World Politics

[rhubroma]

Let's deconstruct.

This is the smart thing to do. The only reason it's happening now instead of two years ago is federal stimulus. In what world does it make sense for public workers who depend on tax receipts for their income to force the federal govt to borrow money from foreign entities and/or print money to sustain jobs that then continue to deplete the treasury as public money pays their salaries? That is just backwards. The only thing the govt should be doing is trimming labor to the point of affordability, just like what happens in the private world. This idea that public service jobs are somehow sacrosanct just contributes to the overall problem. It's essentially a game of kick the can.

The problem with your thesis is that in today's labor market there is no rational relationship between work and wages, considering the rather irrational rapport between merit and profit among the protagonists of business.

While the private sector, having been egged on and abetted by government, has debilitated the majority in the former class, while it has unduly given rewards to the minority among the latter.

Rather than trimming labor to affordability, consequently, which means keeping the majority of profit in the hands of the capitalists, labor should be empowered and, in bringing the necessary pressure to bear upon business ownership, guarantee a more equitable and just distribution of earnings.

At some point the myth of eternal growth driving the world to its mad precipitous rush to make profit, at whatever costs, in a market logic only driven by gains and losses, and not based upon actual need vs. superfluous desire; will some day have to give way to a new and more principled order. Otherwise what purpose did democracy serve?

Perhaps it is human nature to always want more, Scott, yet how can we continue to abide be such a model on a planet that will have 20 billion people living in it by 2050 according to the latest projections?

You want a world in which the capitalists hold all the power and "discipline" labor, rather than one in which everybody has the right to a dignified existence - this yes makes holding a job sacrosanct, not the pure potential to earn cash - well I shudder to think what a monstrous place of eternal conflict, exploitation, indignity and prepotency such a planet will be like.

 

[Hugh Januss]

This is where we disagree. In a time of recession, the government should not exacerbate the crisis by shedding public jobs as well. Au contraire, it should try an anticyclical, Keynesian approach.

Here's where you're completely wrong. Government is no business and shouldn't be run as a business. Government doesn't produce, doesn't sell products, doesn't make profits, and can set its own revenues, even print money.

As a business owner I think it would be a great idea if the state would go ahead and put the last of my customers who can afford to buy anything out of work. I will await the great tax savings that this will result in for me, and I am sure that I will save a lot on the income that I won't have.

 

[Anonymous]

This is where we disagree. In a time of recession, the government should not exacerbate the crisis by shedding public jobs as well. Au contraire, it should try an anticyclical, Keynesian approach.

Here's where you're completely wrong. Government is no business and shouldn't be run as a business. Government doesn't produce, doesn't sell products, doesn't make profits, and can set its own revenues, even print money.

Government, as an actor in the economy can either smooth out economic cycles or make them worse. Following your ideas will make things worse. Your ideas will actually deplete the treasury much faster because of lack of revenue in a rapidly contracting economy. And moving public employees from jobs to welfare just isn't effective use of resources. Every economic model supports my points. There's no economic model which supports your ideas. Only at the most superficial regard, without the grasp of any consequences, does lay offs of public workers during a recession make sense.

And your definition of tax as 'confiscating labor' is so tortured that it only makes sense within some weird economic theory where you have to bend your definitions far beyond the breaking point to make them conform to whatever ideology you might adhere to.

By the way, while researching Wisconsin's tax revenue for 2010, I found that the number for Cali is more like +$6B (although it doesn't say to which projection it compares to). These tax revenues above projection are real income from 2010 numbers. It shows that the economy is in fact picking up more than expected. You don't want to kill that upswing by putting lot of public workers out of their jobs.

In a time of recession, the government should not exacerbate the crisis by shedding public jobs as well.

This might be true if governments were not hemorrhaging red ink and in record debt.

it should try an anticyclical, Keynesian approach.

We already did this with the first stimulus. The results speak for themselves.

Government is no business and shouldn't be run as a business.

