World Politics

[CentralCaliBike]

Cali...you and I might agree via this as well...here in Vermont, the liberals want to shut down our only nuclear plant...to me, as someone looking at this...nuc energy is clean ( actually, incredibly clean...it meets the green points on man many ways and does so economically for poorer folks as well)but they are going forward to kill it...also, noone wants wind energy as they are concerned about their ridge line views...it just goes on and on...so maybe, just maybe, we use only coal powered ****...but I do recognize the problem with the left, believe me. But your side is disgusting as well, much more so in the idea of unlimited greed and just complete crap actually...it's the difference between knaves and scoundrels.

I have been advocating for Nuclear power since the 1970s as a teen. The green side did not want nuclear plants because of the risk of melt down. Then Three Mile Island came along and they convinced the majority and we are stuck here now. I figured that nuclear power has a lot more possibilities than the limitations on coal. Today, I believe that the concern over global warming is even farther off than the concern was over nuclear power - we are getting ready for a much bigger expense on science based on a theory that forgets the ice ages of the past and the the fact that the environment puts out a considerable amount of pollutants at a level man cannot even imagine. All it took was one flight over Mt Saint Helens in 1980 for me to come to the conclusion that one small volcano can throw a lot more CO2 into the atmosphere than all the cars from Henry Ford's time until now. Then there is solar activity and it's effect on mankind. With the email scandal it appears that the herd is starting to question global warming.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Another supporter of nuclear power here too. Nuclear power plants create a tremendous amount of power and last a long time. Three Mile Island leaked almost nothing. The unknown Simi-Valley leak was more than that. But the whole China Syndrome hysteria had taken over after TMI. The left and greens never mention that Jimmy Carter was a big advocate of nuclear power (and probably still is).

And like it or not, we can definitely dig a big hole in Nevada and put the waste there, covering it with lead and cement until it's inert, while we work on technology to speed that up.

Nuclear power, coupled with electric-hybrid cars, are the key towards energy independence over the next 50+ years, and we couldn't have to build a lot of them, as most people would charge said cars at night, in off hours. Solar and Wind are good, but they should be considered ancillary and very long term, over 25 years, with tidal, blue green algae, photosynthesis and fusion a century or so.

Not the e-mail thing again. Oh brother. Like pollution overall is not a problem, and we should go back to the days when the Cuyahoga and Ohio rivers caught fire. Great.

 

[Anonymous]

I have been advocating for Nuclear power since the 1970s as a teen. The green side did not want nuclear plants because of the risk of melt down. Then Three Mile Island came along and they convinced the majority and we are stuck here now. I figured that nuclear power has a lot more possibilities than the limitations on coal. Today, I believe that the concern over global warming is even farther off than the concern was over nuclear power - we are getting ready for a much bigger expense on science based on a theory that forgets the ice ages of the past and the the fact that the environment puts out a considerable amount of pollutants at a level man cannot even imagine. All it took was one flight over Mt Saint Helens in 1980 for me to come to the conclusion that one small volcano can throw a lot more CO2 into the atmosphere than all the cars from Henry Ford's time until now. Then there is solar activity and it's effect on mankind. With the email scandal it appears that the herd is starting to question global warming.

I didnt mean this at all...global warming is obviously real...as is Darwinism...but I do think the left, at least here in my own state ****s themself...nuclear power is the most clean thing you can have...all of europe pretty much does this and when I lived in Belgie we had tiny electric bills because of nukes ( good for the lower class when I was there as a student getting my phd in Philo)...wind is great...everyone here in Vermont, a liberal state, ex's it out...which is odd for us trying to be green state...hey,I am trying to back you up here actually.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

Not the e-mail thing again. Oh brother. Like pollution overall is not a problem, and we should go back to the days when the Cuyahoga and Ohio rivers caught fire. Great.

I remember LA in the early 1980s when I was visiting during Spring Break, I also have been to Mexico City on a couple of occasions. Not a fan of pollution, that is a reason to work towards cleaner air (which we definitely have today) but the global warming hoax is the trumpet for bankrupting an already bankrupt global economy when the pollution levels are far higher in countries that have absolutely no intention of utilizing clean power. Carbon credits are a cruel joke.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

I didnt mean this at all...global warming is obviously real...as is Darwinism...but I do think the left, at least here in my own state ****s themself...nuclear power is the most clean thing you can have...all of europe pretty much does this and when I lived in Belgie we had tiny electric bills because of nukes ( good for the lower class when I was there as a student getting my phd in Philo)...wind is great...everyone here in Vermont, a liberal state, ex's it out...which is odd for us trying to be green state...hey,I am trying to back you up here actually.

I figured you would be on the global warming band wagon but can agree on nuclear power, I like clean air too. The scare is out there to kill our industry while not thinking about the fact that most pollution is coming from the industrializing nations as opposed to those who have already gone through that period - but they want those of us who made it through to pay for those who have not without actually changing the pollution they are putting out there. They are not stupid and they are not going to pay for green technology themselves, global warming is the hoax to get the wealthy countries to pay for the rest on the theory they are really saving themselves. Unfortunately, corruption and greed will prevent a change in the pollution levels in China, India and several other industrializing nations for generations to come.

