World Politics

[auscyclefan94]

I'm sure ACF will be happy if Abbott gets in and he can enforce some good Christian values back into society

I find it weird being older than Wyatt Roy, I can't comprehend it!

Malcolm Turnbull is far too sensible to lead a major party.

Interesting that you can still bet on the outcome (who takes the Executive), Coalition @ 1.56 on Betfair.

I thought you were a Coalition supporter. Anyway, what is wrong with incorporating christian values into society? Everyone wants to go at him for wearing speedos and being a christian but then why doesn't someone have a go at Julia for not having her own family, failing and she speaks like a bogan.

 

[craig1985]

Tonight on ACA they compare frozen vegetables on quality and taste. You still rate that program ACF when it comes to politics?

 

[auscyclefan94]

Tonight on ACA they compare frozen vegetables on quality and taste. You still rate that program ACF when it comes to politics?

I am not disagreeing with you but neighbours is not a better alternative.

 

[craig1985]

I am not disagreeing with you but neighbours is not a better alternative.

Admire your vast collection of Cadel noodz then...

 

[Ferminal]

I thought you were a Coalition supporter. Anyway, what is wrong with incorporating christian values into society? Everyone wants to go at him for wearing speedos and being a christian but then why doesn't someone have a go at Julia for not having her own family, failing and she speaks like a bogan.

It's more political leaders taking away (or refusing to grant) liberties for citizens and trying to instruct people how to live their lives. The ALP is just as good at this, don't worry. But you criticise the Greens for having homosexual representatives yet they are the only major party who could be considered socially liberal.

 

[auscyclefan94]

It's more political leaders taking away (or refusing to grant) liberties for citizens and trying to instruct people how to live their lives. The ALP is just as good at this, don't worry. But you criticise the Greens for having homosexual representatives yet they are the only major party who could be considered socially liberal.

Socially liberal? The greens got a lot of votes because people were unhappy with the other parties so saw them as they only other alternative. They won't get as many votes next time and their platforms are not good for the nation.

Homosexual part was a joke.

craig1985, I usually chalk up the pool cue a bit later in the night with the noodz!

 

[Ferminal]

Socially liberal? The greens got a lot of votes because people were unhappy with the other parties so saw them as they only other alternative.

Hmm, too an extent, but they offer many policies which are popular along the fringes.

 

[Spare Tyre]

Re the Australian election:

Neither or the two major parties have the outright majority required to form government, therefore a handful of (mainly Independent) politicians currently hold a significant amount of power.

One of them has an electorate covering 564 968 sq km, larger than Spain (504,040 km2).

 

[Hugh Januss]

Re the Australian election:

Neither or the two major parties have the outright majority required to form government, therefore a handful of (mainly Independent) politicians currently hold a significant amount of power.

One of them has an electorate covering 564 968 sq km, larger than Spain (504,040 km2).

How many dozen registered voters?

 

[redtreviso]

What'd you know...they have Republicans in the UK

 

[Spare Tyre]

How many dozen registered voters?

There are 94,465 registered voters, ie, people who are entitled to vote, so that is roughly 7872 dozen.

 

[craig1985]

Turns out 620,000 people did an informal vote on Saturday. For those playing at home, since voting is compulsory in Australia, they put their voting form in the box blank, added an extra box and voted for Bauke Mollema (that may or may not have happened) instead.

 

[Spare Tyre]

Turns out 620,000 people did an informal vote on Saturday. For those playing at home, since voting is compulsory in Australia, they put their voting form in the box blank, added an extra box and voted for Bauke Mollema (that may or may not have happened) instead.

One person, and for all I know, many others, drew sad faces in all the boxes.

 

[Spare Tyre]

An overview of the Australian election from Germaine Greer. I'm not normally a fan, but she gets a lot of things right (although not the spelling of the Labor party).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...alian-election-Soap-opera-politics-of-Oz.html

It's quite funny.

 

[auscyclefan94]

great to see that aussie politics has taken over this thread
For overseas posters who are interested, this is the Liberal leader tony Abbott

Here is current PM Julia Gillard.

Votes are still being counted after a week and independents are still deciding on who to follow.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Turns out 620,000 people did an informal vote on Saturday. For those playing at home, since voting is compulsory in Australia, they put their voting form in the box blank, added an extra box and voted for Bauke Mollema (that may or may not have happened) instead.

It is a sad day when people totally disreagard their respnsibility to vote properly and vote stupidly by voting informally. It's a sad day when people do stupid things like that. I enjoy voting and can't wait to do it because quite a few seats are only decided by a matter of 100 votes. Last election (2007) a seat in regional victoria was decided by 31 votes. The seat was decided in the high court because of how close it was. It is just sad people don't take voting seriously.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Do you Aussies have anyone like Glenn Beck, or Sarah Palin?

This guy just stood on a platform in our capitol and talked about America wandering in darkness, who needed to turn back to God, and concentrate on the goodness in the country.