In times like these it might be wise to apply basic principles to government continuing operations. Employee salaries are an expense. In an era where governments are essentially broke and the printing of money is only making our problems worse (see the current value of the dollar relative to other currencies and the cost of energy, for one example... take a close look at what the Chinese have done by divesting themselves of a Trillion in our debt instruments, then ask yourself "why would they do that?"). Expense management needs to be applied relative to income. Just because govt is not a business does not mean govt should not pay attention to expenses.

Govt addressing the spending side of the equation will go a long way to supporting the revenue side. When private enterprise sees govt in a current state it is smart enough to know that 1) Huge Tax increases are looming, 2) The printing of money is looming (inflationary pressures) or 3) we will go to war with our creditors. #3 won't happen, but 1 & 2 likely will and/or already have happened. None of this is good for private job creation which pays for all things public.

And your definition of tax as 'confiscating labor' is so tortured that it only makes sense within some weird economic theory where you have to bend your definitions far beyond the breaking point to make them conform to whatever ideology you might adhere to.

This is not at all tortured. It is in fact extremely simple. You may have never thought of the source of tax in these terms but it is what it is. This is not a point of disagreement. You are simply wrong.

California tax receipts are picking up due to an unexpected increase in corporate tax revenue. In fact, there is already speculation of another tech bubble bust in Cali and that is what is helping here. The personal income tax picture in Cali continues to be bleak at best. Unemployment here is well above national levels and property values are continuing to fall. Yet Gov Brown wants to continue to strangle (to use your term) the private sector. Continue with confiscatory rates of taxation so much so that neighboring states Arizona, Nevada and even Texas send delegations to California openly recruiting business to move their operations to those states as they know they have a much more favorable business climate to offer.

 

[Anonymous]

As a business owner I think it would be a great idea if the state would go ahead and put the last of my customers who can afford to buy anything out of work. I will await the great tax savings that this will result in for me, and I am sure that I will save a lot on the income that I won't have.

Hell, maybe the State ought to just hire everyone who has lost their jobs in the private sector. I mean, think how good your business would be then.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Hell, maybe the State ought to just hire everyone who has lost their jobs in the private sector. I mean, think how good your business would be then.

The state already does that, it's called unemployment insurance, and people who have that job really make Caltrans workers appear productive. Do you really think that increasing that load is a good way to go? No. I know what you think, we should just go back to the "good old days" when you couldn't see the mountains from Pasadena, but production was booming.

 

[Anonymous]

The state already does that, it's called unemployment insurance, and people who have that job really make Caltrans workers appear productive. Do you really think that increasing that load is a good way to go? No. I know what you think, we should just go back to the "good old days" when you couldn't see the mountains from Pasadena, but production was booming.

My point is to suggest there to be a limit to what the govt can do. That limit is based upon what the private sector can provide, while continuing to expand. Govt can take more, I suppose... but that seems to be shortsighted in my view.

Or the govt could operate reasonably within their means and cooperate with the private sector.... but I digress.

 

[redtreviso]

My point is to suggest there to be a limit to what the govt can do. That limit is based upon what the private sector can provide, while continuing to expand. Govt can take more, I suppose... but that seems to be shortsighted in my view.

Or the govt could operate reasonably within their means and cooperate with the private sector.... but I digress.

Operate reasonably? Is that what Bush did for 8 years with your 2 votes of blessings and your complete silence?

 

[Cobblestones]

The first stimulus was simply too small. It had fairly close to the desired effect (when you compare actual measured effect with projections). These same projections also showed that a more effective stimulus would have to be about twice as big. What is lacking is the political will to see that through, so we're stuck with a too small stimulus (which nevertheless performed fairly close to expectation).

Concerning the value of the dollar. In fact, a weaker dollar can help the export industry (this is by the way also the reason why Germany benefits from the euro). Moreover, it helps tourism. How many more tourists will come to the US this year and spend money because of the weak dollar. Now, the US economy is neither based on tourism, nor on export. But it might help to balance out the foreign trade deficit a bit (also because imports are getting more expensive). Anyway, there will be sections of the economy who will welcome a weaker dollar (but admittedly, some others won't).