 

[Anonymous]

"If you look deep down inside you probably would find that we are all knaves and scoundrels"

The point is...between left and right...there is a hugh difference between knaves and scoundrels...

 

[Anonymous]

I figured you would be on the global warming band wagon but can agree on nuclear power, I like clean air too. the scare is out there to kill our industry while not thinking about the fact that most pollution is coming from the industrializing nations as opposed to those who have already gone through that period - but they want those of us who made it through to pay for those who have not without actually changing the pollution they are putting out there. They are not stupid and they are not going to pay for green technology themselves, global warming is the hoax to get the wealthy countries to pay for the rest on the theory they are really saving themselves. Unfortunately, corruption and greed will prevent a change in the pollution levels in China, India and several other industrializing nations for generations to come.

you figured wrong...even from the left...we are not idiots...

 

[CentralCaliBike]

"If you look deep down inside you probably would find that we are all knaves and scoundrels"

The point is...between left and right...there is a hugh difference between knaves and scoundrels...

Hitler on the right was a midget in murder in comparison to Stalin on the left. I just do not see either side being morally superior since we are all humans with the same basic nature.

 

[titan_90]

I have been advocating for Nuclear power since the 1970s as a teen. The green side did not want nuclear plants because of the risk of melt down. Then Three Mile Island came along and they convinced the majority and we are stuck here now. I figured that nuclear power has a lot more possibilities than the limitations on coal.

I am another left-winger that supports Nuclear power(something else we agree on).

 

[Hugh Januss]

I am another left-winger that supports Nuclear power(something else we agree on).

And another, although it can be a b!tch when it breaks down. Wind and solar are the best.

 

[Anonymous]

"the fact that most pollution is coming from the industrializing nations as opposed to those who have already gone through that period - but they want those of us who made it through to pay for those who have not without actually changing the pollution they are putting out there. They are not stupid and they are not going to pay for green technology themselves, global warming is the hoax to get the wealthy countries to pay for the rest on the theory they are really saving themselves."

welcome to your capitalism system my friend...it is all self serving...

 

[CentralCaliBike]

welcome to your capitalism system my friend...it is all self serving...

No argument - Democracy without the Constitution and Bill of Rights is the majority taking all from those who are not (might makes right), that is socialism, in my book, is democracy without protection of the individual - only you are looking at the majority looking at what those who have more, and figuring out a way to take it for themselves - then of course follows corruption and greed of the ruling elite.

 

[Hugh Januss]

"the fact that most pollution is coming from the industrializing nations as opposed to those who have already gone through that period - but they want those of us who made it through to pay for those who have not without actually changing the pollution they are putting out there. They are not stupid and they are not going to pay for green technology themselves, global warming is the hoax to get the wealthy countries to pay for the rest on the theory they are really saving themselves."

welcome to your capitalism system my friend...it is all self serving...

Or to look at it another way, we are trying to saddle emerging industrialized countries with controls and limitations that we never had when we were in that early stage.
PS. I don't believe it's a hoax.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I wouldn't say those e-mails make GW a "hoax". Though I have said all along it's not completely known, and overstated in that what warming there is, we can't do a lot about it other than what we should be doing anyway - polluting less because it's nice to have clean air. But a lot of Republicans fight this as well as it "impedes growth".

You are correct that increase in pollution comes from growing industrialized nations, such as India and China, with quadruple the people, and far less regulation than we have (though that's changing).

 

[titan_90]

No argument - Democracy without the Constitution and Bill of Rights is the majority taking all from those who are not (might makes right), that is socialism, in my book, is democracy without protection of the individual - only you are looking at the majority looking at what those who have more, and figuring out a way to take it for themselves - then of course follows corruption and greed of the ruling elite.

Have you seen the Frontline Video that Alpe posted yet? I am curious on how you see these systems perform in your definition of "protection of the individual".

 

[CentralCaliBike]

Have you seen the Frontline Video that Alpe posted yet? I am curious on how you see these systems perform in your definition of "protection of the individual".

Not yet - but I will probably watch it sometime this weekend.

 

[Cobblestones]

You want nuclear power? Capitalism has killed nuclear power. The problem is, nuclear power requires such a huge upfront investment when building the plant and the outcome is risky (in that it has to run at least 20-30 before it makes serious money) so that it is not a viable investment. It's just not attractive. It's no accident that countries like France, Japan, South Korea, Belgium and Sweden get a large percentage of their energy from nuclear power. Those are all countries where the government plays a large role in the economy.

Capitalism killed nuclear power, not the environmentalists (although they certainly didn't help)

 

[CentralCaliBike]

You want nuclear power? Capitalism has killed nuclear power. The problem is, nuclear power requires such a huge upfront investment when building the plant and the outcome is risky (in that it has to run at least 20-30 before it makes serious money) so that it is not a viable investment. It's just not attractive. It's no accident that countries like France, Japan, South Korea, Belgium and Sweden get a large percentage of their energy from nuclear power. Those are all countries where the government plays a large role in the economy.

