World Politics

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Jul 23, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
It is also a myth that a single black mother with 8 children and no job is the typical welfare recipient.
I have not had experience with the single black mother much - never has been m picture at all. Because welfare includes food stamps it certainly involves a large number of low income working people, throw in worker's compensation and you add a lot more, however, the abuse of the system is unbelievable.

Basically there are large numbers of people on welfare that believe it would be stupid not to cheat to add as much government subsidies to their income as possible. In addition we have a corporate welfare subsidies as well (the largest were funded over the past year), those companies ar certainly not immune to a culture of dependence on government aid and an attempt to take full advantage (see the King of California - a good read about the Boswell cotton empire).

I cannot give you statistics on the actual percentage of fraud because they do not exist - so that leaves me with the life experiences I have (and not all are from work). I still maintain that welfare for a large number of recipients is generational in nature, and has become a part of the recipient's culture (no matter what race).
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Laszlo said:
why not compare the homicide rates between the States and her northern neightbour ? State boundaries are fairly meaningless to those who do not respect the law; national boundaries have a bit more effect.
They also have far less welfare, are significantly homogeneous - do not have a culture of gang violence, and are too cold to wast energy fighting with each other.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
buckwheat said:
Why Barney Frank and why not GWB?

Can you imagine the State's rights, SCOTUS conservative justices overruling the Florida Supreme Court and stopping the recount, had Gore been ahead? If you say yes, you're beyond a doubt, an incredible liar.

Then in 2004, Ohio Secretary of State guarantees he'll deliver an Ohio victory for GWB, and delivers on that promise. This is ok?

Starting illegal wars and torturing people is ok by you?

Oh, but Barney Frank has overstepped the line. Whatever dude.
You guys really need to get over the 2000 election.

Illegal wars and torture... How many UN resolutions were there? 17 I think.
Waterboarding? Yes, that is waayyy over the top, especially in the case of KSM.

Barney Frank is front and center "fixing" what he helped destroy. It's so easy for you to wag your finger at the private sector and give a pass to a corrupt politician who forced conditions for the financial destruction to occur. And he just 'stepped over the line'?

You and I will not agree on much (anything), but can we start by saying corruption is just as bad in the public sector as private?
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Bala Verde said:
I don't think food stamps and xxx$ per month are a reward of any kind, I don't think beneficiaries perceive it as a reward - although they might get accustomed to it and come to see it as an entitlement - and I don't think people in general perceive it as a reward they can expect in case their irresponsible behavior backfires.

People - especially the young - generally have magical ideas of the future, and I doubt many would therefore intentionally choose the life of irresponsibility and dream of ending up living off welfare.
I do not see it as a reward - of course people who have a history of working and perhaps lost their job do not see welfare in the same way as someone who grew up on it. But it goes back to a general human nature to get the most benefit for the least effort. This is why, and how, I see the welfare system becoming generational in nature.

As for the young person who only knows a life of welfare, they do not dream of getting their first check (or card as is the case now days) but they also do not dream of working at McDonald's either. Hollywood has introduced the idea that everyone should have a new car, work very little, and party all of the time. So, like many of the people I see fresh out of law school, I do not see most dreaming of a life full of hard work and responsibility either.
 
Sep 24, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
I'm not sure what to think of Greenspan. You can lay all of this economic turmoil at his feet if you want, but I'd politely ask you to look at the community development act that essentially forced lenders to loan money to folks who could not pay it back. Is that Greenspan's fault?
So I'll tell you what to think of Greenspan. He's a disciple of Milton Friedman, the Godfather of Voodoo economics. As for the community development act, this is another distortion by you. The banks were MORE than willing participants in the loans made. Are you suggesting their arms were twisted to make these loans? That's the laugh of the century. I seem to remember REFI marketing pressures EVERYWHERE I went, even when I walked in the bank itself. Yeah right, the banks were trying to avoid making those loans. What a joke.

Scott SoCal said:
I stay out of the religion part, so you can direct those comments elswhere.
How convenient of YOU. Conservatives and Republicans have been on this moral majority and conservative Christian bs for Decades. That's why GWB got in the WH after Clinton's dalliances with Lewinsky. Without their "moral" spin on things GWB would never have been POTUS and jeez, we probably would have an infinetesimal fraction of the deficit we now have as a worst case scenario.

