World Politics

[Anonymous]

Hmmm. Obama was to end the Iraq war. Nope. Close Gitmo. Nope. War in Afghanistan? Expanded. $787bn stimulus plan promised unemployment not to exceed 8%... not so much. $1.56tn one-year deficit? Huge. Sign no bills with ear-marks... the last one he signed had nearly 9,000. Has an "economic summit" without much business representation (but plenty of unions). And this 'reality' goes on and on.

Seriously, how are we to get out of this debt?

I would suggest looking at the fact that as a percentage of GDP, we are nowhere near a historic high, and that we recovered from that. As to the war in Iraq, I think you should check the math on that one. As for the economy, we had the fastest growth in 6 years in the final quarter of 2009 (of course, that depresses you guys because your mantra is that Obama is making things worse...only the numbers are getting better. Spin it how you like, but that is a fact,), etc, etc, etc.

Economic growth combined with a reduction in spending on social programs as the economy improves is historically how it works. We will get out of the debt, and according to the numbers, that is what is happening as we speak. You guys always seem to prefer the big boogey man talk, but never seem to offer much in the way of constructive input. It is tiresome.

 

[Anonymous]

I would suggest looking at the fact that as a percentage of GDP, we are nowhere near a historic high, and that we recovered from that. As to the war in Iraq, I think you should check the math on that one. As for the economy, we had the fastest growth in 6 years in the final quarter of 2009 (of course, that depresses you guys because your mantra is that Obama is making things worse...only the numbers are getting better. Spin it how you like, but that is a fact,), etc, etc, etc.

Economic growth combined with a reduction in spending on social programs as the economy improves is historically how it works. We will get out of the debt, and according to the numbers, that is what is happening as we speak. You guys always seem to prefer the big boogey man talk, but never seem to offer much in the way of constructive input. It is tiresome.

Well, I'm tired too. You saw the show on Friday. Yet you regirg the "they don't have much input" BS. They don't have input because this President does not include them or their ideas.

Funny really. Slam the door in their face and then gripe about them not being in the room.

GDP up at Christmas time with an obscene amout of govt spending? Kinda like saying you're a millionaire when you just borrowed a million dollars.

 

[broken chain]

Political parties have nothing to do with the deficit.Whoever is in charge at the moment gets to mismanage.Greed,self interest and corruption run the country.
Things might change for a few generations if some middle class or less fortunate came into power.Eventually they would become corrupt also.
Democracy is its own worst enemy.
Its the "American Way",the "Do as I say,not as I do" mentality.
Having politicos in charge of all that cash is like putting children in charge of a chocolate factory.
Remember this,your vote decides who picks your pocket.
I'm totally amazed at how easily people are duped by politicians.Same goes for religion.People become sheeple.
Some smart person thousands of years ago figured out how to control the masses.Bread and games,bread and games.
Politicians don't think of what to say,they have teams of writers that make things up that people will like to hear.They just have that certain oratorical delivery that is unique and holds your attention.

 

[fatandfast]

I would suggest looking at the fact that as a percentage of GDP, we are nowhere near a historic high, and that we recovered from that. As to the war in Iraq, I think you should check the math on that one. As for the economy, we had the fastest growth in 6 years in the final quarter of 2009 (of course, that depresses you guys because your mantra is that Obama is making things worse...only the numbers are getting better. Spin it how you like, but that is a fact,), etc, etc, etc.

Economic growth combined with a reduction in spending on social programs as the economy improves is historically how it works. We will get out of the debt, and according to the numbers, that is what is happening as we speak. You guys always seem to prefer the big boogey man talk, but never seem to offer much in the way of constructive input. It is tiresome.

