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buckwheat

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Thoughtforfood said:
"Reagan proved that deficits don't matter."
Dick Cheney

Both would be run out of the teabagging party.
Then the Tea bagger in chief herself, Palin, would be run out too, because she has been quoted many times extolling Raygun.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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contador fan no matter what said:
HAHAHA! your funny! What you call our ideas arn't our ideas, there from God and the Founding Fathers! and By the way, why are the other nations falling? because the turned back away from their Principles.
This has to be the most absurd thing I have ever heard in my life.
 
Nov 2, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
Well if I read tabloid media and andrew bolt then you would watch the ABC who is so biased against the Liberal party it is not funny.

Having the amount of greens that are in the federal parliament and the amount of greens who could possibly win seats in the state election is scary. And you would be surprised to know that I have voted different in State elections than in federal elections. I am undecided this time.
If you think the ABC is "so biased against the Liberal party it is not funny" then you must be wearing Liberal-party tinted glasses all the time you're not wearing the Evans-tinted glasses. I know it's a standard Andrew Bolt/Liberal party accusation ... it's almost funny how automatically you trot out the party lines. Howard started stacking the ABC board with handpicked representatives from the moment he got into power.

I don't watch TV. I occasionally watch documentaries on the iview services of the ABC or SBS. I have, on the whole, stopped relying on Australian media as most of it is fluff and most of what they "report" is corporate or political PR-spin. I look at the headlines in The Age to get a sense of what is making the news and sometimes click on a link to read further. Very occasionally I look at the Herald-Sun for a sense of how they are covering a particular issue. I often read the letters to the editor in The Age for a sense of local issues. I read a range of international newspapers and, sometimes (depending on what is happening in the world), a range of academics, journals and blogs written by people directly affected. I listen to podcasts of Phillip Adams' Radio National "Latenight Live" program when I am as cycling as he has an extremely wide range of guests and it gives me a broad overview of a range of issues, local and international. Grass roots activist organisations are often the best sources of info for specific issues in this country. They have the data because they work "in the field" and they don't do spin.

Edit: I also read a lot of books.

The rise in the popularity of the Greens reflects the degree to which the Coalition and Labor parties have swung to the right in the past 15 years. If Howard hadn't taken us so far to the right, and Labor hadn't slunk after them in an effort to win over Coalition voters, there wouldn't be this resurgence of the left in the form of the Greens. So you can blame your man Johnny and his acolytes.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Cobber said:
Given that the ABC is funded by the government that is really saying something!

This pretty much sums up Howard's political philosophy....
I find it hard to believe that Bush has howard on a leash especially when you look at America & Australia's economy when both were in power. Bush was just about the war.They can be funded by the government all they like but it doesn't change their bias. One of ABC's better reporters/journalists is Joesphine Cafania.
 
Nov 2, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
I find it hard to believe that Bush has howard on a leash especially when you look at America & Australia's economy when both were in power. Bush was just about the war.They can be funded by the government all they like but it doesn't change their bias. One of ABC's better reporters/journalists is Joesphine Cafania.
I interpreted it as saying that Howard was GW's brown-nosing biatch. :D Very true.
 
contador fan no matter what said:
HAHAHA! your funny! What you call our ideas arn't our ideas, there from God and the Founding Fathers! and By the way, why are the other nations falling? because the turned back away from their Principles.
Proof that the obscurantism of religion is still deeply rooted in America. And these people vote for the politicians who make a global impact on the rest of the world. :eek:

If it weren't also terribly dangerous we could just have a laugh at the utter unenlightened backwardness of such a mentality, which places belief in the blessings of a Supreme Power at the basis of establishing the Nation and elevates its founding fathers to a cult iconic status. It is a bigoted and fundamentalist mentality that is the mirror image of the radical Islamic world and at the orthodox basis of Israel, that says that righteousness and the Truth are synonymous with my society and my State because The Almighty is with us at the exclusion of others customs and traditions. Here we aren't even talking about mere ideology, but a type of superstition which takes us back to the days of believing the world was flat and the Inquisition.

Indeed if the other nations are failing it is precisely because they have offended this God and have gotten away from the righteousness and Truth offered us by him, as interpreted by the Founding Fathers of the State, and which only we possess. Marx was correct: religion is the people's opiate for sure. And the easy alibi of the stupid and the lazy.
 
contador fan no matter what said:
HAHAHA! your funny! What you call our ideas arn't our ideas, there from God and the Founding Fathers! and By the way, why are the other nations falling? because the turned back away from their Principles.
You do realise Thomas Jefferson was a deist ( ie pre Darwin atheist) and wrote the Jefferson bible- which basically took out everything religious from the bible.
And the original pledge of allegiance read

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Only in the 50's were the words "under god" added.

Jefferson also wrote the Virginia Statues on religious freedom, which guarantes seperation of church from state.

While i consider Jefferson the greatest US president, my and many peoples pick for number 2 would be Lincoln. And guess what, he didnt believe in God either.