I'm all for leaving Religion up to the individual but it's your party and likeminded people that want to inject it into every aspect of American life.

I myself don't have much problem with that and I know that Republicans have perverted the nature and spirit of Christianity far more than some poor ******* on the street.

Anyway, don't suggest that I have brought up this topic and inserted into political consciousness.

It's your side that talks Christian, but walks Corporate.
.

Scott SoCal said:
After three tries at suggesting tax cuts in a down economy are beneficial in terms of economic expansion and job creation you still try and spin my comments to suggest something other than what is my point... I'll just leave it at that.

Best of luck to you. We just disagree.
Because cutting Capital gains taxes will only succeed in lowering government revenues. The equity markets are well on their way to recovery and yet the employment picture is horrendous with no signs of getting better.

Someone is starving on the street in desperate need of shelter and your idea is to offer a capital gains tax reduction in hopes someone playing the speculative markets will take profits and that will help people in emergency situations? Damn, I think GWB wanted to help the victims of Katrina by cutting capital gains taxes. The city would drain quicker when some millionaire calls up EF Hutton and dumps a couple thousand shares of Microsoft.

This is why GHWB called it Voodoo economics. Even your own guys know it's bs.
 
Sep 24, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
You guys really need to get over the 2000 election.
Get over it? Are you insane? Decisions of the SCOTUS live in perpetuity and in fact much of our law is based on precedents they set. This is one reason why Bush v. Gore is absolutely fraudulent. Because the majority trumped existing laws and the majority criminally wrote that their decision set no precedent at all.

You ever stop to think that without a vote there is No Democracy?

Scott SoCal said:
Illegal wars and torture... How many UN resolutions were there? 17 I think..
The Iraq war is illegal and none of your obfuscations can change that fact. The National Intelligence Estimate based on the reports of 16 agencies stated explicitly that Iraq was NOT a threat to our security. Then of course you had GWB intentionally conflating the Hussein and 9/11, intentionally scaring the bejeesus out of people.





Scott SoCal said:
You and I will not agree on much (anything), but can we start by saying corruption is just as bad in the public sector as private?
No, the private sector is much more corrupt and is an active force in corrupting government.

Is the private sector enforcing laws and prosecuting its corruption? There's very little if any self policing by the private sector so I would say this is the biggest lie you're trying to advance.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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buckwheat said:
As for the community development act, this is another distortion by you. The banks were MORE than willing participants in the loans made. Are you suggesting their arms were twisted to make these loans? That's the laugh of the century. I seem to remember REFI marketing pressures EVERYWHERE I went, even when I walked in the bank itself. Yeah right, the banks were trying to avoid making those loans. What a joke.
The CRA bogeyman is conservative bigots latest version of "blame the brown people". 80% of mortgage loans in the last lending cycle were handed out by institutions that were not subject to the CRA. Funny how it's all the fault of minorities but somehow all the profits ended up in the pockets of white fatcats on Wallstreet.
 
Sep 24, 2009
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CentralCaliBike said:
They did, although, unlike health care - security is the foundation of civilization (why we decided to have government in the first place). My job is to ensure that you do not have a murderer living next door.
Security is the foundation of civilization? What, are we all living in, Police States?

Didn't we (the U.S.) decide to have government in order to form a more perfect Union? to establish Justice? Insure domestic tranquility? Provide for the Common Defense? Promote the General Welfare? Secure the blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity?

What was it that Franklin said about those who would sacrifice liberty for Security?

You should really take a citizenship class.
 
Sep 24, 2009
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BroDeal said:
The CRA bogeyman is conservative bigots latest version of "blame the brown people". 80% of mortgage loans in the last lending cycle were handed out by institutions that were not subject to the CRA. Funny how it's all the fault of minorities but somehow all the profits ended up in the pockets of white fatcats on Wallstreet.

Hey Bro!

What I don't get are the Michael Steele's, Ken Blackwell's, Clarence Thomas's and Log Cabin Republicans of this world.

