your ideal tour..

[Mellow Velo]

And I'd like to see them go up Ventoux from another direction, or go over it.

They actually did....well most of it, at last year's Paris-Nice. Seems just as tough and was a refreshing change.

Ok. Does somebody know why they stopped racing the Puy du Dome?

As has been pointed out, the Tour entourage has outgrown the summit. Last year, there was a strong rumour that the organisers were looking into the logistics of running an ITT up there.

The Colle della Finestre would be an awesome addition.

When the Giro used this awe inspiring climb, back in 2005, who was there?
Christian Prudhomme. He has said he wants to include it in a future edition of the race. Questions are: Will the Italians let him get his hands on this precious gem and how on earth will the publicity caravan get over it's unsurfaced ramps?!

Considering, it's just over the border and Sestrieres is due for a comeback....

I'd like to see an MTF at Isola 2000, after the Bonette-Restefond, again.
Oh and not haveing stages, where the organisers put climbs like the Tourmalet, 70kms from the stage finish.

I last saw Raymond walking the ITT course in Fromentine, 2005. Pou-pou still looks as fit as a fiddle.

 

[BigBoat]

Maybe they didnt mention this maybe they did... I'd like to see a downhill TT. Down Alpe D'Huez one year instead of up it. I mean then Greg Lemond could win a stage once again...he could be the oldest stage winner and totally clean too.

 

[laurentiu46]

You're right,those stages where such a monster like the Tourmalet has no value,topping 60-70 km from the finish should be reviewed.
Also,in recent years,i've seen relatively short stages,around 150-160 km,with two huge climbs. It's the case of Cuneo-Jausiers last year and the two Saint Bernards now. There's always a group of favs arriving together and usually no differences are made. I don't like this kind of stages either.
Even so,Denis Menchov should tell them to stop this,or he will always lose the podium because of the descents. I bet LA will gap him on the way down,come that stage to Bourg Saint Maurice.
I would love to see Val Thorens(36 km long) and La Plagne again as stage finishes on the Tour map.

 

[karlboss]

You're right,those stages where such a monster like the Tourmalet has no value,topping 60-70 km from the finish should be reviewed.
Also,in recent years,i've seen relatively short stages,around 150-160 km,with two huge climbs. It's the case of Cuneo-Jausiers last year and the two Saint Bernards now. There's always a group of favs arriving together and usually no differences are made. I don't like this kind of stages either.
Even so,Denis Menchov should tell them to stop this,or he will always lose the podium because of the descents. I bet LA will gap him on the way down,come that stage to Bourg Saint Maurice.
I would love to see Val Thorens(36 km long) and La Plagne again as stage finishes on the Tour map.

These stages can be exciting. I remember a stage to Gap some years ago, Cadel was outside the top ten and broke away with a pretty solid group. As he rode away, he moved up the rankings until he was threatening ullrichs position in second. It was great to see the GC guys order their teams to the front to try to pull him back.

Generally noone has the balls though.

 

[ak-zaaf]

ok, i've given it a little thought.

first a prologue of around 6km up north with carrefour de l'arbre or bos van wallers/arenberg in it.
would be cool to see a time-trial on cobbles (doesn't seem fair to anyone who is not named fabian cancellara, i know )

then off to brittany for some rain and crosswinds (stick as close to the coast as possible, but a finish in plouay can't be missed.)

a few sprint stages to get to the pyrenees, finish in bordeaux on the way there.

down south we'll first do a short stage (max 150km) with finish on luz-ardiden. the next day the tourmalet, aspin and peyresourde, downhill finish. and to finish it a repeat of the 1997 stage from luchon to andorra-arcalis (±250km).

couple of hilly stages and a 40km itt towards the alps, only two stages there. one monster stage to alpe d'huez, one more easy one to la plagne.

then head up north for a brutal hill-classic parcours of over 260km, a tt up ballon d'alsace and then head off to paris.

should be fun.

i like the idea off a mountain ttt, but i think half the peloton will be eliminated. downhill tt could be fun if there are safety nets everywhere

