WTH Is Wrong With Jens?

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May 5, 2011
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Like Jensy more and more. He is correct, Lance did what he had to do when he was riding, just as everyone else, And Lancey was doing what he had to do off the bike as well, to keep this tragedy as we now see unfold from happening.

LA hysteria is boooring....
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Racelap said:
Jens is the embodiment of the term 'useful idiot.'
Jens is the one the Anglophone public love because he makes stupid soundgrabs for documentaries about watching tv at races, during Overcoming.


If someone can grab the clip of a Der Spiegel journalist doing a funny parody type interview (like Max Blumenthal does) at stage finishes of the Deutschland Tour, and he was asking riders "did you dope today?"

Two riders were indignant, too much so. Jens, and Nick Gates. And Jens did the CSC thing of blacklisting like the House Unamerican Activities Committee. Name, media organisation? Ok, you are blacklisted. Funny, thats just how the hog and Armstrong operated.

The telling interview was with a Weisenhof rider, who had a laugh and said, perhaps I should have. He was just making up the numbers in the grupetto.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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AussieEdge said:
I do have to make one point - I think the clinic only want cyclist to say what they want to hear, not what they are really thinking
^this.


It is a puritanical hue and cry.


Why do we need to hear it confirmed what we know?

Do we really know? Do we want blood in the water? Does the admission sate us? Does the admission do anything for Betsie, Frankie, Emma O'Reilly?

It does nothing, cos the sociopath has no authenticity behind these words.


So why are we wishing it to be confirmed? It is merely to sate our own moral indignation.

To me, I would prefer if Armstrong, stuck his money in Swiss Bank accounts with UBS, hid the money from the taxman, dared SCA and others to sue him, and just gave a big FU with the middle finger raised.

Cos that would be authentic. That is the REAL Lance Armstrong. People dont want the real Armstrong, they want the fantasy Armstrong. Apologies and seeking forgiveness. perhaps tears. plea to the soccer moms.

from an Australian, I find this episode, peculiarly "American".


apotheosis
to
fall
to...
? redemption?


Really, has Tiger Woods changed? does a tiger change stripes?
 
AussieEdge said:
I do have to make one point - I think the clinic only want cyclist to say what they want to hear, not what they are really thinking
No, that's not it at all. I don't want to hear "Things are the same as they always have been." But I also don't want to hear "Doping is a problem of the past."

I've heard the latter many times. We all have. I think people in the clinic really want a clean sport. I want to see athletes going against each other based on their talents, their hard work, their strategic prowess. I don't want to see a duel of syringes.

blackcat, I think maybe you should speak for yourself. I am not trying to sate any moral indignation. It is so much simpler than that. I just like cycling, and I want a fair sport. I don't want to see kids grow up idolizing cycling cheats. Why? Because, one day, it may be my kid, or his kid, or his kid's kid that end up disillusioned.
 
Apr 20, 2009
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to answer the question posed in the title of this thread in a word: nothing.

the great thing about hypocrisy is that by saying one thing and doing another, you have doubled your chances that you will be agreed with. jens' more nuanced position on the doper-in-chief rejects the hypocrisy of those caught doping who are now crusaders against cheating.

everybody, and i mean everybody, who rode and won in the top flight of cycling doped. armstrong (i don't even like writing his name) is a bully and a fraud. but a pro rider cannot point the finger at him without pointing three more back. being a bully is not illegal, so jens' refusal to be a hypocrite like many of those holier-than-thou riders who have become clinic favorites now that they have been caught is courageous given that fans have had harsh opinions of those riders who have been less than vehement in their condemnation of sir-doped-alot.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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D-Queued said:
Really?

A more cynical view might be the other way around.

Else, what the heck would we talk about?

However, I think what you meant to say was 'the clinic wants cyclists to say what they want to hear, not what they want to say'

We would LOVE to know what they are really thinking.