Is it just the money and power for them? Perhaps you can shed some light on this phenomena because they are inscrutable to me.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
buckwheat said:
So I'll tell you what to think of Greenspan. He's a disciple of Milton Friedman, the Godfather of Voodoo economics. As for the community development act, this is another distortion by you. The banks were MORE than willing participants in the loans made. Are you suggesting their arms were twisted to make these loans? That's the laugh of the century. I seem to remember REFI marketing pressures EVERYWHERE I went, even when I walked in the bank itself. Yeah right, the banks were trying to avoid making those loans. What a joke.



How convenient of YOU. Conservatives and Republicans have been on this moral majority and conservative Christian bs for Decades. That's why GWB got in the WH after Clinton's dalliances with Lewinsky. Without their "moral" spin on things GWB would never have been POTUS and jeez, we probably would have an infinetesimal fraction of the deficit we now have as a worst case scenario.

I'm all for leaving Religion up to the individual but it's your party and likeminded people that want to inject it into every aspect of American life.

I myself don't have much problem with that and I know that Republicans have perverted the nature and spirit of Christianity far more than some poor ******* on the street.

Anyway, don't suggest that I have brought up this topic and inserted into political consciousness.

It's your side that talks Christian, but walks Corporate.
.



Because cutting Capital gains taxes will only succeed in lowering government revenues. The equity markets are well on their way to recovery and yet the employment picture is horrendous with no signs of getting better.

Someone is starving on the street in desperate need of shelter and your idea is to offer a capital gains tax reduction in hopes someone playing the speculative markets will take profits and that will help people in emergency situations? Damn, I think GWB wanted to help the victims of Katrina by cutting capital gains taxes. The city would drain quicker when some millionaire calls up EF Hutton and dumps a couple thousand shares of Microsoft.

This is why GHWB called it Voodoo economics. Even your own guys know it's bs.
The banks were 'encouraged' to make loans to folks who before the community development act would never have qualified to borrow money to buy a home. The resulting tweak to the market put buyers in the market that were not there before. GSE's making sure all was smooth until a huge correction. Blame it all on Greenspan. I don't care. That is not the entire picture and something Friedman would not have encouraged.

For the last time, capital gains put more capital in the hands of those in a position to create jobs. Capital gains effects a lot more than stock trasactions. Expansion of business, starting new ones... What is the difference if there is less revenue to the treasury or if we spend ourselves into oblivion? The stimulus has not worked has it? $787bn. The White House has had to invent a term never before heard... 'saved job'. It's insulting.

You may want to look at what happened to treasury revenue after JFK, Reagan and GWB lowered taxes. It may surprise you.

Someone starving on the street has a different set of needs than somone looking for a job, no? I don't know of anyone liberal or conservative who does not want to help someone starving on the street. The difference is conservatives want to help them be productive and self sufficient. Liberals don't seem to think in those terms.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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buckwheat said:
Hey Bro!

What I don't get are the Michael Steele's, Ken Blackwell's, Clarence Thomas's and Log Cabin Republicans of this world.

Is it just the money and power for them? Perhaps you can shed some light on this phenomena because they are inscrutable to me.
That is a good question. I don't have a clue what Michael Steele and his ilk get out of it. It must be very uncomfortable hanging with their black friends--if they have any. I suspect the Log Cabin Republicans are looking to hook up with some of those upright, moral Republican politicians and preachers who continually get caught with their knobs in the cookie jar.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
buckwheat said:
Get over it? Are you insane? Decisions of the SCOTUS live in perpetuity and in fact much of our law is based on precedents they set. This is one reason why Bush v. Gore is absolutely fraudulent. Because the majority trumped existing laws and the majority criminally wrote that their decision set no precedent at all.

You ever stop to think that without a vote there is No Democracy?



The Iraq war is illegal and none of your obfuscations can change that fact. The National Intelligence Estimate based on the reports of 16 agencies stated explicitly that Iraq was NOT a threat to our security. Then of course you had GWB intentionally conflating the Hussein and 9/11, intentionally scaring the bejeesus out of people.







No, the private sector is much more corrupt and is an active force in corrupting government.


