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World Politics

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Bartlett, like Stockman before him, has broken ranks with today's Republicans. Even Art Laffer, one of the fathers of supply-side economics who favors extending the Bush tax cuts forever, has been critical of the GOP and the general conservative push for suppression of wages.

Reagan is portrayed as a caricature of who he really was by the extreme right, and the extreme left attack that caricature, the caricature people like Ryan, DeMint, Bachman, Cornyn, have become.

It's actually quite depressing that the moderate wing of the GOP is all but voiceless. Equally problematic is that we're likely to see a "coffee party" of sorts push moderate Democrats aside in the future.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Bala Verde said:
Just for fun I looked up the dutch income tax rates for 2011 (obviously does not include 19% vat):

1
€ 0 - € 18.628
33,00% <65 yrs
15,10% >65 yrs

2
€ 18.629 - € 33.436
41,95% <65 yrs
24,05% >65 yrs

3
€ 33.437 - € 55.694
42,00%
42,00%

4
>€ 55.695
52,00%
52,00%

see Belastingdienst

why do that it is not relevant to the USA!
 
May 23, 2010
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Just another thought.. forget about tax rates.. the wealthy operate their personal wealth like an oil company. They might have 400 million in liquid assets but they only pay taxes on what they use. Nevermind that they actually made 10 times as much. everything else is in trusts and somehow they don't pay taxes on it..and they sure do b**ch about estate taxes.. Now for most of us.. if we had some spare millions laying around we couldn't just dump it into our 401k's and IRAs.. We'd have to pay taxes on its income.

Imagine just being taxed on what you have left over..

Finally..I get really tired of the scotts pssing down my leg about the Walton family's tax situation.. fthem and scotts horse too.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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redtreviso said:
Just another thought.. forget about tax rates.. the wealthy operate their personal wealth like an oil company. They might have 400 million in liquid assets but they only pay taxes on what they use. Nevermind that they actually made 10 times as much. everything else is in trusts and somehow they don't pay taxes on it..and they sure do b**ch about estate taxes.. Now for most of us.. if we had some spare millions laying around we couldn't just dump it into our 401k's and IRAs.. We'd have to pay taxes on its income.

Imagine just being taxed on what you have left over..

Finally..I get really tired of the scotts pssing down my leg about the Walton family's tax situation.. fthem and scotts horse too.

You've said that before. Do you have something going with Scott's horse? That's sick, red!!! :D
 
May 23, 2010
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Plano texas.. This sounds like some kind of universal PASS.. pay 10 grand and hang an american flag outside.. be bothered no more.. of course your yard service company has 10 people named Jose' Smith..

""The initial tea party plan presented to the Plano City Council candidates called for each business in the city to pay the city $10,015 per employee. If the company used E-Verify, $10,000 would be returned to the business. Openshaw said that plan was the idea of one member of the group and not the group's official plan.

"That proposal was put forth by one person, and we didn't all buy into it," Openshaw said. "Personally, I found those numbers to be way excessive; however, I still like the concept of the city requiring the use of E-Verify."
""

http://www.planostar.com/articles/2011/06/09/plano_star-courier/news/9028.txt
 
Mar 17, 2009
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redtreviso said:
Plano texas.. This sounds like some kind of universal PASS.. pay 10 grand and hang an american flag outside.. be bothered no more.. of course your yard service company has 10 people named Jose' Smith..

""The initial tea party plan presented to the Plano City Council candidates called for each business in the city to pay the city $10,015 per employee. If the company used E-Verify, $10,000 would be returned to the business. Openshaw said that plan was the idea of one member of the group and not the group's official plan.

"That proposal was put forth by one person, and we didn't all buy into it," Openshaw said. "Personally, I found those numbers to be way excessive; however, I still like the concept of the city requiring the use of E-Verify."
""

http://www.planostar.com/articles/2011/06/09/plano_star-courier/news/9028.txt

What do you think of the city using e-verify?
 
May 23, 2010
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patricknd said:
What do you think of the city using e-verify?