Dave.
He might actually be right on this one, as a fellow doped cyclist Jens is saying what he thinks, which is "leave Lance alone, it could just as easily be me in that position".
 
Jens is entitled to his opinion and and unlike others on here, does not think Armstrong should be strung up from the nearest tree. Armstrong has made his admission of guilt, more financial sanctions will follow and compensation cases. He has lost his titles, been banned for life,probably lost most of his friends and supporters, disappointed his family. Yes his behaviour is a disgrace while people like Riis are still allowed to be involved in the sport which boggles the mind. I can understand where Jens is coming from. It's called perspective.
 
Jun 16, 2012
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movingtarget said:
Jens is entitled to his opinion and and unlike others on here, does not think Armstrong should be strung up from the nearest tree. Armstrong has made his admission of guilt, more financial sanctions will follow and compensation cases. He has lost his titles, been banned for life,probably lost most of his friends and supporters, disappointed his family. Yes his behaviour is a disgrace while people like Riis are still allowed to be involved in the sport which boggles the mind. I can understand where Jens is coming from. It's called perspective.
Really? He robbed other riders of race prizes and team salaries by cheating. He took a half a billion in donations through fraud. And his penalty is that he can't race anymore? Oh yeah, that's fair. Especially if you ride for a team funded through sponsorship he set up. Chris Horner will be next with the Fabiani talking points.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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gregod said:
to answer the question posed in the title of this thread in a word: nothing.

the great thing about hypocrisy is that by saying one thing and doing another, you have doubled your chances that you will be agreed with. jens' more nuanced position on the doper-in-chief rejects the hypocrisy of those caught doping who are now crusaders against cheating.

everybody, and i mean everybody, who rode and won in the top flight of cycling doped. armstrong (i don't even like writing his name) is a bully and a fraud. but a pro rider cannot point the finger at him without pointing three more back. being a bully is not illegal, so jens' refusal to be a hypocrite like many of those holier-than-thou riders who have become clinic favorites now that they have been caught is courageous given that fans have had harsh opinions of those riders who have been less than vehement in their condemnation of sir-doped-alot.
gregod, but it is good confirmation that all the riders in the peloton still approve of what armstrong did, as they did, and CONTINUE to do.

It really is quite silly for them to open their mouths, the proverb stands as always, these guys, should stfu and not announce to the world they are dopers. gotta keep the rubes still believin' jensie. need to read up on you talking points and soundbites.

the best one, is prolly Jan Ullrich. Most of the public and the commentators though he was a pretty simple east german. But he has shown he is the smartest of the lot. And unlike Armstrong, never needed wealth to ride off into the twilight. he took his chips and living a happy life de-burdened of this cesspool
 
Apr 20, 2009
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blackcat said:
gregod, but it is good confirmation that all the riders in the peloton still approve of what armstrong did, as they did, and CONTINUE to do.

It really is quite silly for them to open their mouths, the proverb stands as always, these guys, should stfu and not announce to the world they are dopers. gotta keep the rubes still believin' jensie. need to read up on you talking points and soundbites.

the best one, is prolly Jan Ullrich. Most of the public and the commentators though he was a pretty simple east german. But he has shown he is the smartest of the lot. And unlike Armstrong, never needed wealth to ride off into the twilight. he took his chips and living a happy life de-burdened of this cesspool
you make a good point, but stick a mic in front of someone and ask for an opinion and 99 times out of 100 you will get a statement. even jan has not been immune to this. he has also made equivocal statements regarding doping.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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AussieEdge said:
I do have to make one point - I think the clinic only want cyclist to say what they want to hear, not what they are really thinking
D-Queued said:
Really?

A more cynical view might be the other way around.

Else, what the heck would we talk about?

However, I think what you meant to say was 'the clinic wants cyclists to say what they want to hear, not what they want to say'

We would LOVE to know what they are really thinking.

Dave.
I would say, people do not wish to listen and interpret what they hear, they will willingly accept what they hear, as long as it is a cognitive affirmation of what they knew before. So they was a guilty person appealling for penance, regardless of its authenticity.

