Help me understand barriers

[saunaking]

Why are they the same height for women and men? The race duration isn't the same...


How is it there are absolute top elite men like Van de Haar (sorry about spelling) that can't jump them and yet now we are seeing some of the young women jump them?
It blows my mind that there are top men that can't jump them even when conditions are good and they are not in a tricky place on course.

I can understand the diff between MVDP and Pidcock jumping them so much better than WVA for instance but how can guys not even try?
Surely they have been practicing all their life.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Why are they the same height for women and men? The race duration isn't the same...


How is it there are absolute top elite men like Van de Haar (sorry about spelling) that can't jump them and yet now we are seeing some of the young women jump them?
It blows my mind that there are top men that can't jump them even when conditions are good and they are not in a tricky place on course.

I can understand the diff between MVDP and Pidcock jumping them so much better than WVA for instance but how can guys not even try?
Surely they have been practicing all their life.

Poor example, Van Der Haar can hop them and does sometimes, but unless conditions are perfect he can run them nearly as fast with less risk.

 

[saunaking]

Poor example, Van Der Haar can hop them and does sometimes, but unless conditions are perfect he can run them nearly as fast with less risk.

I dunno, i've watched a lot of cx the past couple years and while it probably happened, i don't remember him ever jumping them and he shows up at pretty much all the races

 

[Hugh Januss]

I dunno, i've watched a lot of cx the past couple years and while it probably happened, i don't remember him ever jumping them and he shows up at pretty much all the races

Sometimes he does it better than other times,

https://twitter.com/x/status/942425509648044032

View: https://twitter.com/jonvick/status/942425509648044032?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E942425509648044032%7Ctwgr%5E3124539ad532e0e59a6c790b8d5250b557149e7d%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcyclingmagazine.ca%2Fsections%2Fnews%2Flars-van-der-haar-reacts-fast-mid-bunny-hop-clear-barriers%2F

 

[pmcg76]

I dunno, i've watched a lot of cx the past couple years and while it probably happened, i don't remember him ever jumping them and he shows up at pretty much all the races

Van der Haar can do the jumps, as rare as it happens. I have witnessed him do so, even this season. Don't ask me which race though. He just seems more comfortable getting off the bike rather than jumping the barriers.

 

[Barkintheeye]

To try to answer your questions. Firstly very few of the women jump the barriers and even fewer does it faster than running the barriers. Further some of the men also cannot jump the barriers as fast as they can run them, and given the much higher risk of jumping rather than running it makes sense. Clearly this is one of the harder technical aspects of CX and not easily accomplished. A good example is the difference between MVDP and WVA. Both of them have raced their whole lives basically and must have jumped barriers thousands of times. Yet, MVDP is significantly faster, more accurate and almost never misses while WVA is visibly less proficient.

Should men and women have different barrier heights? Guess it could be made case of it but since a few of the women actually can jump the barriers and a few of the men seemingly cannot then it seems like a good and easy comprise to stick with the current rules.

Finally it looks so easy when some world class riders jump the barriers. Try jumping one (1) UCI barrier yourself and you will find it's much harder than it looks. Then add another one with UCI prescribed distance in between, then add less than perfect terrain underneath, then add race speed and finally add that you are on your absolute limit. Some things are best left for the very best.

 

[davidsonduke]

The barriers looked much higher on Puck’s preview last week. Totally different perspective.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Barriers are part of the course. So it makes no sense to lower them for women, especially since you can just get off your bike if you can't jump them. They don't rinse half of the mud away for women's races, they don't lower the bridges or pave the sandbox either.
Secondly, jumping the barriers is a skill first and foremost. It has far less to do with power than with bike-handling. So there is no reason why women would not be able to jump them (some actually do). In some races even men (yes, even Van der Poel) get off and jump over on foot, depending on (weather) circumstances, risk and fatigue.

