World Politics

[FoxxyBrown1111]

So, the Friedman boys captured another country? This time they will do their "shock therapy" in Ukraine?
Of course they will.
No one with a working brain would think this was a true revolution, no matter if the western mainstream media says it was. No! That was done behind the curtain by the likes of Soros to get another country into depth and dependence of the US dominated IMF. The people of Ukraine won´t win. Only the oligarchs and some corrupt politic puppets a la Obama will. It won´t get better for the ordinary people, but will end up like in the Russia days of Jelzin.
If it was a true revolution, not 50.000 people in one place of Kiev would have been on the streets but millions all over the country. And the "revolution" would not have been over after 3 days with a puppet politican inserted to prostitute the country to the EU and US imperialists/capitalists. This phucker isn´t even elected by the people of Ukraine.
I just wonder how long Russia will take more beatdowns just in front of their doorstep until they hit back*... I wish them all the best, so that we have an even situation like in the good old days pre 1991.

* What you guys think would Obama do if Russia stages a coup against, let´s say Canada?...
So if Putin does not hit back this time, one thing is for sure: Russia is only a paper tiger, and the world is lost forever to the ever greedy tiny group of monster rich imperialists from the West. I can´t believe this, thus hope Russia will do something (to stop those psychos that hold the world hostage). Whatever that is...

 

[python]

So, the Friedman boys captured another country? This time they will do their "shock therapy" in Ukraine?
Of course they will.
No one with a working brain would think this was a true revolution,

sometimes i think you are a kgb agent but if seriously, only several posts above and 3 weeks ago i warned of your sentiment becoming a reality
“F--k the EU,” Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland said …’

the ever arrogant american politicians did not even bother to code their convo intercepted by the putin boys. guess what, who is the prime minister now after the 'revolution' ? yepp, the same guy nuland told the american ambassador HAS TO BE the pm = yatsenuk. a coincidence ? hardly.

no one should be naive that the latest ukrainian putsch was exclusively the plotting of a puppet europe headed by the evil americans. if it was a coup d'etat designed by the cia, there were plenty of objective reasons for the western ukrainians taking to the streets of kiev - from corruption to poverty to lack of jobs, yet, at the core of the event as they developed is the divided country, not dissimilar to many post-soviet ethnic conflicts.

45+ % living in the west and centre who speak ukrainian and are largely catholic took power via a street putsch over the 55% who live in south east and speak russian and are orthodox.

this delicate balance is a fact and is the consequence of the region's turbulent history. to be peacefully resolved, it needs a political maturity of nation in search of its identity and a cast of responsible leaders to adress the delicate situation.

in the 23 years of its independence, ukraine did not produce a single leader of the required stature. in stead, it became the tool between the west and russia playing their own geopolitical games.

the latest powers in ukraine committed exactly the same mistakes the previous powers did - tilted the divided country too much in one direction. judge for yourself. the first law they introduced was making the russian language illegal. then, they refused to curb mod attacks on the symbols of the eastern ukrainian history - monuments, flags and even their churches.

the current transitional government, in stead of smartly woooing the politicians from the east and south, contains not one single minister from the 'rival' regions. i dodn't think that the several extreme right politicians or the handful of outright anti-semites matter as much as virtually everyone in the new ruling bunch being vehemently anti-russian and anti- east ukrainian. there can be no more fertile ground for a civil war.

what the russians are doing in crimea is exploiting the overwhelmingly pro-russian separatist sentiments in response to the west pulling in kiev too hard.

i thought this brookings academic publication was brilliant explaining the situation in clear, cool facts.
Ukraine's Perpetual East-West Balancing Act

 

[python]

it looks like the posturing over the crimea may turn into a big armed mess.

vlad vladoch just received a go-ahead from his robber-stamp lawmakers to use armed forces. the formal authorization does not have such typical guards against the things getting out of control, like 'limited', 'temporary', 'surgical'...