Is the private sector enforcing laws and prosecuting its corruption? There's very little if any self policing by the private sector so I would say this is the biggest lie you're trying to advance.


I'm well aware of precedents set by the Supreme Court. There are some decisions conservatives have problems with too. I'll leave it to you to guess which ones they are.

I seem to remember Clinton's (both of them) talking about the WMD's Iraq had and the threat. In fact I think Hillary voted for the war resolution. Illegal? Maybe she should go to jail too.

It's hard to argue with you when you write stuff that is simply not true. There are many self-regulatory agencies all over private industry. Try getting a Securities License sometime.

Government is great and uncorrupt; For profit business is bad and corrupt. Got it.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
BroDeal said:
The CRA bogeyman is conservative bigots latest version of "blame the brown people". 80% of mortgage loans in the last lending cycle were handed out by institutions that were not subject to the CRA. Funny how it's all the fault of minorities but somehow all the profits ended up in the pockets of white fatcats on Wallstreet.
Are you even capable of looking at other arguments without the name calling?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
I seem to remember Clinton's (both of them) talking about the WMD's Iraq had and the threat. In fact I think Hillary voted for the war resolution. Illegal? Maybe she should go to jail too.
Lots of people voted for war after the Bush administration concocted a pack of lies to justify an unprovoked invasion of another country. Heck, Cheney is still out there lying about the situation. He'll probably go to his grave still claiming Saddam was in league with Bin Laden, Papa Smurf, and Count Chocula.
 
Sep 24, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
The banks were 'encouraged' to make loans to folks who before the community development act would never have qualified to borrow money to buy a home. The resulting tweak to the market put buyers in the market that were not there before. GSE's making sure all was smooth until a huge correction. Blame it all on Greenspan. I don't care. That is not the entire picture and something Friedman would not have encouraged.

For the last time, capital gains put more capital in the hands of those in a position to create jobs. Capital gains effects a lot more than stock trasactions. Expansion of business, starting new ones... What is the difference if there is less revenue to the treasury or if we spend ourselves into oblivion? The stimulus has not worked has it? $787bn. The White House has had to invent a term never before heard... 'saved job'. It's insulting.

You may want to look at when happened to treasury revenue after JFK, Reagan and GWB lowered taxes. It may surprise you.

Someone starving on the street has a different set of needs than somone looking for a job, no? I don't know of anyone liberal or conservative who does not want to help someone starving on the street. The difference is conservatives want to help them be productive and self sufficient. Liberals don't seem to think in those terms.
More outright distortions!

When Kennedy came into office in 1961, the top marginal rate of individual income tax was 91%, compared with 39.6% today. The top corporate rate was 52%; today it is 35%, with much ampler depreciation allowances.

Like ACRS!

http://www.msjc.edu/econ/jfk022502.htm

Try harder! As for your other stuff, just outright nonsense.

Republicans under Reagan taught people to become more self sufficient by cutting college aid (Pell Grants) and throwing the mentally ill onto the streets.

Thanks for the lessons!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
buckwheat said:
More outright distortions!

When Kennedy came into office in 1961, the top marginal rate of individual income tax was 91%, compared with 39.6% today. The top corporate rate was 52%; today it is 35%, with much ampler depreciation allowances.

Like ACRS!

http://www.msjc.edu/econ/jfk022502.htm

Try harder! As for your other stuff, just outright nonsense.

Republicans under Reagan taught people to become more self sufficient by cutting college aid (Pell Grants) and throwing the mentally ill onto the streets.

Thanks for the lessons!
So your position is revenues to the treasury did not increase when marginal tax rates were cut during the administrations mentioned? Ok.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
buckwheat said:
So I'll tell you what to think of Greenspan. He's a disciple of Milton Friedman, the Godfather of Voodoo economics. As for the community development act, this is another distortion by you. The banks were MORE than willing participants in the loans made. Are you suggesting their arms were twisted to make these loans? That's the laugh of the century. I seem to remember REFI marketing pressures EVERYWHERE I went, even when I walked in the bank itself. Yeah right, the banks were trying to avoid making those loans. What a joke.