For the most part these people want the government eliminated (except on social issues and war spending). Still, in their huge speeches and rally, no specifics on economics, no specifics on where to cut. No acknowledgment that government medical programs (Medicare, Medicaid) take up 1/5th the budget, and Social Security takes up another 5th, and in order to balance the budget tens of thousands of people would have to be denied this, or have it greatly scaled back - something they paid for in their lifetime through taxes. No mention of the fact that defense takes up over 1/5th of the budget - while Beck and Palin are both pro-war. None the less, they whipped the crowd into a frenzy. Palin praised them as patriots "knowing never to retreat."

I always got the impression that these kind of people - both Beck and Palin, and the masses that follow them - were a unique American phenomenon, and were reduced in other countries to a tiny handful of people who are viewed as being nutcases. Here, they make up probably 40% of the nation it seems.

 

[The Hitch]

Do you Aussies have anyone like Glenn Beck, or Sarah Palin?

This guy just stood on a platform in our capitol and talked about America wandering in darkness, who needed to turn back to God, and concentrate on the goodness in the country.

For the most part these people want the government eliminated (except on social issues and war spending). Still, in their huge speeches and rally, no specifics on economics, no specifics on where to cut. No acknowledgment that government medical programs (Medicare, Medicaid) take up 1/5th the budget, and Social Security takes up another 5th, and in order to balance the budget tens of thousands of people would have to be denied this, or have it greatly scaled back - something they paid for in their lifetime through taxes. No mention of the fact that defense takes up over 1/5th of the budget - while Beck and Palin are both pro-war. None the less, they whipped the crowd into a frenzy. Palin praised them as patriots "knowing never to retreat."

I always got the impression that these kind of people - both Beck and Palin, and the masses that follow them - were a unique American phenomenon, and were reduced in other countries to a tiny handful of people who are viewed as being nutcases. Here, they make up probably 40% of the nation it seems.

its unique in medc countries but not ledc countries.

 

[Spare Tyre]

its unique in medc countries but not ledc countries.

What are medc and ledc countries?


@Alpe, I find Tony Abbott, who might yet be our Prime Minister and was until recently popularly known as the "Mad Monk", to be a milder version of the same thing: xenophobic, divisive, uber-conservative, often seeming to lack capacity for reason, and apparently uninterested in science (at least, apart from its commercial applications in the production of consumer items.)

In Australia in the mid 1990s a woman by the name of Pauline Hanson started a political party which was based primarily on the fear that Australia would be inundated by non-white migrants. At the time I (naively) welcomed her rise to prominence, thinking that Australia would now have a comprehensive "argument" about the xenophobia and irrationality her views were based on. I thought reason and good leadership would prevail. Unfortunately, instead of this, an aspiring Prime Minister appropriated the xenophobia and conservatism and turned it into an election winning position which has become quite mainstream in the years since.

(I'm sure other Aussies, especially ACF94, will disagree with my reading of the situation.)

I look at the US these days, and the direction in which Australia seems to be heading, and I wonder whether we are seeing the dark underbelly of democracy, liberalism and individualism: squalid results from these noble ideals. The Enlightenment seems very distant.

 

[eljimberino]

Unfortunately, instead of this, an aspiring Prime Minister appropriated the xenophobia and conservatism and turned it into an election winning position which has become quite mainstream in the years since.

This forced the Labor left to move right in an attempt to gain votes. Now the xenophobia has settled Labor (equivalent of Democrats) have lost their voting base to the Greens.

While extreme views are embarrassing at the time, in the long run they strengthen the maturity and education of the country. As witnessed in former posters change in attitude. It is better to air your views no matter how embarrassing they might be, seething and silent is dangerous.

 

[Spare Tyre]

This forced the Labor left to move right in an attempt to gain votes. Now the xenophobia has settled Labor (equivalent of Democrats) have lost their voting base to the Greens.

While extreme views are embarrassing at the time, in the long run they strengthen the maturity and education of the country. As witnessed in former posters change in attitude. It is better to air your views no matter how embarrassing they might be, seething and silent is dangerous.

I'm still waiting to see this in Australia, sadly. I hope you're right.

 

[ChrisE]

Do you Aussies have anyone like Glenn Beck, or Sarah Palin?

This guy just stood on a platform in our capitol and talked about America wandering in darkness, who needed to turn back to God, and concentrate on the goodness in the country.

For the most part these people want the government eliminated (except on social issues and war spending). Still, in their huge speeches and rally, no specifics on economics, no specifics on where to cut. No acknowledgment that government medical programs (Medicare, Medicaid) take up 1/5th the budget, and Social Security takes up another 5th, and in order to balance the budget tens of thousands of people would have to be denied this, or have it greatly scaled back - something they paid for in their lifetime through taxes. No mention of the fact that defense takes up over 1/5th of the budget - while Beck and Palin are both pro-war. None the less, they whipped the crowd into a frenzy. Palin praised them as patriots "knowing never to retreat."

I always got the impression that these kind of people - both Beck and Palin, and the masses that follow them - were a unique American phenomenon, and were reduced in other countries to a tiny handful of people who are viewed as being nutcases. Here, they make up probably 40% of the nation it seems.

Alot the rise of these nutcase movementes has to do with the Dems seemingly inability to fight for what they believe in, hampered by the corporate owned "liberal media" that is no such thing.