quite opposite, it is timeless and is accompanied by the unprecedented war-like rhetoric and a request to recall russian ambassador from the us...means they are digging their heels in way BEFORE the west will coordinate a response.

my reading is that everything points out to vlad vladovich readying himself and his people to any escalation including a downright military confrontation with nato if such voices become prevailing.

this looks crazy, imo

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

... and who started the fire? As always? USA imperialists...
No I am not a KGB agent , but wanna live in peace & freedom with a normal live standard. The USA is the complete opposite. Everywhere they got in, they milked the poor more and destroyed the country more than the so-called dictators did before them.
Look at Chile, El Salvador, Guatamala, Africa, Irak, Eastern europe, some countries in Asia, etc.... Phuck, the whole EU soon is captured completely with the free trade contract. All the $hit that hasn´t come in yet, will come: Monsanto, privatisation of all social life and government, 24 hr surveillance of all and everybody...
"Dictators" like the one of Ukraine are bad. No doubt. But the ever greedy Friedman and Wall Street psychopaths are worse; They won´t stop before they own every inch of the world they can $uck.

 

[the asian]

This will end up with Crimea joining Russia and the Partition of Ukraine.

The Crimean Tatar's to be displaced as usual.

 

[RetroActive]

it looks like the posturing over the crimea may turn into a big armed mess.

vlad vladoch just received a go-ahead from his robber-stamp lawmakers to use armed forces. the formal authorization does not have such typical guards against the things getting out of control, like 'limited', 'temporary', 'surgical'...

quite opposite, it is timeless and is accompanied by the unprecedented war-like rhetoric and a request to recall russian ambassador from the us...means they are digging their heels in way BEFORE the west will coordinate a response.

my reading is that everything points out to vlad vladovich readying himself and his people to any escalation including a downright military confrontation with nato if such voices become prevailing.

this looks crazy, imo

It's been 10+ yrs. in the making with the Anglo-American/Nato encircling of Russia, and now the noose gets tighter. What choice does Putin have with the empire knocking on his door in the Ukraine now? What would the U.S. do if something similar was happening in Mexico or Canada with Russian support? Russia has never stopped being the last man standing to oppose total global domination. There's bad and worse at work unfortunately.

From the way back machine - remember the colour revolutions? Boris Berezovsky died last yr. but the game continues, as we've just seen.
Russian Godfathers 1: The Fugitive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1Cib5FMq9A

Let's not forget that the U.S. and Russia are on first strike footings, crazy yes.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Let's not forget that the U.S. and Russia are on first strike footings, crazy yes.

The self proclaimed "peace", "freedom" and "democracy" loving "gods own country" never interrupted their 24 hr hair trigger alert against Russia.
Just hope Putin finally stops this arrogant basterds who can´t get enough. I think with capturing the Ukraine they took one step too much. Just megalomaniacals.

 

[RetroActive]

The self proclaimed "peace", "freedom" and "democracy" loving "gods own country" never interrupted their 24 hr hair trigger alert against Russia.
Just hope Putin finally stops this arrogant basterds who can´t get enough. I think with capturing the Ukraine they took one step too much. Just megalomaniacals.

I don't see how Putin can stand aside and watch the Ukraine fall into the sort of chaos that seems inevitable. Pipelines assure a response if nothing else. This geo-political game has always been crazy but the Ukraine will bring it to a head for sure.

Throw in the Chinese and Japanese tensions...

It's a rather sad state of affairs actually.

 

[python]

What choice does Putin have with the empire knocking on his door in the Ukraine now? What would the U.S. do if something similar was happening in Mexico or Canada with Russian support?

not to argue with you, but this is a non-starter. totally. dont get me wrong, i am as a consistent critic of the american political arrogance as they come, but when a culture or a person or a civilization consider themselves/itself SUPERIOR by right, there is no way to appeal to their common sense by using SYMMETRY. 'it is the lower, less civilized societies privilege to be lectured on the subjects of democracy, law etc...' paradoxically, great many of good-matured, simple americans think that way. either way, there are enough of them, to consider your logic 'mad' b/c it does not fit their premise of superiority. historically, it takes a big knock in the teeth, to start readdressing the notions....