How convenient of YOU. Conservatives and Republicans have been on this moral majority and conservative Christian bs for Decades. That's why GWB got in the WH after Clinton's dalliances with Lewinsky. Without their "moral" spin on things GWB would never have been POTUS and jeez, we probably would have an infinetesimal fraction of the deficit we now have as a worst case scenario.

I'm all for leaving Religion up to the individual but it's your party and likeminded people that want to inject it into every aspect of American life.

I myself don't have much problem with that and I know that Republicans have perverted the nature and spirit of Christianity far more than some poor ******* on the street.

Anyway, don't suggest that I have brought up this topic and inserted into political consciousness.

It's your side that talks Christian, but walks Corporate.
.



Because cutting Capital gains taxes will only succeed in lowering government revenues. The equity markets are well on their way to recovery and yet the employment picture is horrendous with no signs of getting better.

Someone is starving on the street in desperate need of shelter and your idea is to offer a capital gains tax reduction in hopes someone playing the speculative markets will take profits and that will help people in emergency situations? Damn, I think GWB wanted to help the victims of Katrina by cutting capital gains taxes. The city would drain quicker when some millionaire calls up EF Hutton and dumps a couple thousand shares of Microsoft.

This is why GHWB called it Voodoo economics. Even your own guys know it's bs.
You forgot to add that GWB ordered those fighters out of Kessler Air Force Base to bomb the levees in East New Orleans. GWB was powering Katrina the entire time! He ordered the FEMA to stand back and do nothing.
 
Sep 24, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
I'm well aware of precedents set by the Supreme Court. There are some decisions conservatives have problems with too. I'll leave it to you to guess which ones they are.

I seem to remember Clinton's (both of them) talking about the WMD's Iraq had and the threat. In fact I think Hillary voted for the war resolution. Illegal? Maybe she should go to jail too.

It's hard to argue with you when you write stuff that is simply not true. There are many self-regulatory agencies all over private industry. Try getting a Securities License sometime.

Government is great and uncorrupt; For profit business is bad and corrupt. Got it.
Nice hysterics. I'll point out the obvious that it's a conflict of interest to have the subjects of regulations paying the regulators for regulatory services. Kind of ironic how fundemental auditing practices apply to everyone but the auditors/regulators.

By the way, I have a Series 3 license and talk about Corruption. An incredible example of the private sector corrupting a Federal regulatory agency, in this case, the CFTC, which is at the root of our current crisis.

The SEC delegating their authority to the AICPA is another instance. Funny, the Arthur Andersen guys were telling me that their audits were guided by "professional ethics." They didn't disagree with me when I told them that the whole CPA profession is undermined by the most obvious conflict of interest there is. The subject of their audits pay them for their opinions. Odd how one of the most fundemental auditing tests is to check for "segregation of duties."

Where are those Arthur Andersen auditors now?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
BroDeal said:
Lots of people voted for war after the Bush administration concocted a pack of lies to justify an unprovoked invasion of another country. Heck, Cheney is still out there lying about the situation. He'll probably go to his grave still claiming Saddam was in league with Bin Laden, Papa Smurf, and Count Chocula.

This is true. Iraq never ever had any chemical weapons. That was just propaganda created under the first Bad Bush.

Clinton kept it going because he had to stop the crazy bombing Christians from finding that blue dress with the gakk on it.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
Are you even capable of looking at other arguments without the name calling?
Bigots should be called exactly what they are. They should not be allowed to hide under the cover of euphemism or to think that people will be too polite to call them on their vile views.

The CRA issue is completely bogus. 80% of the mortages given out during the housing bubble were not subject to the CRA. What is more, the Federal Reserve found that loans affected by the CRA made up only 6% of problem mortgages. Perhaps you can explain why you want to blame brown people instead of blaming those who the bulk of mortgates went to or, even better, the people at the top who found they could make a mint by giving out loans that had little chance of being repaid.

Blaming minorities has been long typical for conservatives and was insitutionalized into Republican Party policy with the Southern Strategy. It is not an accident that the Republican Party has morphed into the the party of old, white men who wish it were still 1950. Unfortunately for them as the country becomes ever more diversified their party moves ever further from the mainstream of America.
 