Capitalism killed nuclear power, not the environmentalists (although they certainly didn't help)

Try getting a permit to build anything major in California and you are talking about years in the courts before getting the project off the ground - it just costs too much and it is the environmentalists who made sure it was not economically viable.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Here's what I think is pretty objective reporting of the leaked e-mails from CBS news:
Link Here.

I got the link wrong earlier where Carter talked about foreign oil and energy plans 30 years ago in his infamous "Malaise Speech". Here is the proper link. He starts talking about it around the 2:25 mark if anyone's interested.

Excellent documentary on Three Mile Island here. The one thing a lot of people don't know, or don't want to admit, is that if the engineers and technicians at TMI had not done a single thing when the first alarm went off, the reactor would have completely taken care of itself. There would have been no leak, no core damage, no partial meltdown, nothing. And we never would have heard anything about TMI other than those interested enough in nuclear power digging up info in NRC safety reports and learning a steam safety valve didn't properly close one day, the plant automatically shut down without incident, and the problem was fixed and tested before the planet operated again in a day or so.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

Here's what I think is pretty objective reporting of the leaked e-mails from CBS news:
Link Here.

I got the link wrong earlier where Carter talked about foreign oil and energy plans 30 years ago in his infamous "Malaise Speech". Here is the proper link. He starts talking about it around the 2:25 mark if anyone's interested.

Excellent documentary on Three Mile Island here. The one thing a lot of people don't know, or don't want to admit, is that if the engineers and technicians at TMI had not done a single thing when the first alarm went off, the reactor would have completely taken care of itself. There would have been no leak, no core damage, no partial meltdown, nothing. And we never would have heard anything about TMI other than those interested enough in nuclear power digging up info in NRC safety reports and learning a steam safety valve didn't properly close one day, the plant automatically shut down without incident, and the problem was fixed and tested before the planet operated again in a day or so.

Looks interesting - I guess I will have something to do after the ride tomorrow. Thanks.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Here's what I think is pretty objective reporting of the leaked e-mails from CBS news:
Link Here.

I got the link wrong earlier where Carter talked about foreign oil and energy plans 30 years ago in his infamous "Malaise Speech". Here is the proper link. He starts talking about it around the 2:25 mark if anyone's interested.

Excellent documentary on Three Mile Island here. The one thing a lot of people don't know, or don't want to admit, is that if the engineers and technicians at TMI had not done a single thing when the first alarm went off, the reactor would have completely taken care of itself. There would have been no leak, no core damage, no partial meltdown, nothing. And we never would have heard anything about TMI other than those interested enough in nuclear power digging up info in NRC safety reports and learning a steam safety valve didn't properly close one day, the plant automatically shut down without incident, and the problem was fixed and tested before the planet operated again in a day or so.

Really? I never read that. Is that true?
PS. I like the look of the San Onofre facility much better. Like two giant boobs on the beach.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

It's completely 100% true. Only when the techs at TMI misread the readings and shut off the emergency water did the core begin to slowly overheat. Watch the documentary and you'll see. I'd recommend the TMI documentary to anyone. (Skip Carter's malaise speech - he had foresight about energy, but it's pretty dull to be honest).

Yes, nukes are expensive to front, but you have to start looking at the big picture and comparisons overall. Compared to burning more coal and oil, they are a bit expensive. Compared to solar and wind, not so much. Even Al Gore isn't against nuclear power.

 

[titan_90]

It's completely 100% true. Only when the techs at TMI misread the readings and shut off the emergency water did the core begin to slowly overheat. Watch the documentary and you'll see. I'd recommend the TMI documentary to anyone. (Skip Carter's malaise speech - he had foresight about energy, but it's pretty dull to be honest).

Yes, nukes are expensive to front, but you have to start looking at the big picture and comparisons overall. Compared to burning more coal and oil, they are a bit expensive. Compared to solar and wind, not so much. Even Al Gore isn't against nuclear power.

I'll watch it tomorrow

 

[Anonymous]

You want nuclear power? Capitalism has killed nuclear power. The problem is, nuclear power requires such a huge upfront investment when building the plant and the outcome is risky (in that it has to run at least 20-30 before it makes serious money) so that it is not a viable investment. It's just not attractive. It's no accident that countries like France, Japan, South Korea, Belgium and Sweden get a large percentage of their energy from nuclear power. Those are all countries where the government plays a large role in the economy.

Capitalism killed nuclear power, not the environmentalists (although they certainly didn't help)

yeah...am I reading you wrong via irony? It was the socialistic governments who invested...in belgie, they have so much power, they light things all day long and people don't pay **** for thier electricity...and yet it is terribly clean....My god, did socialism do this? it just can't be...and no way would health care work like that right?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Read this amusing comment from Edward Teller on nuclear power safety. This is after TMI, and Jane Fonda was lobbying against nuclear power.

In an attempt to counter her efforts, nuclear physicist Edward Teller himself lobbied in favor of nuclear power, and the 71-year-old scientist eventually suffered a heart attack on May 8, 1979, which he later blamed on Fonda: "You might say that I was the only one whose health was affected by that reactor near Harrisburg. No, that would be wrong. It was not the reactor. It was Jane Fonda. Reactors are not dangerous."