I think it must be some kind of joke..make those people in plano feel better about themselves.. A neighboring city Farmers Branch is trying to make sure no apartments in their city rent to illegals..Meanwhile though Plano and Farmers Branch are quite affluent and there are surely hordes of illegals doing EVERYTHING...They just want to put up this E-verify thing to play like they not a haven for what illegals come here for in the first place. The E-verify sign will be their "go look elsewhere mr. INS man" sign.. (who moi??)
 
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redtreviso said:
I think it must be some kind of joke..make those peo.ple in plano feel better about themselves.. A neighboring city Farmers Branch is trying to make sure no apartments in their city rent to illegals..Meanwhile though Plano and Farmers Branch are quite affluent and there are surely hordes of illegals doing EVERYTHING...They just want to put up this E-verify thing to play like they not a haven for what illegals come here for in the first place. The E-verify sign will be their "go look elsewhere mr. INS man" sign.. (who moi??)

I get a kick out of everyone complaining about illegals but they sure like getting their yard mowed, trimmed, edged and blown for $20.00
 
May 23, 2010
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patricknd said:
I get a kick out of everyone complaining about illegals but they sure like getting their yard mowed, trimmed, edged and blown for $20.00

Around here Republican Billy joe bubba donnie charges 30 bucks..Jose' and Juan get 5 each to actually do it while Billy Joe Bubba Donnie sits in his 1 ton Dually crew cab listening to Rush Limbaugh.
 
Scott SoCal said:
No catching hell from me. I'm just curious what level of annual income does one have to attain before the govt defines one as 'rich' or 'wealthy'. No one seems to know... or they know but won't say.

I'm curious about the other questions too.

The really demented thing is that for someone making 30 k per year, the guy who makes 60 k is pretty wealthy.

But who cares in a country and in a world that's so horribly corrupt and unjust?

Since the 1970s, considering inflation, cost of living hikes and the gargantuan sums that the economy has actually generated since then, the American worker hasn't seen an increase in his salary, while at the same time a life of consumption on credit has been foisted upon him by the world of finance and the credit market to make up for consumption demands he would otherwise not be able to meet with his pay. A financial world that in many cases also provides him his pay check, so that the money not being given to his salary is then turned into more profit on the interest paid back on the loans of credit it provides. Nice system. Everything favors the financiers.

At the same time one billion people on this planet live with less than one dollar a day.

These two statistics allow us to immediately grasp how the economy is not only malfunctioning at home and globally, but to what great imbalance and total lack of a decent measure between the haves and have-nots it has created. Or that anything principled was ever in the economic plans, for which liberty does not merely translate into the crude philosophy of the pursuit of wealth without any social responsibility; or, to put it within the ideology of Reaganomics and the Thatcherist polemic that society doesn’t exist insofar as the role of the State should not be to govern in collective interest, but rather on behalf of the appetites and desires of individuals, within a culture of eternal struggle to get ahead of the competition.

250 years ago revolutionary democracy, as the great social leveler, was supposed to end the cast system between wealth and poverty characterized by a corrupt and egotistical aristocracy (also beyond any sense of decent measure) and an estate hierarchy that had reached its historical expiration date. But then came along the capitalists and their lobbies and a political class that gets paid handsomely by them, who aren't elected to represent anything in the public domain, to set a biased political agenda that's totally in their favor and to their liking. Campaign financing, the great evil of our democracy, represents the latest incarnation of a social order that was supposed to have been eliminated, but that's very much alive and prospering.

Simple reason would allow for those who make considerably more, to have to pay considerably more, not only in absolute terms, but in proportion to their actual wealth, in a system of democratic taxation based upon social equality and justice. The republicans, in particular, are proof that the cast system not only still exists, but is even protected under the aegis of government. Although both parties are mere tools of the economic protagonists and the lobbies that represent them. Finally that Warren Buffet, according to his own admission, pays intolerably less to the State, and thus to collective society, on the 10 million he earned last year than does his secretary who grosses 60 k and pays intolerably more, only demonstrates that what we were taught in the primary schools about the history of democracy and what it was supposed to provide us all was simply complete BS.
 