Sep 24, 2009
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Riley Martin said:
You forgot to add that GWB ordered those fighters out of Kessler Air Force Base to bomb the levees in East New Orleans. GWB was powering Katrina the entire time! He ordered the FEMA to stand back and do nothing.
Really? there were no bombers. That didn't happen.

Oh right, just more hysterical silliness.

I think GWB had faith in the rising waters and Mother Nature to do his dirty work though.

It seemed that way when he was looking down at the catastrophe from Air Force One on his way to his fund raiser and McCain's birthday party in California.

I know, I know, the thugs took over the Superdome. Crazy how Bush could start an illegal war but he couldn't get the top secret, non existent Delta to go from Fort Bragg to restore order in NO. They can respond anywhere in the world in 36 hours, but they couldn't get to New Orleans. No one would have known anyway, Delta doesn't exist.

BTW, "great job Brownie!"
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
buckwheat said:
More outright distortions!

When Kennedy came into office in 1961, the top marginal rate of individual income tax was 91%, compared with 39.6% today. The top corporate rate was 52%; today it is 35%, with much ampler depreciation allowances.

Like ACRS!

http://www.msjc.edu/econ/jfk022502.htm

Try harder! As for your other stuff, just outright nonsense.

Republicans under Reagan taught people to become more self sufficient by cutting college aid (Pell Grants) and throwing the mentally ill onto the streets.

Thanks for the lessons!
Regan was a movie star hack! After that fool became president Terrorism jumped to an all time high. Regan protected the Shah of Iran and gave him “cancer treatment” / refuge here in America. Then the students revolted and took our Hostages.
There were countless terrorism attacks and Hijackings against us when that guy was president.

Don’t forget when Regan started that stupid campaign about buying foreign made products! He practically crippled the US economy all by himself. If it was not for Jimmy Carter this country would have been embarrassed to call itself the USA.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
BroDeal said:
Bigots should be called exactly what they are. They should not be allowed to hide under the cover of euphemism or to think that people will be too polite to call them on their vile views.

The CRA issue is completely bogus. 80% of the mortages given out during the housing bubble were not subject to the CRA. What is more, the Federal Reserve found that loans affected by the CRA made up only 6% of problem mortgages. Perhaps you can explain why you want to blame brown people instead of blaming those who the bulk of mortgates went to or, even better, the people at the top who found they could make a mint by giving out loans that had little chance of being repaid.

Blaming minorities has been long typical for conservatives and was insitutionalized into Republican Party policy with the Southern Strategy. It is not an accident that the Republican Party has morphed into the the party of old, white men who wish it were still 1950. Unfortunately for them as the country becomes ever more diversified their party moves ever further from the mainstream of America.
You are right!

Most of the mortgages went out to the Mayonaise sandwich eating, John Cougar Mellencamp listening, FOX news watching, trailer park living fools, who voted for GWB.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
buckwheat said:
Really? there were no bombers. That didn't happen.

Oh right, just more hysterical silliness.

I think GWB had faith in the rising waters and Mother Nature to do his dirty work though.

It seemed that way when he was looking down at the catastrophe from Air Force One on his way to his fund raiser and McCain's birthday party in California.

I know, I know, the thugs took over the Superdome. Crazy how Bush could start an illegal war but he couldn't get the top secret, non existent Delta to go from Fort Bragg to restore order in NO. They can respond anywhere in the world in 36 hours, but they couldn't get to New Orleans. No one would have known anyway, Delta doesn't exist.

BTW, "great job Brownie!"
You will not be able to convince me that the Bush Administration done a good job in the Crescent City. Population considered it effected many of the people in the Greater New Orleans area. The real devastation was on the Mississippi Gulf Coast where entire city’s and towns were destroyed.

The Superdome was a poor choice by a good Mayor. He was left with no other “last resort” option. The governments response was not even poor it was a “Fail”.

WHAT is more embarrassing is BOTH major Political Parties USING the Crescent City as a political pawn or podium!


“keep it cool”
 
Jul 22, 2009
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CentralCaliBike said:
They also have far less welfare, are significantly homogeneous - do not have a culture of gang violence, and are too cold to wast energy fighting with each other.
Thanks for the laugh, it warms me up in my igloo
 
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