Let's not forget that the U.S. and Russia are on first strike footings, crazy yes.

that's what scares me - that russia may be ready to escalate the response to a threat of nuclear knock on the teeth...all, because, they got tired of being lectured. proud fools ?

 

[RetroActive]

not to argue with you, but this is a non-starter. totally. dont get me wrong, i am as a consistent critic of the american political arrogance as they come, but when a culture or a person or a civilization consider themselves/itself SUPERIOR by right, there is no way to appeal to their common sense by using SYMMETRY. 'it is the lower, less civilized societies privilege to be lectured on the subjects of democracy, law etc...' paradoxically, great many of good-matured, simple americans think that way. either way, there are enough of them, to consider your logic 'mad' b/c it does not fit their premise of superiority. historically, it takes a big knock in the teeth, to start readdressing the notions....


that's what scares me - that russia may be ready to escalate the response to a threat of nuclear knock on the teeth...all, because, they got tired of being lectured. proud fools ?

I couldn't agree more. The "just bomb them" attitude will end though, I don't know how or when but it's a certainty that at some point hubris meets nemesis. History is fun. We're all the proud fools in this game.

On another front Isreal will, of course, welcome this distraction to play it's own crazy gambit.
On the Brink of Another War? Israel To Hold Lebanon’s Government “Responsible” if Hezbollah Retaliates over Air Strikes
http://www.globalresearch.ca/on-the...hezbollah-retaliates-over-air-strikes/5371423

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

that's what scares me - that russia may be ready to escalate the response to a threat of nuclear knock on the teeth...all, because, they got tired of being lectured. proud fools ?

I like your posts since it seems you are not brainwashed by our western (owned by those who start the wars for "freedom and democracy") mainstream media.

But I have to disagree here. Actually it´s the other way around.
If someone is ready to use nuclear weapons, its the USA. They used them before, they did it again ("bunker busters"), but no one else did.
If Russia hadn´t their good old Topol ICBMs, USA long ago would have captured Russia too. They "only" go into and destroy countries that don´t own nuclear weapons. As sad as it sounds, but the best way to prevent US imperialists to phuck you from behind is to own nuclear weapons too.

 

[RetroActive]

I like your posts since it seems you are not brainwashed by our western (owned by those who start the wars for "freedom and democracy") mainstream media.

But I have to disagree here. Actually it´s the other way around.
If someone is ready to use nuclear weapons, its the USA. They used them before, they did it again ("bunker busters"), but no one else did.
If Russia hadn´t their good old Topol ICBMs, USA long ago would have captured Russia too. They "only" go into and destroy countries that don´t own nuclear weapons. As sad as it sounds, but the best way to prevent US imperialists to phuck you from behind is to own nuclear weapons too.

Yes, it's true, what's happening in the Ukraine is more than Russia being "lectured to". In fact Russia has been on the recieving end of provocative threats for years. I suppose it's a good thing that Putin has been playing chess and not checkers.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

The pro western propaganda wars in our media is on full scale. Not a single magazine does criticise the US/EU imperialists, but basically say Russia is the agressor. This reality twisting is so disgusting, that I hope now Putin kicks some asses. It´s over-due.

 

[shalgo]

In fact Russia has been on the recieving end of provocative threats for years.

Can you cite a single, specific threat that a western country has made to Russia in recent years?

 

[shalgo]

The pro western propaganda wars in our media is on full scale. Not a single magazine does criticise the US/EU imperialists, but basically say Russia is the agressor. This reality twisting is so disgusting, that I hope now Putin kicks some asses. It´s over-due.

Call me crazy, but Russia is the country sending its troops into Ukraine--nobody is sending troops into Russia. But maybe you have a different understanding of the word "aggressor."

 

[RetroActive]

Can you cite a single, specific threat that a western country has made to Russia in recent years?