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redtreviso said:
Just another thought.. forget about tax rates.. the wealthy operate their personal wealth like an oil company. They might have 400 million in liquid assets but they only pay taxes on what they use. Nevermind that they actually made 10 times as much. everything else is in trusts and somehow they don't pay taxes on it..and they sure do b**ch about estate taxes.. Now for most of us.. if we had some spare millions laying around we couldn't just dump it into our 401k's and IRAs.. We'd have to pay taxes on its income.

Imagine just being taxed on what you have left over..

Finally..I get really tired of the scotts pssing down my leg about the Walton family's tax situation.. fthem and scotts horse too.



They might have 400 million in liquid assets but they only pay taxes on what they use. Nevermind that they actually made 10 times as much. everything else is in trusts and somehow they don't pay taxes on it..

I honestly don't know what you are on about here. Are you talking about company stock holdings? If you are the proceeds are taxed at the point of sale. But you say liquid assets, which I can only assume you mean cash, which has been taxed at the point which it was earned (corporate or personal income). Cash and assets that wind up in trusts are after tax. Maybe you meant something different??:confused:

Now for most of us.. if we had some spare millions laying around we couldn't just dump it into our 401k's and IRAs.. We'd have to pay taxes on its income.

If you had spare millions laying around you would have already paid taxes on it, no? While you could not dump millions into a 401(k) (which is an employer sponsored plan, BTW) or IRA (the govt limits your contribution to $5,000 per year or $6,000 if you are 50 or older), you certainly could place your spare millions in any number of tax advantaged :)eek:) investment strategies.

Imagine just being taxed on what you have left over..

So, we should be taxed on our after tax money? I am :confused:

As to the Walton family, they will be fine. I'm more worried about the small business owner who sucessfully started a business, has worked to grow the business, has a decent personal net worth and has to spend an incredible amount of money to create a succession plan for his kids to be able to continue in the business or worse yet, this same guy puts off establishing his/her succession plan, then dies and the kids have 9 months to pay the IRS whatever estate taxes are due. And in case you are wondering, if the Bush (Obama?) tax plan expires the exemption will revert to $1,000,000 and the IRS will tax everything over that (which has already been taxed, BTW) at 55%. So, in many cases the heirs have to sell out to pay the taxes. That's a bad deal for everyone except the tax man.

And I don't have a horse...
 
May 23, 2010
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If you are the proceeds are taxed at the point of sale." Like Bush and Cheney
..they have theirs in blind trusts and don't know.. Have holdings in the tens of millions but only show several hundred k in income..Typical

""you certainly could place your spare millions in any number of tax advantaged :)eek:) investment strategies""

Like in the cayman islands...spend the proceeds with a Cayman Islands VISA

""So, we should be taxed on our after tax money? I am :confused:"" Like an oil company figures profits.. After everything. bonuses for the board etc.. PROFIT.. I should only be taxed on whatever I have left after ANYTHING I would like to spend part or all of my income on. If I have nothing left after dining at 4 star restaurants everyday so be it.

""Bush (Obama?) tax plan expires the exemption will revert to $1,000,000""

They will fix that..But not for you

. and yes the waltons and the Kochs will do just fine..They've got a whole political party lobbying for their interests and passing it off as YOUR interests..
 
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redtreviso said:
If you are the proceeds are taxed at the point of sale." Like Bush and Cheney
..they have theirs in blind trusts and don't know.. Have holdings in the tens of millions but only show several hundred k in income..Typical

""you certainly could place your spare millions in any number of tax advantaged :)eek:) investment strategies""

Like in the cayman islands...spend the proceeds with a Cayman Islands VISA

""So, we should be taxed on our after tax money? I am :confused:"" Like an oil company figures profits.. After everything. bonuses for the board etc.. PROFIT.. I should only be taxed on whatever I have left after ANYTHING I would like to spend part or all of my income on. If I have nothing left after dining at 4 star restaurants everyday so be it.