Boogieman is spending more than you need, Our defense spending should be what we need for security. Not a straight % of GDP.The real number is at a historical high. Example small aircraft,unmanned drones vs armored vehicles like M1s and Bradleys that Iraq has shown us are useless. We need one and not the other but we buy both out of habit. I worked on projects where our management urged us to use more cash than we needed to because next years amount was based on this years amount ever increasing. Show me a government employee or contractor that aid to the accounting office "we came in under budget" and I'll hand you a winning lotto ticket. Job creation is less than zero, seeing the surface when you are underwater doesn't equal getting air,closer to the surface sure, but still underwater. OMG social programs! controlled spending? Don't clear the bowl next time

 

[ravens]

interesting reading

Article titled:
The Obama Spell Is Broken
Unlike this president, John Kennedy was an ironist who never fell for his own mystique.
By FOUAD AJAMI

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704094304575029110104772360.html

 

[cyclevelo]

Give it to them Scott SoCal

We still see the Blame Bush approach of the Demos. When will Obama own the economy. To people questioning Healthcare. Please tell me how many people travel to Canada, UK or France for medical treatment. No so many. Healthcare is expensive because it isn't cheap for specialized medical treatment. Also isn't a company supposed to be making a profit. That is the reason there are companies. They are in business to make money. They also have stockholders. Do you believe stockholders are going to be happy and continue to buy stock if they are not making money. Oh, I see stockholders are going to buy stock just because of the work they do. It doesn't matter if they make get a return back.

Why should I pay higher taxes on someone who doesn't want to work hard and buy their own insurance. I made sure when I graduated college that I found a company that provided insurance. I could have found an easier job but I knew I needed insurance.

Has anyone heard the news about the new budget and the increase deficit. I believe the debt has increased to somewhere around 100+ of the GDP. That means if we owe more than everything that we sell in the US. If we sell everything that still wouldn't be enough to pay the deficit.

Demos are all the same. It is the Gov't's responsibility to provide everything for me. Republicans believe that is my responsibility to provide for myself.

 

[flicker]

Why did Obama not go after the banks and financial institutions? After all that is the core reason we are in this mess. Banks and unwinnable wars dragging us down........

 

[patricknd]

interesting reading

Article titled:
The Obama Spell Is Broken
Unlike this president, John Kennedy was an ironist who never fell for his own mystique.
By FOUAD AJAMI

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704094304575029110104772360.html

good article. interesting thought : how many votes did obama get because he is black, and how many votes did mccain get for the same reason? and is either any less wrong?

 

[ravens]

Stop putting Republicans in control.

Republicans have been out of power in both houses of congress for 4 years. they were only in control of both houses of congress from 2002 to 2006. They held a 1 vote majority in the senate from 2004 to 2006.

The congress is responsible for spending, not the president. This is the second time in 3 days where basic civics is lost in here.

Stop putting republicans in control? I think what you would like, based on how little power the republicans currently have and it's STILL a threat to whatever you espouse, is that you don't want them out of power but that you'd rather have them made completely illegal, except for when you need a convenient enemy to blame for when your policies fail, which is what they do, over and over and over.

 

[ravens]

good article. interesting thought : how many votes did obama get because he is black, and how many votes did mccain get for the same reason? and is either any less wrong?

The rationale for what makes one person vote for or against a person is nearly an impossible thing to figure out, particularly amongst 'the swing' voters who really hold those of us who are consistent in our ideas hostage to their whims. I have (jokingly) advoctated elsewhere when they lament what a disaster Obama has been compared to what they thought he would do that they need to fix their errors in the 2010 mid-term and 2012 presidential elections and never ever vote again.

Our elections are in the hands of emotional irrational unpredicatble people who don't even know why they vote for who they vote for.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

good article. interesting thought : how many votes did obama get because he is black, and how many votes did mccain get for the same reason? and is either any less wrong?

I don't think McCain received any votes because he is black

 

[patricknd]

I don't think McCain received any votes because he is black

he's not? hell i screwed up my vote

 

[patricknd]

The rationale for what makes one person vote for or against a person is nearly an impossible thing to figure out, particularly amongst 'the swing' voters who really hold those of us who are consistent in our ideas hostage to their whims. I have (jokingly) advoctated elsewhere when they lament what a disaster Obama has been compared to what they thought he would do that they need to fix their errors in the 2010 mid-term and 2012 presidential elections and never ever vote again.

