World Series Cycling

[Anonymous]

What you seem to be describing is the race. You've just listed every aspect of what makes a particular race that particular race and said it's the parcours! Fair enough all those features define the race, but parcours just means something else.

There are also old races that could be revived, if existing ones don't want to join in.

In other news, absolute female dog move by the UCI, pretty much sums up the organisation to me:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-gcp-move-to-scupper-breakaway-plans

They've registered domains for worldseriescycling.com, .org and .net. Why bother? Firstly it would probably be a short legal fight for WSC to get them back, and secondly, this fight is not going to be decided on who gets the best domain name. Epitomises the petty, greedy small-mindedness of the UCI.

yes, I know what parcours means, but on this occasion although i was comparing the actual parcours of for instance Lombardy to some sterile race in China i was extending it to encompass all that comes with it..

 

[Anonymous]

The Strade Bianchi race you mention hasn't been around as a UCI race for 5 years and it's getting excellent traction much to the dismay of the ASO.

#

I wonder where the RCS fit in all of this. I know a few weeks ago Sky were out in italy meeting the new RCS Boss (Whos name escapes me), discussing use of media, etc.

Obviously sky are keeping RCS sweet for race invites etc, but where would they fit in the breakaway plans..

 

[WillyWoet]

Ioc!

But how would the IOC look upon a breakaway? Could they remove cycling olympic status?

 

[BroDeal]

Simply no reason for ASO to support a breakaway league whose goal is.... revenue sharing. Laughable, the whole reason ASO and RCS went to war against the UCI was exactly that. Revenue sharing, the UCI trying to gain control over TV rights etc. with the PT. The whole dispute was never about anything else, doping, sporting values, not enough Wild Cards, all other reasons given by ASO/RCS, it was about money.

The goal of the breakaway is not to share revenue. It is to increase revenue by creating a product that can be packaged for the media. Right now the ASO only makes enough from the Tour to fund a single mid range WT team. Split it 50/50 between the ASO and the teams, and it would amount to 2.5% of an average team's budget. There is no revenue to share.

The ASO would likely organize many of the races in a new series. It has no problem running events in countries other than France. It already does so. A successful series would greatly benefit the ASO.

 

[JV1973]

The goal of the breakaway is not to share revenue. It is to increase revenue by creating a product that can be packaged for the media. Right now the ASO only makes enough from the Tour to fund a single mid range WT team. Split it 50/50 between the ASO and the teams, and it would amount to 2.5% of an average team's budget. There is no revenue to share.

The ASO would likely organize many of the races in a new series. It has no problem running events in countries other than France. It already does so. A successful series would greatly benefit the ASO.

BINGO

Nice work on the logic.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

The goal of the breakaway is not to share revenue. It is to increase revenue by creating a product that can be packaged for the media. Right now the ASO only makes enough from the Tour to fund a single mid range WT team. Split it 50/50 between the ASO and the teams, and it would amount to 2.5% of an average team's budget. There is no revenue to share.

The ASO would likely organize many of the races in a new series. It has no problem running events in countries other than France. It already does so. A successful series would greatly benefit the ASO.

Where do you get those numbers from? You would think ASO makes a lot more than that. They are rumored to make $200 million from TV rights alone. That is excluding sponsors, merchandise, what cities pay to host it and any other income they might have.

 

[hfer07]

the problem here is the UCI being so fvcked up in every single aspect, makes me hope that this new "idea" called WSC could somehow "challenge" the way the sport is being managed & ignite new approaches to secure stability(economically & anti-doping wise).. but as many folks here pointed out- there is the history & the tradition bonded to the sport so tightly that this new enterprise "must" partner with the holy trinity-ASO, RCS & Unipublic to even make it possible.