""Bush (Obama?) tax plan expires the exemption will revert to $1,000,000""

They will fix that..But not for you

. and yes the waltons and the Kochs will do just fine..They've got a whole political party lobbying for their interests and passing it off as YOUR interests..

..they have theirs in blind trusts and don't know.. Have holdings in the tens of millions but only show several hundred k in income..Typical

No different than you showing a gain in your 401(k). You get taxed when you liquidate shares. So what's the problem?

Like in the cayman islands...spend the proceeds with a Cayman Islands VISA

Nope. Right here in the good 'ol USA. You could follow the lead of your fellow Texan Ross Perot, for example.

Like an oil company figures profits.. After everything. bonuses for the board etc.. PROFIT.. I should only be taxed on whatever I have left after ANYTHING I would like to spend part or all of my income on. If I have nothing left after dining at 4 star restaurants everyday so be it.

Hilarious. You do realize the "oil companies" did not write the tax code, right? So now you are going to bang on business for having the temerity to actually write-off IRS allowable expenses? Here's an idea.... why not just tax business on gross revenue? :rolleyes:
 
May 23, 2010
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Scott SoCal said:
No different than you showing a gain in your 401(k). You get taxed when you liquidate shares. So what's the problem?



Nope. Right here in the good 'ol USA. You could follow the lead of your fellow Texan Ross Perot, for example.



Hilarious. You do realize the "oil companies" did not write the tax code, right? So now you are going to bang on business for having the temerity to actually write-off IRS allowable expenses? Here's an idea.... why not just tax business on gross revenue? :rolleyes:



""No different than you showing a gain in your 401(k). You get taxed when you liquidate shares. So what's the problem?""

Getting 10s of millions into my 401k is the trick..the cheneys have no problem doing this..I'm sure there is some kind of loophole for transferring such holdings to Dubai or Phil Gramm's swiss friends too.

Why not tax business on gross revenue? You would think they do..but they don't.. If personal income taxes were applied the same it would be as I described.. Only taxed on net profits after expenses.. Many business owners graft much of their personal life through their business to avoid(cheat) on their taxes..The person that gets a paycheck does not.. The ones that complain the most are already cheating..If it is legal why not? I know a doctor who only goes on vacations that also coincide with some kind of seminar.. 5 or 6 times a year.. St Moritz ,, Vail, Aspen.. You know..

There are already huge mechanisms in place for small business owners and even more for big business owners.. The volume of complaint is just annoying.
 
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redtreviso said:
""No different than you showing a gain in your 401(k). You get taxed when you liquidate shares. So what's the problem?""

Getting 10s of millions into my 401k is the trick..the cheneys have no problem doing this..I'm sure there is some kind of loophole for transferring such holdings to Dubai or Phil Gramm's swiss friends too.

Why not tax business on gross revenue? You would think they do..but they don't.. If personal income taxes were applied the same it would be as I described.. Only taxed on net profits after expenses.. Many business owners graft much of their personal life through their business to avoid(cheat) on their taxes..The person that gets a paycheck does not.. The ones that complain the most are already cheating..If it is legal why not? I know a doctor who only goes on vacations that also coincide with some kind of seminar.. 5 or 6 times a year.. St Moritz ,, Vail, Aspen.. You know..

There are already huge mechanisms in place for small business owners and even more for big business owners.. The volume of complaint is just annoying.

Sounds like you have a problem with the tax code. If people are cheating then that's a corruption problem, which is different. If the doctors 'business' trips pass the scrutiny of an audit then what's the problem?
 
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redtreviso said:
""No different than you showing a gain in your 401(k). You get taxed when you liquidate shares. So what's the problem?""

Getting 10s of millions into my 401k is the trick..the cheneys have no problem doing this..I'm sure there is some kind of loophole for transferring such holdings to Dubai or Phil Gramm's swiss friends too.