THeres nothing religious about the US constitution or its founding fathers. its principles are 100% secular.
 

buckwheat

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The Hitch said:
You do realise Thomas Jefferson was a deist ( ie pre Darwin atheist) and wrote the Jefferson bible- which basically took out everything religious from the bible.....
stop stop stop,

No he doesn't realize that.

That's not what Beck says.....
 
May 13, 2009
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I'm kind of getting disappointed with the Republicans. It's been over a week since the election and I haven't received any tax rebate yet. Dubya used to send out checks. Why can't we do that again? And why isn't the budget balanced? It would be such an easy thing. If we just stop sending money out to those welfare queens and all those people asking for government handouts and federal money.
 
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The Hitch said:
You do realise Thomas Jefferson was a deist ( ie pre Darwin atheist) and wrote the Jefferson bible- which basically took out everything religious from the bible.
And the original pledge of allegiance read

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Only in the 50's were the words "under god" added.

Jefferson also wrote the Virginia Statues on religious freedom, which guarantes seperation of church from state.

While i consider Jefferson the greatest US president, my and many peoples pick for number 2 would be Lincoln. And guess what, he didnt believe in God either.

THeres nothing religious about the US constitution or its founding fathers. its principles are 100% secular.
Incorrect. It included only the words of Jesus. I know it is popular for atheists to submit that Jefferson was the equivalent of an atheist, but it holds little water in reality. He was committed to the ideas of social justice presented by Jesus. He also believed in a god, just not the God of the Bible.
 
Thoughtforfood said:
Incorrect. It included only the words of Jesus. I know it is popular for atheists to submit that Jefferson was the equivalent of an atheist, but it holds little water in reality. He was committed to the ideas of social justice presented by Jesus. He also believed in a god, just not the God of the Bible.
Jefferson was not an atheist he was a deist. Hell i wonder sometimes why he try to claim him given that he didnt live up to expectations on slavery, but deists believe that God created the world and left it at that. Its completely different to any of the major religions, all of which claim God takes an active interest in the world.

The fact is many of the writers, thinkers philosophers etc to which atheists look back to, were deists. Thomas Jefferson, Baruch Spinoza Thomas Paine.

Before scientific advances, it was popular for those who didnt believe that God takes any interest in the fate of mankind, to take the view that he probably was responsible for its creation. There werent many other ideas as to what could have created the universe.

As humans discovered the theory of evolution, the big bang theory - contrary explanations, such people began to turn away from the idea that God created the universe, and here the ideological succesors of deists, become atheists.
 
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Anonymous

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The Hitch said:
Jefferson was not an atheist he was a deist. Hell i wonder sometimes why he try to claim him given that he didnt live up to expectations on slavery, but deists believe that God created the world and left it at that. Its completely different to any of the major religions, all of which claim God takes an active interest in the world.

The fact is many of the writers, thinkers philosophers etc to which atheists look back to, were deists. Thomas Jefferson, Baruch Spinoza Thomas Paine.

Before scientific advances, it was popular for those who didnt believe that God takes any interest in the fate of mankind, to take the view that he probably was responsible for its creation. There werent many other ideas as to what could have created the universe.

As humans discovered the theory of evolution, the big bang theory - contrary explanations, such people began to turn away from the idea that God created the universe, and here the ideological succesors of deists, become atheists.
Some people turned away. Others accepted the new science and still believe in God. I grew up the son of a biology teacher. I also believe in God. The two are not mutually exclusive, though fundamentalists (religious and atheist) like to preach that is the case. To suggest that you know how Jefferson would have fallen on the subject is fanciful pontification with no basis in fact.
 
Thoughtforfood said:
Some people turned away. Others accepted the new science and still believe in God. I grew up the son of a biology teacher. I also believe in God. The two are not mutually exclusive, though fundamentalists (religious and atheist) like to preach that is the case. To suggest that you know how Jefferson would have fallen on the subject is fanciful pontification with no basis in fact.
I think you misunderstand. This isnt about science versus religion. Yes there are many great scientists who believe in God. Francis Collins for example - a devout christian is possibly the greatest scientist of our time,
Iam not claiming otherwise.

But deism vs religion is a completely different thing.

Theists believe that God created the universe and most importantly cares about and controls what goes on today.

Atheists and deists reject that God cares about or controls the universe. They disagree on how the universe was created but that is of minor importance. Deists arent going to spend any time engaging in any religious acts or follow any religious rules or systems.

Deists like Jefferson, have very little in common with religion in the first place. They are moving rapidly away from it. They reject 99 % of its ideas.

In "Age of reason" Jeffersons great friend and fellow deist Paine challenges religion quite fiercely. He rejects that there is any divinity whatsoever to the bible and claims christianity is man made. This idea is incompatible with christianity. The idea that the bible is the word of God lies at the heart of Christianity and similarly in iSlam and Judaism with their texts.

Im not going to say that i know whatt Jefferson would have believed in this day and age.
But dont you think its highly unlikely that people who reject the authority of the bible, reject the miracles, and dont even believe that God can hear or see us, would in todays world find themselves as christians - believing the authority of the bible, believeing in the miracles, believing that God can hear and see us. ?
 
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