 

[thehog]

the problem here is the UCI being so fvcked up in every single aspect, makes me hope that this new "idea" called WSC could somehow "challenge" the way the sport is being managed & ignite new approaches to secure stability(economically & anti-doping wise).. but as many folks here pointed out- there is the history & the tradition bonded to the sport so tightly that this new enterprise "must" partner with the holy trinity-ASO, RCS & Unipublic to even make it possible.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=15911

Reading the Liz Hatch interview you begin to understand just how fcked up they are.

 

[BroDeal]

Where do you get those numbers from? You would think ASO makes a lot more than that. They are rumored to make $200 million from TV rights alone. That is excluding sponsors, merchandise, what cities pay to host it and any other income they might have.

Revenue is not earnings. The ASO's total earnings per annum is ~30 million euros. That comes from all activities, cycling (of which the Tour is just one event that the ASO organizes), Dakar Rally, Paris marathon, etc. Of that the TdF accounts for, perhaps, 10 million.

Ciclismas has an excellent series of articles that covers the ASO.

 

[OJ....]

You guys assume that some new professional series would do any good for the sport as a whole? Don't fool yourself into thinking that a break out series would do anything else than try to create a more marketable platform to gain as much sponsorship as possible. Nothing along these lines has benefited the sport as a whole so far so I don't have too high hopes that another series would turn into a success story. Break out series under different organization would basically take the money away from UCI but would not do poop all for women, U23, juniors, para-cycling etc.

Profit driven organization would probably put an end to globalization of cycling or then the break-out series would eventually turn into North-American crit series sponsored by Coors Light. Hooray!

 

[BroDeal]

Profit driven organization would probably put an end to globalization of cycling or then the break-out series would eventually turn into North-American crit series sponsored by Coors Light. Hooray!

Uh, no. One of the goals of such a series would be to have the series' events take place in many different countries because it would increase the media revenue. Media rights in a country would be more valuable when the country has its own home event instead of all events taking place in far off countries.

 

[JV1973]

Uh, no. One of the goals of such a series would be to have the series' events take place in many different countries because it would increase the media revenue. Media rights in a country would be more valuable when the country has its own home event instead of all events taking place in far off countries.

Again, bravo.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

Revenue is not earnings. The ASO's total earnings per annum is ~30 million euros. That comes from all activities, cycling (of which the Tour is just one event that the ASO organizes), Dakar Rally, Paris marathon, etc. Of that the TdF accounts for, perhaps, 10 million.

Ciclismas has an excellent series of articles that covers the ASO.

But we are talking about revenue sharing, not profit sharing. And I would still like an actual source if you have any.


I don't agree with the idea that hosting events in multiple countries increases total media revenue. I think you can make far more money if you host 90% of the events in the major cycling countries in Europe. Although you never know how much countries like China, Qatar or Kazachstan are willing to pay to host one of them. But that isn't media revenue.

 

[BroDeal]

But we are talking about revenue sharing, not profit sharing. And I would still like an actual source if you have any.


I don't agree with the idea that hosting events in multiple countries increases total media revenue. I think you can make far more money if you host 90% of the events in the major cycling countries in Europe. Although you never know how much countries like China, Qatar or Kazachstan are willing to pay to host one of them. But that isn't media revenue.

We are discussing funding the teams in way that they don't go belly up if they cannot find a major sponsor every two or three years. Despite what appears to a popular belief, there is not a large pot of gold being held hostage by race organizers, just waiting to be shared out to save the day. The only way forward is to significantly increase the size of the pie.

Since you do not believe me and you are not willing to read the series of in-depth articles I referred to, perhaps you can ask JV1973. He might have clue or two. You probably won't believe him either.

 

[thehog]

You guys assume that some new professional series would do any good for the sport as a whole? Don't fool yourself into thinking that a break out series would do anything else than try to create a more marketable platform to gain as much sponsorship as possible. Nothing along these lines has benefited the sport as a whole so far so I don't have too high hopes that another series would turn into a success story. Break out series under different organization would basically take the money away from UCI but would not do poop all for women, U23, juniors, para-cycling etc.

Profit driven organization would probably put an end to globalization of cycling or then the break-out series would eventually turn into North-American crit series sponsored by Coors Light. Hooray!