Same with inflation. Some people will profit from higher inflation, some won't. It's usually seen as an overall drawback, but moderate inflation, over a short time, can be used to solve some structural problems (just ask the Greek, they wish they could inflate their way out of their mess). In fact, if you really think inflation will hit soon, I'd recommend to take out a few huge fixed interest loans (30 yrs are still pretty low) and buy investments. It will be like printing money if you're correct.

But I don't think you are. Contrary to you, I see the imbalance mostly on the revenue side, not the spending side. It would help a lot to simply let the Bush tax cuts expire for the highest income brackets. It would also help to bring the estate tax rates (and exemption rates) to what it was, say, 10 years ago.

Concerning California. Most if not all of their problems stem from the one simple fact that it takes a 2/3 majority to add a tax, while it takes a simple majority to repeal a tax. California will remain in this fvcked up state until sanity returns and that particular law goes away. I assume at one point, that law was supposed to provide stability for planning purposes. But look what it did to the state. California's infrastructure is declining because there's no money to maintain it. People commuting 2 hours per day or more. Some school districts in California perform terrible. It wouldn't surprise me if the California workforce is falling behind as well.

Those are all factors in business decisions which have to do with the spending side of government, not the revenue side. Here you have the results when a government cannot spend what it should, because it is held hostage on the revenue side. It's what you get when you 'starve the beast'. Except, you're not starving 'the beast' which is supposed to be government, you starve everybody by driving businesses out of your state.

 

[Anonymous]

Operate reasonably? Is that what Bush did for 8 years with your 2 votes of blessings and your complete silence?

Already been over this, Klink.

 

[redtreviso]

Already been over this, Klink.

and if things go your way in 2012... you can clam up for another 8 years.. at least the world will be a better place in that regard

 

[Anonymous]

The first stimulus was simply too small. It had fairly close to the desired effect (when you compare actual measured effect with projections). These same projections also showed that a more effective stimulus would have to be about twice as big. What is lacking is the political will to see that through, so we're stuck with a too small stimulus (which nevertheless performed fairly close to expectation).

Concerning the value of the dollar. In fact, a weaker dollar can help the export industry (this is by the way also the reason why Germany benefits from the euro). Moreover, it helps tourism. How many more tourists will come to the US this year and spend money because of the weak dollar. Now, the US economy is neither based on tourism, nor on export. But it might help to balance out the foreign trade deficit a bit (also because imports are getting more expensive). Anyway, there will be sections of the economy who will welcome a weaker dollar (but admittedly, some others won't).

Same with inflation. Some people will profit from higher inflation, some won't. It's usually seen as an overall drawback, but moderate inflation, over a short time, can be used to solve some structural problems (just ask the Greek, they wish they could inflate their way out of their mess). In fact, if you really think inflation will hit soon, I'd recommend to take out a few huge fixed interest loans (30 yrs are still pretty low) and buy investments. It will be like printing money if you're correct.

But I don't think you are. Contrary to you, I see the imbalance mostly on the revenue side, not the spending side. It would help a lot to simply let the Bush tax cuts expire for the highest income brackets. It would also help to bring the estate tax rates (and exemption rates) to what it was, say, 10 years ago.

Concerning California. Most if not all of their problems stem from the one simple fact that it takes a 2/3 majority to add a tax, while it takes a simple majority to repeal a tax. California will remain in this fvcked up state until sanity returns and that particular law goes away. I assume at one point, that law was supposed to provide stability for planning purposes. But look what it did to the state. California's infrastructure is declining because there's no money to maintain it. People commuting 2 hours per day or more. Some school districts in California perform terrible. It wouldn't surprise me if the California workforce is falling behind as well.

Those are all factors in business decisions which have to do with the spending side of government, not the revenue side. Here you have the results when a government cannot spend what it should, because it is held hostage on the revenue side. It's what you get when you 'starve the beast'. Except, you're not starving 'the beast' which is supposed to be government, you starve everybody by driving businesses out of your state.