Our elections are in the hands of emotional irrational unpredicatble people who don't even know why they vote for who they vote for.

it's the "my daddy voted (insert party) and his daddy before him" mentality.

 

[ravens]

it's the "my daddy voted (insert party) and his daddy before him" mentality.

that is the case for most people, I believe, I have some very rancorous debates with my own mom who always votes democratic because her dad told her that FDR saved the world.

But swing voters 'swing both ways', they do NOT vote based on familial attachments. they went for Bush in '04, put the dems in control of the senate in '06 and strengthened them in '08 and are nowswinging strongly the other way - people who are attached to Obama hate hearing this - but they are swinging back as a visceral dislike for Obama's dogmatic leadership and swinging back very strongly against anything to do with him.

On other boards that I post, I ask this question to those who are disenchanted after having voted for obama. What did you think he was going to do? I always get other people saying what they imagine they expected, but I never actually hear from them themselves. Nothing Obama has done has surprised me in the slightest, why are they surprised?

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

The rationale for what makes one person vote for or against a person is nearly an impossible thing to figure out, particularly amongst 'the swing' voters who really hold those of us who are consistent in our ideas hostage to their whims. I have (jokingly) advoctated elsewhere when they lament what a disaster Obama has been compared to what they thought he would do that they need to fix their errors in the 2010 mid-term and 2012 presidential elections and never ever vote again.

Our elections are in the hands of emotional irrational unpredicatble people who don't even know why they vote for who they vote for.

Well said. I agree completely.

On other boards that I post, I ask this question to those who are disenchanted after having voted for obama. What did you think he was going to do? I always get other people saying what they imagine they expected, but I never actually hear from them themselves. Nothing Obama has done has surprised me in the slightest, why are they surprised?

Exactly. They vote for a guy with absolutely no history of doing anything he says he'll do (reach across the aisle, transparency, etc) then are surprised when he doesn't do it and begins to lead with the far left agenda an uneducated voter knew he had from the get go.

Everything he's done (or not done), I've expected.

 

[BroDeal]

Exactly. They vote for a guy with absolutely no history of doing anything he says he'll do (reach across the aisle, transparency, etc) then are surprised when he doesn't do it and begins to lead with the far left agenda an uneducated voter knew he had from the get go.

Everything he's done (or not done), I've expected.

As long as he does not start any new wars, kidnap people to be tortured to death in secret prisons, and spy on American citizens, it's all good.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

As long as he does not start any new wars, kidnap people to be tortured to death in secret prisons, and spy on American citizens, it's all good.

Well if he uses tax payer money to hire attorneys to defend admitted terrorists rather than weapons to defend us from them, or to fund programs we don't need nor want limiting our personal freedoms, and further deepening the abyss that is the US debt, it's not all good.

 

[ravens]

As long as he does not start any new wars, kidnap people to be tortured to death in secret prisons, and spy on American citizens, it's all good.

Strawman arguments aside....It may be all good by your standard, and that is fine.

what we were discussing was the backlash against him and what those who are so opposed to him thought they were going to get.

As for your strawman arguments: failed to close gitmo as promised, failed to leave iraq as promised, held healthcare debate in secret, broken promise/lie, spies on american citizens who are political dissenters from dear Leader's utopian vision. I get the impression that he could pretty much do whatever he wanted and you would swallow his talking points hook line and sinker.

Like most 'progressives', their openmindedness ends when someone disagrees with them.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/...acebook-twitter-for-political-protesters.html

http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2...acebook-twitter-for-political-protesters.html

...and he is getting an 'F' on efforts to stop torture
http://www.myfox8.com/news/sns-ap-nc--torturereportcard,0,1332795.story

But it doesn't matter what he DOES, just as long as you like what he SAYS.