Let's do a couple searches shall we:
https://www.google.ca/search?hl=en-...0...1.1.34.heirloom-hp..0.21.2469.4YO3TGhz2iw

https://www.google.ca/search?q=U.S......1.1.34.heirloom-serp..0.22.2731.DP_1ECSFcCo

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Call me crazy, but Russia is the country sending its troops into Ukraine--nobody is sending troops into Russia. But maybe you have a different understanding of the word "aggressor."

It seems you have. The "revolution" in Ukraine was the 2nd try (after the "orange revolution") to capture the Ukraine to get them under the IMF, western global working co-orperations and rules.
Russia OTOH has to save their military sections on the Krim. They defend themselves.
Now to the real aggressor:
The phucking USA. Either they capture countries directly (like Iraq, El Salvador (AFAIR in the name of the United Fruit Company), Guatemala, etc.), do it by financed "revolutions" (Egypt, Tunesia, Lybia,etc.), do it undercover via CIA (Chile, Argentina, countries of Asia, Congo & other african countries), or do it very subtile over decades (like most countries of western europe, especially Germany).
All in the name of big business. Some greedy guys from the USA just can´t get enough.
That´s why Putin/Russia is the last chance to stop those arrogant agressors.
There were only 3 US presidents that didn´t go to war. Noble peace prize winner Obama isn´t one of them. This traitor. Now you should know who the real aggressor is...

 

[shalgo]

Let's do a couple searches shall we:
https://www.google.ca/search?hl=en-...0...1.1.34.heirloom-hp..0.21.2469.4YO3TGhz2iw

https://www.google.ca/search?q=U.S......1.1.34.heirloom-serp..0.22.2731.DP_1ECSFcCo

So no examples of direct threats to Russia's territorial integrity. "Missile defense" as an act of aggression? Building a military base in another country? Not even close to being equivalent to an actual invasion, which is what Russia is doing in Ukraine.

 

[python]

... I suppose it's a good thing that Putin has been playing chess and not checkers.

funny you mentioned chess...

..i've been listening to a france24 news analyst soon after the russian senators gave putin the arms option. the lady analyst - with a name identical to a soviet leader but apparently unrelated - said, 'putin is a brilliant tactician but a lousy strategist'. after a quick reflection, i thought to myself, 'did't you get it in reverse, lady ?

in fact, all the recent conflicts or face-offs - from the 2008 south osetia/georgia/abkhazia war to snowden to the syrian chemical weapons - showed his excellent command of both the immediate (tactical) circumstances and the longer term (strategic) calculations. some illustrative examples:
-georgia, despite being humiliated militarily, had finally gotten rid of the war-starter president in favour of a guy who literally begs russia for trade and communication despite russia occupying 40% of what many call georgian territories. this is pure strategy looking back 6 years.

-snowden...is it really that hard to see that putin had gotten a thousand-fold of all sorts of strategic advantages by standing up to america when a short-sighted tactical calculation to bar him a political heaven by virtually everyone - from china to europe. the russians continue to upset the us relations with a host of allies like germany, brazil, india, france... dozens of countries..via owning and dozing snowden's info.

- everyone knows how putin changed the us 'bomb Syria attitude' via an elegant overnight proposal to have syria agree to chemical weapons illimination. this tactical gain continues to deliver putin many strategic benefits, like the image of a 'true disarmer'.

so, yes, i do recognize the chess element in the putin moves. his 'you blink first' calcs, his 'readiness to face the escalation', his message of the ease inciting the separatist movements in the south and east (as had indeed been happening all day today in donets, charchov in odessa with the russian flag being installed over ukrainian government buildings..)

the guy is a brilliant gamer, by any measure

 

[shalgo]

It seems you have. The "revolution" in Ukraine was the 2nd try (after the "orange revolution") to capture the Ukraine to get them under the IMF, western global working co-orperations and rules.