I was Armstrong to just give a middle finger. That would be authentic, and he would not be playing with anyone and manipulating and exploiting people's need to hear the guilty pay and concede whether or not it is genuine.

then we go onto the next step to offer empathy, and a safe place for Luke
 
I buy into Jens saying we should forward. Look forward to a new cycling era. And look forward to racing with all the good young talent. There's a lot to be exited about.

I don't buy into taking it easy on poor wonderboy.
 
disappointing indeed- I did want to give him the benefit of the doubt- He just crossed the line & have just confirmed his lack of character regarding serious matters where hard answers are truly required to match the rider's core


you failed Jens- I no longer cheer for you
 
Jul 13, 2012
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Jens is one of the reasons I cannot stop being cynical about cycling.

In most of his interviews, he comes across as smart, likeable, humble and down to earth - the kind of guy who is not blessed with super-human talent, but who has to work hard for everything he achieves. On the bike, he makes a hundred futile escapes for every stage win. Much more likely to wear the red number than the yellow jersey.

But then, he competes in a sport that's evidently full of cheaters, and appears to be in denial about it. He has no problem riding for some of the most notorious dopers - and he is so successful at it that it would be hard to believe that he's not doping himself.

Which leaves me in a dilemma. He could be clean. If not, I consider him to be an even bigger fraud than Ullrich, Jaksche, Bölts, Heppner, Aldag, and all the other riders of his generation, who, for one reason or another, stopped lying about it. Even worse than Klöden, who has not yet confessed, but who never was really good at lying in the first place.

The case of Jens is a perfect demonstration of why professional cycling is in a no-win situation. Unless you adopt a totally libertarian attitude towards doping, you have to pretty much give up right now.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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AussieEdge said:
Correct

I also think dopers can be beaten if they don't have the other things fall into place...

EG If a doped cyclist crashes because of whatever & is injured badly enough to pull out or be at half capacity then doping is as a useful as a fart in an elevator
Totally agree.

All the clean riders in the peloton should get together and crash the dopers. Hard.
 
Sep 26, 2009
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Jens and the Gravy Train

Jens is another rider who just doesnt know when to quit and quietly move along.

Just like Lance, he should have kept his d**k in his pants and not had so many kids...then he wouldnt have the need to earn so much money.

And just like Lance he is gona get busted.
 
Jan 23, 2013
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I don't think there is anything terribly wrong with Jens Voigt.

He is a man doing a job, and doing it well. I think any person would give the "company line" if a microphone were thrust in their face repeatedly. It makes sense that he doesn't cast speculation or trash his colleagues. There is more than enough mud-slinging in cycling, already.

Jens is fun to watch race, gives entertaining interviews, and ALWAYS seems to be in a good mood and have something positive to say.

Lying? Maybe. Delusional? Maybe. Guilty of doping? Maybe.

Excellent sportsman and entertainer? Definately.

It seems he has made a decision to be an unflinching positive voice for cycling. For that, I feel he should be applauded rather than slammed.
 
Dec 22, 2012
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The problem for riders of Voigt's generation is that they all benefitted hugely financially from Armstrong.

Maybe if he's asked about Armstrong his choice is between lying or being a hypocrit, on several levels.

Hopefully, if we are entering an era of cleaner cycling, there won't be this dilemna facing cyclists when asked to condemn dopers.
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Vino attacks everyone said:
Like Jensy more and more. He is correct, Lance did what he had to do when he was riding, just as everyone else, And Lancey was doing what he had to do off the bike as well, to keep this tragedy as we now see unfold from happening.

LA hysteria is boooring....
Agreed. I think some people here only follow cycling because of this perceived drama. I'd rather watch drama on the roads.
 
Oct 30, 2011
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happychappy said:
Agreed. I think some people here only follow cycling because of this perceived drama. I'd rather watch drama on the roads.
Then what are you doing here?
 

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