Darach give Pat his PC back and stop writing posts from his account.

 

[OJ....]

I get the idea no problem and I agree with increasing the size of the pie and so on and do have some personal perspective to pro cycling as couple of my friends race in professional teams, both men and women.

I don't think that there is that much media revenue to be had without changing the sport and race concept. But maybe the professional cycling as it is right now should go belly up before things can change. Maybe there is no place for Ronde, P-R or L-B-L and others in global professional cycling and these will turn into amateur or local pro races.

 

[Caruut]

I get the idea no problem and I agree with increasing the size of the pie and so on and do have some personal perspective to pro cycling as couple of my friends race in professional teams, both men and women.

I don't think that there is that much media revenue to be had without changing the sport and race concept. But maybe the professional cycling as it is right now should go belly up before things can change. Maybe there is no place for Ronde, P-R or L-B-L and others in global professional cycling and these will turn into amateur or local pro races.

Is that sarcasm? Of course those races have a place, what would cycling be without the best of the classics? If anything, I would imagine that classics would be easier to promote than weird stage races - first one across the line wins. You also only have to devote a few hours to seeing the entire event - a four day race is another matter.

 

[karlboss]

This 10x4 day racing might be a good way to take racing to the world at the expense of TDU ToC Beijing etc. But as stated by so many it would be too difficult to supplant the classic races

 

[sherer]

All the UCI really need to do is bring back the old World Cup, which I actually really liked.

They did try the Pro Tour leader in the white jersey a few years back but I don't think that idea really worked

 

[Panda Claws]

All the UCI really need to do is bring back the old World Cup, which I actually really liked.

They did try the Pro Tour leader in the white jersey a few years back but I don't think that idea really worked

At least the jersey would be something. Gilbert even said that it would be nice to have a jersey.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

Since you do not believe me and you are not willing to read the series of in-depth articles I referred to, perhaps you can ask JV1973. He might have clue or two. You probably won't believe him either.

I don't know if I should believe you or not yet, because you didn't give a source. Listing a name but expecting me to dig up the articles while I have no idea what to look for, isn't giving a source. I'm actually interested in those articles and the reasoning they might provide.

 

[BroDeal]

I don't know if I should believe you or not yet, because you didn't give a source. Listing a name but expecting me to dig up the articles while I have no idea what to look for, isn't giving a source. I'm actually interested in those articles and the reasoning they might provide.

http://cyclismas.com/2011/09/the-man-who-sold-the-tou/

A sixteen part series about the ASO and revenue sharing with a level of detail that shames Cycling News.

 

[OJ....]

Is that sarcasm? Of course those races have a place, what would cycling be without the best of the classics? If anything, I would imagine that classics would be easier to promote than weird stage races - first one across the line wins. You also only have to devote a few hours to seeing the entire event - a four day race is another matter.

No sarcasm. I just think that there is whole lot more to cycling than pro tour, world tour, world series or world whatever. Making money by selling professional cycling may be easier if professional cycling event lasts and hour and some violence can be built into it. Try have some average Nascar, UFC or football fan watch Liege-Bastogne-Liege.

I have 0 faith in any professional organization making things any better than it is right now. Maybe it's just the cycling4all scenario that is still haunting me with these globalization efforts.

 

[Ferminal]

No sarcasm. I just think that there is whole lot more to cycling than pro tour, world tour, world series or world whatever. Making money by selling professional cycling may be easier if professional cycling event lasts and hour and some violence can be built into it. Try have some average Nascar, UFC or football fan watch Liege-Bastogne-Liege.

I have 0 faith in any professional organization making things any better than it is right now. Maybe it's just the cycling4all scenario that is still haunting me with these globalization efforts.

Track cycling..?

 

[avanti]

One way to make the WCS work is to run races on auto race circuits, charge spectators admission, award big money prizes, and allow betting.
I'm not advocating this approach, just presenting it as an option.