 

[cyclingrebel]

I would like to have a start like this year. Longer than a normal prologue and in a famous city, it always adds something extra. Than in the first week sunday till thursday, relative flat stages with one stage with a short and steep uphill finish and stages with lot's of wind, possibilities for breaks in the peloton. Than on a friday a TT, 40-55k, so there can already be some timegaps between time trail specialist and the pure climbers. So the pure climbers perhaps get more freedom to attack. Than from saterday the first mountainstages in the Pyrenees, two uphill finishes and one downhill finish. After those mountainstages some stages for attacks, so the favourites can take some rest. And than four stages in the Alpes, to make the final decision with one TT 20-30k in it, not uphill but with mountains. And the final in Paris.

 

[Bala Verde]

First off I would start by moving the TdF to Italy. Well, either that or abandon the requirement to do a circle around France; the topography in France does not lend itself to a truly great course.

I always thought the French topography to be a lot more diverse than Italy's, and hence that they could come up with some truly unique stages. I think the problem is that they haven't used the resources adequately enough...

 

[ElVaca]

I'd say you have to have more uphill finishes since there's little use in placing your final summit 70+K from the finish. But they don't all have to be after a marathon mountain stage. 6 stages in the mountains and 4 uphill finishes.

I'm fine with a few shorter mountain stages but they have to be very challenging. That said, I love to see one monster of a mountain stage -- 250K, 5 passes, 5,000 - 6,000m of climbing. Of course, followed by a rest day. But you could do 3 out of 4 days in the mountains with one of the middle days being a medium mountain.

Three ITTs. One around 60K and flat. One around 40K and lumpy. One a climbing TT with a 10K lead-in to the mountain.

Keep the TTT and keep it fairly long -- 40-50K.

Several stages for the sprinters. Several lumpy stages to foster breaks and for the classics specialists - at least one them to end in a short, steep climb to the line. Also some of these flat stages to try to take advantage of prevailing winds to keep teams on their toes.

That's not much to ask?

 

[hfer07]

Ideal Tour:
LESS BULLSH!T - MORE CYCLING
NO TTT- TWO LONG ITT OR ONE LONG FLAT ITT WITH ONE SHORT UPHILL ITT
MORE UPHILL STAGE FINISHES (AT LEAST 6)

 

[red_explosions]

Let's give it a crack..

Dead flat 5km prologue. About 50km ITT with some hills on the way. TTT up the Mont Ventoux.

5 or 6 Mountain stages with 4 mountain top finishes. One stage including the Cime de la Bonette-Restefond which was used last year. One stage finishing to Luz Ardiden.

One stage with lot of cobbles in it. Could use the roads that they use in Paris-Roubaix. Some hilly stages in the Massif Central. Few dead flat stages for the sprinters.

TTT up Mont Ventoux? Man that is some crazy **** lol

 

[180mmCrank]

Lots of good stuff here and for me I am a traditionalist...so some simple principles work for me:

Keep the race (principally) in France
Minimise transfers and try to start in the town you finish on the previous day
No time bonuses
If there is a TTT keep it super short (maybe a prologue?)
Make the last day before Paris a long ITT

Throw in some flat stages for the sprinters, some bumps for the break-away guys and some mountain top finishes for the GC and some iconic climbs.


Can't see how you can go wrong!

 

[Inch Worm]

The tour lacked 'racing', and seems GC-neutral for all bar 3 mountain stages and the TTs. Here are five ways to improve the GC racing:

1. Time bonuses for stage wins/placings (20 sec, 12 sec, 6 sec). Some traditionalists are against this but the Tour lacks racing and time bonuses can fix this. An extra incentive for the GC riders to chase the breakaway or more excitement when the final GC selection sprints for stages wins instead of 'gifts' or negative tactics. If their were time bonuses up Ventoux last night the racing might have been more aggressive, the break chased down...perhaps Frank looking for a stage win to gap Lance, perhaps Contador taking the stage win to remove the bonus from Saxo...

