my turn

Times change as do priorities in society. There is a cost to those changes. Businesses and jobs adapt. We will be better off in the long run. Don't I hear Republicans always talking about our future generations?

 

[Anonymous]

Times change as do priorities in society. There is a cost to those changes. Businesses and jobs adapt. We will be better off in the long run. Don't I hear Republicans always talking about our future generations?

How many future years at $1 Trillion or more in deficit are you willing to gamble with?

 

[BroDeal]

How many future years at $1 Trillion or more in deficit are you willing to gamble with?

I would take these loons a lot more seriously if they had not been cheering on Bush he piled on the debt and destroyed the economy. As it is, their crying about the deficit rings pathetically hollow.

We all know the real reason they are so upset.

 

[Anonymous]

How many future years at $1 Trillion or more in deficit are you willing to gamble with?

More than this. Oil is a finite resource. Coal is a finite resource. Both damage our environment dramatically at times (coal almost constantly). How many more years are you willing to gamble with that?

 

[Anonymous]

More than this. Oil is a finite resource. Coal is a finite resource. Both damage our environment dramatically at times (coal almost constantly). How many more years are you willing to gamble with that?

Be careful what you wish for. I think we will have cap and trade. 9 -12% unemployment for a decade or more. Flat to very sluggish GDP growth. Entitlement spending exponentially higher. Energy (our economic engine) exponentially more expensive (which hurts the poor and I thought the left were trying to help the poor??). The virtual elimination of US based manufacturing (bad for unions). Growth in govt with contraction in the private sector. Probably a bunch of other cause/effect issues I'm missing...

The best part is it will have no impact on "climate change" as India and China have said "no thanks." But it's cool. We'll get by.

 

[rhubroma]

I was going to but my delete button overheated. HP probably cut some corner to save a nickel.

Then buy a new computer.

 

[Anonymous]

Be careful what you wish for. I think we will have cap and trade. 9 -12% unemployment for a decade or more. Flat to very sluggish GDP growth. Entitlement spending exponentially higher. Energy (our economic engine) exponentially more expensive (which hurts the poor and I thought the left were trying to help the poor??). The virtual elimination of US based manufacturing (bad for unions). Growth in govt with contraction in the private sector. Probably a bunch of other cause/effect issues I'm missing...

The best part is it will have no impact on "climate change" as India and China have said "no thanks." But it's cool. We'll get by.

Okay, you have delineated the worst case scenario. The reality will be somewhere between that and the best case scenario. I would also suggest that the elimination of US based manufacturing is already in the mail and if delivered, has nothing to do with energy costs.

Show me where it will have no effect on climate change. I mean by actually showing me a peer reviewed scientific study showing that precise thing. Not some Glen Beck book. Real science.

Past that, there is a better reason to ween ourselves off of the oil/coal drug habit. The Middle East. Yes, I realize that Texas will become vapid wasteland without King Oil, but they deserve it for giving us Dubya.

 

[Anonymous]

I would take these loons a lot more seriously if they had not been cheering on Bush he piled on the debt and destroyed the economy. As it is, their crying about the deficit rings pathetically hollow.

We all know the real reason they are so upset.

Nice photo. I have one too;

"But the really interesting stuff is the detail, and what leaps out again and again is how much of a hill the US has to climb. Exhibit a is the fact that under the Obama administration’s current fiscal plans, the national debt in the US (on a gross basis) will climb to above 100pc of GDP by 2015 – a far steeper increase than almost any other country."


I know. Who cares?

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/edmundconway/100005702/us-faces-one-of-biggest-budget-crunches-in-western-world-imf/

 

[Anonymous]

Nice photo. I have one too;

"But the really interesting stuff is the detail, and what leaps out again and again is how much of a hill the US has to climb. Exhibit a is the fact that under the Obama administration’s current fiscal plans, the national debt in the US (on a gross basis) will climb to above 100pc of GDP by 2015 – a far steeper increase than almost any other country."


I know. Who cares?

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/edmundconway/100005702/us-faces-one-of-biggest-budget-crunches-in-western-world-imf/

Again, you have a worse case scenario. (and if you actually read to the bottom, you will see that the author does not see us bottoming out) Good for political theater, but not much else. The graph is contingent on minimal economic improvement, which may or may not happen. However, you will excuse me if I don't take my estimates of that from the people who said a year ago that the Stimulus Package would give us 30% unemployment by now. (exaggeration, but only slightly). Sorry, but political rhetoric is useful for elections and little else.

 

[BroDeal]

"But the really interesting stuff is the detail, and what leaps out again and again is how much of a hill the US has to climb. Exhibit a is the fact that under the Obama administration’s current fiscal plans, the national debt in the US (on a gross basis) will climb to above 100pc of GDP by 2015 – a far steeper increase than almost any other country."

That is the problem with years of fiscal mismanagement by the Republicans: You have to spend money to clean up after their mess. Perhaps if you and your conservative ilk had done something about Bush then the country would not be in the situation it is in today. Nowadays you spend your time complaining about money being spent to fix the problems that you created.

Clearly the solution is not spend any money propping up demand so that the country will slide into a depression.

 

[Anonymous]

Okay, you have delineated the worst case scenario. The reality will be somewhere between that and the best case scenario. I would also suggest that the elimination of US based manufacturing is already in the mail and if delivered, has nothing to do with energy costs.

Show me where it will have no effect on climate change. I mean by actually showing me a peer reviewed scientific study showing that precise thing. Not some Glen Beck book. Real science.

Past that, there is a better reason to ween ourselves off of the oil/coal drug habit. The Middle East. Yes, I realize that Texas will become vapid wasteland without King Oil, but they deserve it for giving us Dubya.

I don't think what I think may happen is nearly 'worst case scenario.'

Please forgive my giggling at the term 'peer reviewed scientific study' when referring to climate change.

You do realize that China, Russia and a host of other countries have deals with Cuba to drill for oil in the gulf, right?

We could be significantly more energy independent than we are. Any guesses as to why we are not?

 

[Anonymous]

Again, you have a worse case scenario. (and if you actually read to the bottom, you will see that the author does not see us bottoming out) Good for political theater, but not much else. The graph is contingent on minimal economic improvement, which may or may not happen. However, you will excuse me if I don't take my estimates of that from the people who said a year ago that the Stimulus Package would give us 30% unemployment by now. (exaggeration, but only slightly). Sorry, but political rhetoric is useful for elections and little else.

But Obama said the stimulus would limit unemployment to 8%. Without it it could go to 9% or higher, which he said would be a catastrophe.

 

[Anonymous]

That is the problem with years of fiscal mismanagement by the Republicans: You have to spend money to clean up after their mess. Perhaps if you and your conservative ilk had done something about Bush then the country would not be in the situation it is in today. Nowadays you spend your time complaining about money being spent to fix the problems that you created.

Clearly the solution is not spend any money propping up demand so that the country will slide into a depression.

I created? Holy shit! I had no idea...

Remind me again who cleaned up after Carter?