Why not tax business on gross revenue? You would think they do..but they don't.. If personal income taxes were applied the same it would be as I described.. Only taxed on net profits after expenses.. Many business owners graft much of their personal life through their business to avoid(cheat) on their taxes..The person that gets a paycheck does not.. The ones that complain the most are already cheating..If it is legal why not? I know a doctor who only goes on vacations that also coincide with some kind of seminar.. 5 or 6 times a year.. St Moritz ,, Vail, Aspen.. You know..

There are already huge mechanisms in place for small business owners and even more for big business owners.. The volume of complaint is just annoying.

those wascally wepubs know all the twicks :D

if you want to get 10's of millions into your 401k you have to make 10's of millions. sounds like you better get busy...:D
 
May 23, 2010
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Scott SoCal said:
Sounds like you have a problem with the tax code. If people are cheating then that's a corruption problem, which is different. If the doctors 'business' trips pass the scrutiny of an audit then what's the problem?

The problem is we have a congress/government that only concerns itself with the interests of those who already are accommodated for disproportionally. Once again I site Bill Frist who said we could not raise minimum wage unless there was a tax break for the wealthy..To the frist types it is US vs Them always..There's no way the "wealthy" are effected by a minimum wage hike.
 
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patricknd said:
those wascally wepubs know all the twicks :D

if you want to get 10's of millions into your 401k you have to make 10's of millions. sounds like you better get busy...:D

a little early isn't it?..or anytime after 9am gets you started?
 
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patricknd said:
those wascally wepubs know all the twicks :D

if you want to get 10's of millions into your 401k you have to make 10's of millions. sounds like you better get busy...:D

In reality if you are going to get tens of millions into you 401k your will have to make 40 or 50 million.... so Red better pick the right powerball numbers.:)
 
Michielveedeebee said:

He's a little alarmist, but he brings up some compelling points, especially when it comes to reliance on fossil fuels.

Reminded me a little of Collapse, with Michael Ruppert. Rifkin may have more scientific credentials, but I disagree with him on the hydrogen based economy. That's thinking way far out in the distance, likely over 100 years, when we need to prepare for the next 10-50 years. And the solution for that is a combination of nuclear, solar and wind power, and greater use of electricity for power in utilities, and things like cars, heat even.
 
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redtreviso said:
The problem is we have a congress/government that only concerns itself with the interests of those who already are accommodated for disproportionally. Once again I site Bill Frist who said we could not raise minimum wage unless there was a tax break for the wealthy..To the frist types it is US vs Them always..There's no way the "wealthy" are effected by a minimum wage hike.

The problem is we have a congress/government that only concerns itself with the interests of those who already are accommodated for disproportionally.

Yes, but more to the point we have a congress/govt that only concerns itself with those entities that can pay for their political aspirations... which is one of the reasons I'm so against these folks designing a national heathcare plan, among other things.

Once again I site Bill Frist who said we could not raise minimum wage unless there was a tax break for the wealthy..To the frist types it is US vs Them always..There's no way the "wealthy" are effected by a minimum wage hike.

Near as I can tell Bill Frist speaks for only Bill Frist. Trying to draw a link between minimum wage and a top marginal tax rate reduction is,at best, stupid.

There are a lot of unintended consequences with minimum wage rules. Have you looked at youth unemployment (particularly among minority kids)? There really is no such thing as an entry level job anymore.
 
Feb 25, 2010
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Alpe d'Huez said:
He's a little alarmist, but he brings up some compelling points, especially when it comes to reliance on fossil fuels.

Reminded me a little of Collapse, with Michael Ruppert. Rifkin may have more scientific credentials, but I disagree with him on the hydrogen based economy. That's thinking way far out in the distance, likely over 100 years, when we need to prepare for the next 10-50 years. And the solution for that is a combination of nuclear, solar and wind power, and greater use of electricity for power in utilities, and things like cars, heat even.

They indeed sound very alike.
If things really are as serious as he claims and the climate change is that rapid and big, we need to start making changes as soon as possible... whether or not it'll be finalised in 100 years is less important imo...
 
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