2. No TTT. A handful of teams have huge budgets and can stack their teams. They can then dictate most stages (Astana, Saxo, Garmin). Why should they get extra rewards for big budgets in a TTT?

3. The final mountain stage must come before the final TT. In a TT, the GC riders will go a-bloc because they don't know what their rivals are doing / will do - it will always be flat-out racing. But by putting a mountain stage on the penultimate stage, riders can just mark their biggest threat, potentially nullifying the racing (like Ventoux this year). Place Ventoux before the final TT and the attacks might have been more fluid, riders going for the biggest time gaps they can get - (and chasing that stage win time bonus!). They certainly would have been attacking Wiggins and Lance harder for fear of their TT ability to come...

4. Mountain finishes - an obvious mistake this year. After coming off Tourmalet, they could have immediately climbed Luz Ardiden or Hautacam. Only needed to add one of these climbs to fix that problem though and I'm sure they won't make that mistake again.

5. A couple more end of stage kickers like the Giro. Just little 2-4km (@4-6%) kicks within the final 5km of a medium hills stage makes the racing more interesting. They used to do this well (remember the little climbs just before Gap when Beloki fell - that was great racing because there was something to race over, rather than just a flat run into town). Combined with time bonuses for a stage win this kicker can make a stage GC relevant, rather than leaving the GC racing for just 2-3 mountain stages and the TTs.

 

[Rbudman]

I would LOVE to design a Tour that is all about who has the strongest team and who can protect their riders the best. Unfortunately to do this correctly, the first thing you need to do is neuter the Pyrenees.
-- The tour starts with a traditional prologue in Pau. (5-8K's something like that)
-- The first two stages finish at La Mongie and Hautacam. (that's right stages 1 AND 2 are summit finishes so if any of the contenders have the balls to throw down right there their team has to ride at the front the WHOLE race.)
-- The next few stages are transitional, something like the first few stages of this year; and how about a circuit race on the TT course in Monte Carlo, that would rock.
-- Three days in the Alps: 1. start in Albertville and cross the Madaliene, the Glandon, the Croix de Fer, the Telegraphe and the Galibier before finishing in Briancon. 2. Valloire to La Plagne over the Iseran. 3. TTT (that's right TEAM time trial) up to the airport in Courcheval. The time is taken on the 5th rider from your team to a summit finish! -- sorry quickstep.

now we are either 9 or 10 stages in and have the skinny climber boys firmly entrenched at the top of the pecking order.

-- after the long transfer you have two completely flat stages from Mulhouse to Strasbourg and Strasbourg to Metz.

-- LONG, FLAT TT in Metz. I'm talking like 55-60 K and on wide open roads with few turns, the sort of TT that "Spartacus" should win by like 4 minutes.

-- the remaining week is spent working our way from Luxembourg City to Brussels through the Ardennes and Holland. We will visit all of the sprong classic routes and force these tired climbers to defend their leads over cobble stones and 23% inclines for a whole week. this could see a roulleur who can climb (like a Hincapie or a Cancellara working their way into contention.)

-- the final weekend: Saturday; Start on the Velodrome in Roubaix, Finish at the start line in Compiegne. (hit ALL the cobbles) Sunday; 65K TTT on the 6.5K loop in Paris.

Can't happen I know, but it would really tell us who the strong. est team in the world was. Could a team of climbers who came out of the first half in the lead defend it through the Ardennes and Holland? Could a team of Roulleurs come out of the Alps way behind and make it up? It would be fun to watch.

 

[Inch Worm]

-- Three days in the Alps: 1. start in Albertville and cross the Madaliene, the Glandon, the Croix de Fer, the Telegraphe and the Galibier before finishing in Briancon. 2. Valloire to La Plagne over the Iseran. 3. TTT (that's right TEAM time trial) up to the airport in Courcheval. The time is taken on the 5th rider from your team to a summit finish! -- sorry quickstep.