 

[BroDeal]

Well if he uses tax payer money to hire attorneys to defend admitted terrorists rather than weapons to defend us from them,

Too bad we have that pesky Constitution and its right to legal council. It would be much easier to just ship people off to Uzbekistan and have them boiled to death like good ol' Bush used to do.

 

[ravens]

Too bad we have that pesky Constitution and its right to legal council. It would be much easier to just ship people off to Uzbekistan and have them boiled to death like good ol' Bush used to do.

It's too bad we didn't have Miranda in world war 2, it would have resulted in so many fewer deaths.

It is going to be difficult to get a conviction of KSM, what with the president and Holder and Gibbs running around saying that we will get a conviction and he will be executed. Do they really want a conviction ...... ?

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

Too bad we have that pesky Constitution and its right to legal council. It would be much easier to just ship people off to Uzbekistan and have them boiled to death like good ol' Bush used to do.

Not this argument again. The US Constitution does not protect terrorists; it protects US citizens. Terrorists aren't even protected by the Geneva Conventions.

 

[scribe]

We still see the Blame Bush approach of the Demos. When will Obama own the economy. To people questioning Healthcare. Please tell me how many people travel to Canada, UK or France for medical treatment. No so many. Healthcare is expensive because it isn't cheap for specialized medical treatment. Also isn't a company supposed to be making a profit. That is the reason there are companies. They are in business to make money. They also have stockholders. Do you believe stockholders are going to be happy and continue to buy stock if they are not making money. Oh, I see stockholders are going to buy stock just because of the work they do. It doesn't matter if they make get a return back.

Why should I pay higher taxes on someone who doesn't want to work hard and buy their own insurance. I made sure when I graduated college that I found a company that provided insurance. I could have found an easier job but I knew I needed insurance.

Has anyone heard the news about the new budget and the increase deficit. I believe the debt has increased to somewhere around 100+ of the GDP. That means if we owe more than everything that we sell in the US. If we sell everything that still wouldn't be enough to pay the deficit.

Demos are all the same. It is the Gov't's responsibility to provide everything for me. Republicans believe that is my responsibility to provide for myself.

You know an awesome place right up your alley, ideally? Somalia. Every man for himself.

 

[ravens]

You know an awesome place right up your alley, ideally? Somalia. Every man for himself.

Obama's America will offer complete cradle to grave service. A guaranteed income (enough to survive, barely), guaranteed health insurance (but your Doctor will be Kevorkian), a long life, (unless it is determined that you are too expensive to keep alive), guaranteed medicine (unless it's expensive, then if you are too stupid not join a union and have your cadillac ins plan taxed at 45%, just take an aspirin and wait 6 months for an appointment), guaranteed freedom of speech (unless it criticizes the democrats).

It will work well until the class warfare drives the earners and producers to either leave the country or close up shop. And then it really will be Somalia.

 

[BroDeal]

Not this argument again. The US Constitution does not protect terrorists; it protects US citizens. Terrorists aren't even protected by the Geneva Conventions.

Yeah, the Nazis did not think Jews should be protected either.

 

[Anonymous]

Too bad we have that pesky Constitution and its right to legal council. It would be much easier to just ship people off to Uzbekistan and have them boiled to death like good ol' Bush used to do.

E N E M Y C O M B A T A N T

You can get up to speed here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_combatant


Here is more torture babble.

"The police repeatedly tortured prisoners, State Department officials wrote, noting that the most common techniques were "beating, often with blunt weapons, and asphyxiation with a gas mask." Separately, international human rights groups had reported that torture in Uzbek jails included boiling of body parts, using electroshock on genitals and plucking off fingernails and toenails with pliers. Two prisoners were boiled to death, the groups reported. The February 2001 State Department report stated bluntly, "Uzbekistan is an authoritarian state with limited civil rights."


http://www.americablog.com/2005/04/bush-still-having-prisoners-tortured.html


That's pretty convincing evidence right there. I mean, when I read "the groups reported", then I just knew.