The first stimulus was simply too small.

How did I know you were going to stake this position?? This is Krugmanomics. Pure fallacy to say a nearly 1 Trillion dollar stimulus was 'simply too small.'

Concerning the value of the dollar. In fact, a weaker dollar can help the export industry (this is by the way also the reason why Germany benefits from the euro). Moreover, it helps tourism. How many more tourists will come to the US this year and spend money because of the weak dollar. Now, the US economy is neither based on tourism, nor on export. But it might help to balance out the foreign trade deficit a bit (also because imports are getting more expensive). Anyway, there will be sections of the economy who will welcome a weaker dollar (but admittedly, some others won't).

I am aware of the export angle but our economy is much more heavily weighted to imports, rightly or wrongly. Also, tourism dollars are nice but the economic numbers that came out in May are largely being explained by the skyrocketing fuel prices. The value of the dollar plays a huge part in this. so much so that all of Western Europe would have to drop some serious coin here to make up for it.

But I don't think you are. Contrary to you, I see the imbalance mostly on the revenue side, not the spending side. It would help a lot to simply let the Bush tax cuts expire for the highest income brackets. It would also help to bring the estate tax rates (and exemption rates) to what it was, say, 10 years ago.

I'm sure the long term solution to our debt problem is going to include tax increases. I don't think it's smart, but I think it will happen. As to Estate Tax... I think, other than the mis-use of eminent domain, is the most vile form of taxation there is. I think the death tax is an appropriate title. So, a $600,000 exemption or would you prefer $1,000,000? The top marginal rate 10 years ago was 55%. On what planet is that fair particularly considering the estate has been amassed with after tax monies?

Just because Warren Buffet does not want to gift his estate to his kids does not mean that Joe Public's kids should have to sell his business because they can't afford to pay the taxes to continue running it.

And BTW, what you advocate vis a vis estate tax roll-back would be really good for my business.

You just don't know what's happening in Cali. those two paragraphs at the end of you post are just wrong.

We are the worst state to do business in and have been for years.

http://chiefexecutive.net/best-worst-states-for-business

California's 2011 Business Tax Climate Ranks 49th
California's Top Individual Income Tax Rate Is Third-Highest in the Nation
California's Corporate Income Tax Rate is the Highest in the West
California's Sales Tax Rate Is Highest in the Nation
Federal Tax Burdens and Expenditures: California is a Donor State

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/topic/15.html

Corporate tax revenue in Cali is the only bright spot for the state. It was originally estimated to be approximately 9% of the state's total revenue. Personal income tax is projected to be over 41% of total revenue. We don't need to increase taxes, we need to get people back to work.

 

[Anonymous]

and if things go your way in 2012... you can clam up for another 8 years.. at least the world will be a better place in that regard

I would not have guessed it but it appears you may have something to worry about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DrvvEXF_tA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtWXU_6JZms

 

[Anonymous]

The problem with your thesis is that in today's labor market there is no rational relationship between work and wages, considering the rather irrational rapport between merit and profit among the protagonists of business.

While the private sector, having been egged on and abetted by government, has debilitated the majority in the former class, while it has unduly given rewards to the minority among the latter.

Rather than trimming labor to affordability, consequently, which means keeping the majority of profit in the hands of the capitalists, labor should be empowered and, in bringing the necessary pressure to bear upon business ownership, guarantee a more equitable and just distribution of earnings.

At some point the myth of eternal growth driving the world to its mad precipitous rush to make profit, at whatever costs, in a market logic only driven by gains and losses, and not based upon actual need vs. superfluous desire; will some day have to give way to a new and more principled order. Otherwise what purpose did democracy serve?

Perhaps it is human nature to always want more, Scott, yet how can we continue to abide be such a model on a planet that will have 20 billion people living in it by 2050 according to the latest projections?