I know full well the history of American aggression, both overt and covert, around the globe. But I just don't see it happening here. You have greedy oligarchs who think it is better to ally with Europe vs. greedy oligarchs who think it is better to ally with Russia. It is just that only one set of oligarchs has friends who are willing to put troops on the ground, and that set certainly isn't the pro-western ones.

The people for whom I feel sorry are the ordinary people protesting in Kiev, who are sure to get screwed over by whichever side wins.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

So no examples of direct threats to Russia's territorial integrity. "Missile defense" as an act of aggression? Building a military base in another country? Not even close to being equivalent to an actual invasion, which is what Russia is doing in Ukraine.

And what does the USA do if things like that happen in front of their doorstep?
Right, they risk a global war like in the Cuba crises. So actually Russia is wayyy too calm to stop those aggressors.
And don´t doubt a second USA wouldn´t directly invade Russia. The only thing that stops them are Topols and other defensive ICBMs...

 

[hrotha]

Anti-Americanism blinds many people, including here.

Whatever the US or the EU did, the use of military force crosses the line twice, especially when it's justified using the most bogus and ridiculous reasons (they've spent the whole week trying to destabilize Ukraine with blatantly false accusations), as anyone who's been following this crisis through several sources from all sides will tell you. Putin knows the West is extremely unlikely to respond in the same manner: even if they agreed to send troops, the chances that they'd try to kick out the Russian soldiers from Crimea are infinitesimal, so worst case scenario he still gets to keep Crimea thanks to his policy of fait accompli.

It's simply an outrageous breach of international law and it calls for an appropriate response, which is not lame statements about how concerned everybody is.

edit: of course, whether the West gets involved should depend on whether or not Ukraine asks for help.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

The people for whom I feel sorry are the ordinary people protesting in Kiev, who are sure to get screwed over by whichever side wins.

I said that yesterday. If EU and US financed "revolutionists" would have kept quiet and leave things like they were, all would be peaceful.
Better be ruled by your own basterds than foreign ones. At least that´s what I think. And I guess most russians and people from the Ukraine see it the same way. It´s a thing of identity.
Hell, most of us germans don´t like this heteronomy from EUSSR and USA. We would prefer our own basterds too, than puppets like Merkel who rule in the name of big business and destroy all our social achievements.

 

[RetroActive]

So no examples of direct threats to Russia's territorial integrity. "Missile defense" as an act of aggression? Building a military base in another country? Not even close to being equivalent to an actual invasion, which is what Russia is doing in Ukraine.

You can call me cynical and I'll call you naive and perhaps we'll agree to disagree. Again, there's no way the U.S. would put up with a fraction of what Russia has been dealing with. As was pointed out by Foxy, the U.S. won't invade Russia directly as they can defend themselves but proxy wars, overt and covert, threatening Russian interests are all the rage and a new cold war is upon us and it's heating up quick. The military industrial complex loves it, keep the money flowing. However you want to slice it it's pretty sad and disgusting in my book. Just bad and worse playing stupid, dangerous games.

 

[RetroActive]

Anti-Americanism blinds many people, including here.

Whatever the US or the EU did, the use of military force crosses the line twice, especially when it's justified using the most bogus and ridiculous reasons (they've spent the whole week trying to destabilize Ukraine with blatantly false accusations), as anyone who's been following this crisis through several sources from all sides will tell you. Putin knows the West is extremely unlikely to respond in the same manner: even if they agreed to send troops, the chances that they'd try to kick out the Russian soldiers from Crimea are infinitesimal, so worst case scenario he still gets to keep Crimea thanks to his policy of fait accompli.

It's simply an outrageous breach of international law and it calls for an appropriate response, which is not lame statements about how concerned everybody is.

edit: of course, whether the West gets involved should depend on whether or not Ukraine asks for help.

I don't understand most of your post at all but to the bolded: Who is speaking for the Ukraine now? A group of revolutionaries sponsored by western interests that have pulled off a coup against a democratically elected government (bad as it may have been)?