Nys has worked with Van der Haar to get him to jump them, and he has certainly got better and there have been seasons where he consistently jumped, but he kept messing up from time to time, it gets in his head, and considering he his very fast getting off and on the bike, he just decided it's not worth the risk anymore. He will never be able to jump them at the same speed as Nys jr or Van der Poel so he loses virtually no time (compared to when HE himself would jump) and simply takes less risks this way. There has been a time when Van Aert also chose to simply get off, but at that time, due to the rivalry with MvdP, he needed to start jumping or the race would have been over before it started. Now he usually jumps, but also messes up on few occasions. Ironically in Benidorm he wanted to avoid taking risks, so he got off but crashed hopping back on.

 

[RedheadDane]

I have another question.
Do they always come in sets of three? Is there anything preventing organisers from setting up 10 barriers in a row? Or would that be a recipe for disaster, as riders wouldn't be able to maintain the momentum needed to do the jumps?

 

[theyoungest]

I have another question.
Do they always come in sets of three? Is there anything preventing organisers from setting up 10 barriers in a row? Or would that be a recipe for disaster, as riders wouldn't be able to maintain the momentum needed to do the jumps?

No. They come in sets of two

I think you've given your own answer. It would become a new sport, the 100 meters hurdles while shouldering a bike.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

So long as either is done without error, there seems to be precious little time gain in jumping them as opposed to running. How much of an extra fatigue factor is there from either method? I suspect that very few race results would be different if they were not there: the odd bike length of separation that it throws up never seems to last long.

 

[theyoungest]

So long as either is done without error, there seems to be precious little time gain in jumping them as opposed to running. How much of an extra fatigue factor is there from either method? I suspect that very few race results would be different if they were not there: the odd bike length of separation that it throws up never seems to last long.

It depends, on the course and on the rider. If it's a fast course and you can take the barriers at high speed, obviously there's a difference. But Van Aert takes the barriers in such a clunky way that I don't think it saves him a lot of time, whereas Van der Poel is much faster.

Ironically I think the only rider who really won a race thanks to jumping the barriers this year was actually Van Empel, in Antwerp. Almost the only time she did jump them.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It depends, on the course and on the rider. If it's a fast course and you can take the barriers at high speed, obviously there's a difference. But Van Aert takes the barriers in such a clunky way that I don't think it saves him a lot of time, whereas Van der Poel is much faster.

Ironically I think the only rider who really won a race thanks to jumping the barriers this year was actually Van Empel, in Antwerp. Almost the only time she did jump them.

It does save him time, that's the reason why he started doing it again. I think somwhere in 2015 - 2016 he had stopped jumping for a while because he had a few crashes and his confidence got dented. But then he focussed on it a bit more, and started jumping again because he knew well enough he lost time and energy. Van der Haar on the other hand, actually does get off and on the bike at virtually the same speed as he would otherwise jump. But that's mainly because he is very quick in that regard and not the quickest jumper (regardless of regularly crashing). If other riders were as quick getting on their bike running as Van der Haar, a lot more would take the barriers running, i think.

But placement of the barriers and conditions indeed play a huge role. On the WCC, had the course been less muddy, i'm sure guys like Nys and Van der Poel would have jumped, and would have gotten a huge advantage with the uphill section that came after. If you have to get off the bike, and hop back on, going uphill, you 'd lose all your speed and to get going would lose you multiple seconds and extra energy each lap. On the other hand, if the barriers are followed by a sharp turn, there's virtually no advantage by jumping.

 

[Davesta]

It depends, on the course and on the rider. If it's a fast course and you can take the barriers at high speed, obviously there's a difference. But Van Aert takes the barriers in such a clunky way that I don't think it saves him a lot of time, whereas Van der Poel is much faster.

Ironically I think the only rider who really won a race thanks to jumping the barriers this year was actually Van Empel, in Antwerp. Almost the only time she did jump them.

Not this year, but there was a race last year I think (maybe the year before) where Pidcock came into the barriers just behind Iserbyt on the last lap, but jumped them at about twice the speed of Iserbyt, to overtake him and take the win