Stage 1: good on paper, won't work in reality. Two very hard HC climbs to start with (Glandon / Croix de Fer being one climb), then Telegraph (Cat 1), then Galibier (HC): Such a hard stage, but it finishes with ~40km non-technical descent into Briancon. No way the first 2 HC climbs are ridden hard with Galibier + a huge downhill finish to come. Better to give the riders an 'easier' day by missing one of those first HC climbs and 'allocating' that effort elsewhere (mountain top finish?)

Stage 2 - Iseran is epic, but is often snowed over so the organisers tend to avoid it for logistical reasons. You'd want a backup plan!

Stage 3 - Just an unnecessary gimmick that plays into the hands of the wealthy 3-4 teams. Not my idea of the best way to determine the TDF podium riders.

 

[VeloGirl]

What I didn't like:
1) While I loved Monaco - starting there made for a strange loop around France. Monaco is in the middle of the 2 Mountain ranges used for the Tour. As a result, the organizers had an awkward path.
2) The Pyrenees (normally my favorite of the 2 Mountain Ranges) were weak, uneventful and anti-climatic. the Pyrenees were neutralized this year. And that was a shame.
3) Only 3 mountain top finishes - and one was on Ventoux, but Ventoux was neutralized because....
4) Ventoux came after 3 weeks of racing and the final ITT. That meant the GC guys went into the Ventoux climb knowing exactly how much time they needed, or how much time they were able to loose. Having the ITT AFTER Ventoux would have produced more racing - while all the GC guys can climb - they can't all TT.

What I did like:
1) The route was great for sprinters. There weren't any truly "pancake flat stages". We were treated to some nice hilly flat stages. I think this set up a nice Points Jersey competition.
2) The Annency Time Trial was set in a beautiful setting. Perfect length. Wish it was after Ventoux, though.
3) Loved Ventoux - wish it was earlier in the Tour.


Here is my wish list for 2010:
Stage 1: 9 km ITT around Rotterdam (already set by ASO)
Stage 2: Rotterdam to Antwerpen (already set by ASO)
1 long flat ITT in the 3rd week: 60k
1 mountain top finish ITT in the 2nd week: 20-25k
5 high mountain stages (3 mountain top finishes, 1 epic stage that has 5 - 6 climbs)
3 med mountain stages (1 mountain top finish)
9 flat and hilly stages (4 uphill finishes)

I would like to see some of the following climbs:
Pyrenees: Luz Ardiden, Col d'Aspin, Col du Aubisque, Col du Tourmalet, Hautacam, Pla d'Adet, Plateau de Beille
Massif Central: Super Besse and Puy-de-Dome
Alps: Alpe d'Huez (which they usually do every other year, so maybe 2010?), Cime de le Bonnette (please!!), Col de le Croix de Fer, Col de Madeleine, Col du Galibier, Col du Glandon,
Col du Telegraphe, Courchevel (please!!)

Also: Although I have loved not having Time Bonus's at the finish, I also think this has not promoted racing. I think bring back the time bonus's in the 2nd and 3rd week only, would promote racing. With time bonus's, suddenly we have the GC guys caring about what place they finish - and they will race for it.

Anyway - that is my wish list.

 

[martincov]

Some guys have obviously been doing a lot of thinking. Hope M. Prudhomme takes note of some of these great ideas.

As for my thoughts, how about an ITT where the riders get no indication whatsoever about split-times, nor can they use ear pieces or even any means of checking their speed (i.e. not allowed to use any electronic device to tell how fast they were going/ how far they had gone, etc). All they would know would be the route and distance with as little help as possible from DS/ support car etc. (perhaps not going quite as far as mending own punctures!!)

Would they then just 'ride on instinct'? Would this show us who has the best brain, as well as best ability for ITT?

 

[ElVaca]

Also: Although I have loved not having Time Bonus's at the finish, I also think this has not promoted racing. I think bring back the time bonus's in the 2nd and 3rd week only, would promote racing. With time bonus's, suddenly we have the GC guys caring about what place they finish - and they will race for it.

Anyway - that is my wish list.

Time bonuses... Definitely would have gotten FS, AS and AC to race to contest the sprint in Le Grand-Bornand.