You want a world in which the capitalists hold all the power and "discipline" labor, rather than one in which everybody has the right to a dignified existence - this yes makes holding a job sacrosanct, not the pure potential to earn cash - well I shudder to think what a monstrous place of eternal conflict, exploitation, indignity and prepotency such a planet will be like.

What you describe is a zero sum game. I don't subscribe to this way of thinking.

 

[redtreviso]

I would not have guessed it but it appears you may have something to worry about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DrvvEXF_tA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtWXU_6JZms

I'd have to start drinking to watch that. no wait..I'd have to be a full on dedicated ALCOHOLIC to watch that.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd have to start drinking to watch that. no wait..I'd have to be a full on dedicated ALCOHOLIC to watch that.

You may be in for a bumpy ride over the next several months.

 

[patricknd]

I'd have to start drinking to watch that. no wait..I'd have to be a full on dedicated ALCOHOLIC to watch that.

come on red, that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger

 

[redtreviso]

come on red, that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger

Its 99 degrees,,I'm going to go ride in a few minutes..Hope it doesn't kill me.

 

[patricknd]

Its 99 degrees,,I'm going to go ride in a few minutes..Hope it doesn't kill me.

i just got done. it's actually pretty cool here

 

[Anonymous]

Good grief... This guy oughta resign for no other reason than being a complete dumbass.

WEINER COMES UP SHORT

In a tearful admission Monday afternoon, Anthony Weiner explained that he had lied about being “hacked” on Twitter, telling a large crowd of journalists at the hotel ballroom that he was responsible for sending the inappropriate photo that launched the captivating “Weinergate” scandal. After accidentally making the photo visible to all of his followers, Weiner said he "panicked" and attempted to cover up the indiscretion by lying about its origins and deleting it.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/06/06/watch-live-new-york-congressman-anthony-weiner-responds-to-photo-scandal/?xid=rss-topstories


Edit: I was half joking before but I think this guy may be gone....

Weiner: "To The Best Of My Knowledge They Were All Adults"

That does not sound too good.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/06/06/weiner_to_the_best_of_my_knowledge_they_were_all_adults.html

Yeah, he's in some trouble;

http://www.weiner.house.gov/issue_display.aspx?id=844

 

[redtreviso]

Good grief... This guy oughta resign for no other reason than being a complete dumbass.

WEINER COMES UP SHORT



http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/06/06/watch-live-new-york-congressman-anthony-weiner-responds-to-photo-scandal/?xid=rss-topstories


Edit: I was half joking before but I think this guy may be gone....

Weiner: "To The Best Of My Knowledge They Were All Adults"

That does not sound too good.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/06/06/weiner_to_the_best_of_my_knowledge_they_were_all_adults.html

Yeah, he's in some trouble;

http://www.weiner.house.gov/issue_display.aspx?id=844

He ought to resign right after David Vitter does.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I don't like beer.,. The smell reminds me of Mardi Gras.. spilled beer mixed with horse manure and urine , stirred up by streetsweeper..

You "NO" nothing about Mardi Gras. Maybe next time pick a subject "YOUR" Whisky Tango Azzzzz can have a true "educated" (see your boy Romperroom) opinion about.

"TWO" bad "YOUR" watching FoxNews everyday.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

He ought to resign right after David Vitter does.

"YOUR" a bit SKEWED! .....FoxNews.

 

[redtreviso]

You "NO" nothing about Mardi Gras. Maybe next time pick a subject "YOUR" Whisky Tango Azzzzz can have a true "educated" (see your boy Romperroom) opinion about.

"TWO" bad "YOUR" watching FoxNews everyday.

Who tf ,,,,,,,in your wheaties??

 

[patricknd]

He ought to resign right after David Vitter does.

If I'm gonna pay for sex I'm gonna do it the right way, with yard work. 300.00 an hour is nuts

 

[patricknd]

Who tf ,,,,,,,in your wheaties??

There's your problem,red. You don't recognize a genuine overture of friendship when you see it. I was practically tearing up at the tenderness in Glenn's comments to you.