Regardless, the basic reason this is happening is because these people are stupid, and that is being exploited. I call them useful idiots....get the rubes worked up over homophobic, tribalistic, etc. jingoistic issues that have zero impact on their daily lives while the real business is going on in the background. The real shakers in the wingnut party could give a rat's a$$ about these social issues. They are a means to an end.

Issues like lowering the tax on the wealthy and eliminating tax on capital gains, economic policy based upon little or no regulation, and expansion or at least keeping the status quo on the military/industrical complex are issues that benefit from the votes of these dolts. For the most part, they are voting against their best interest but they are too stupid and clouded by social issues they cannot see it.

The economic crisis we are in right now is the result of the policies I described above when GWB was president. I find it humorous these policies will return due to that pasty white low IQ crowd voting for "freedom" and "patriotism" and for whatever cloud friend "god" they pretend to believe in while they are out drinking, committing adultery, divorcing, etc.

And the Dems allow it thru their cowardice. I said about 200 pages ago on this thread I will never vote for a spineless Dem again, and it seems like the only 3rd party candidates are part of some wingnut sect. I think my voting days are over....it's a wasted vote anyway in Tx no matter who you vote for except for very local races.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Alot the rise of these nutcase movementes has to do with the Dems seemingly inability to fight for what they believe in, hampered by the corporate owned "liberal media" that is no such thing.

Regardless, the basic reason this is happening is because these people are stupid, and that is being exploited. I call them useful idiots....get the rubes worked up over homophobic, tribalistic, etc. jingoistic issues that have zero impact on their daily lives while the real business is going on in the background. The real shakers in the wingnut party could give a rat's a$$ about these social issues. They are a means to an end.

Issues like lowering the tax on the wealthy and eliminating tax on capital gains, economic policy based upon little or no regulation, and expansion or at least keeping the status quo on the military/industrical complex are issues that benefit from the votes of these dolts. For the most part, they are voting against their best interest but they are too stupid and clouded by social issues they cannot see it.

The economic crisis we are in right now is the result of the policies I described above when GWB was president. I find it humorous these policies will return due to that pasty white low IQ crowd voting for "freedom" and "patriotism" and for whatever cloud friend "god" they pretend to believe in while they are out drinking, committing adultery, divorcing, etc.

And the Dems allow it thru their cowardice. I said about 200 pages ago on this thread I will never vote for a spineless Dem again, and it seems like the only 3rd party candidates are part of some wingnut sect. I think my voting days are over....it's a wasted vote anyway in Tx no matter who you vote for except for very local races.

Agreed, it is tough to work up much enthusiasm for treking down to the local polling place with the choices we are given.
I however intend to try to do my part to help insure that we here in Lala land don't wind up with a governor who's sole qualification is that she was CEO of Ebay. I think she plans on balancing the budget by outsourcing the entire state population to India, or something.

 

[ChrisE]

Agreed, it is tough to work up much enthusiasm for treking down to the local polling place with the choices we are given.
I however intend to try to do my part to help insure that we here in Lala land don't wind up with a governor who's sole qualification is that she was CEO of Ebay. I think she plans on balancing the budget by outsourcing the entire state population to India, or something.

The good thing about democracy is that you get what you deserve. That is also the bad thing about democracy.

Position yourself to weather the storm.....that's what I have done. Let the useful idiots eat cake. Unfortunately there is some collateral damage but one can only do so much.

BTW, this gay guy is my hero.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/

 

[Ferminal]

It is a sad day when people totally disreagard their respnsibility to vote properly and vote stupidly by voting informally. It's a sad day when people do stupid things like that. I enjoy voting and can't wait to do it because quite a few seats are only decided by a matter of 100 votes. Last election (2007) a seat in regional victoria was decided by 31 votes. The seat was decided in the high court because of how close it was. It is just sad people don't take voting seriously.

What responsibility?

No one has a responsibility to vote, vote for any certain candidate, or vote formally.

82% of the votes went to the two (three) parties which hold over 95% of the seats in the lower house. There is a clear misrepresentation between the state of parliament and the judgement of the electorate. I chose to vote informally in the House of Representatives because I would be betraying my own convictions if I were to support any of the 4-5 candidates in my electorate. My informal vote sends a message to the incumbent and his party for not caring because the seat is so ridiculously safe. It also sends a message to other political parties, that there are people in the electorate who wouldn't feel adequately represented by any of the candidates, so maybe next time there will be more candidates.

Informal voting is not about not caring, or as Mark Latham tried to say, a protest over the two major parties because they ran a boring and negative campaign. It's about sending a message that people do exist who believe in values which aren't all lumped together in the center, extreme left or extreme right.

Voting isn't about duty or responsibility, it's about representation, we can't all be MPs so we vote for those who we (each individual) sees fit to represent us.

If this result and state of the parliament doesn't deliver electoral reform, then the only thing which may is overhauling the constitution. Abbott's love for the Queen is perhaps what turns me off him more than anything. The fact that Malcolm Turnbull wouldn't have got within 15 seats of Labor speaks volumes about political process in this country.