The Athletics Thread

[Tricycle Rider]

An update on the He Jie story - prize money and medals were stripped, apologies were issued, and it could be safely said that whatever He Jie was trying to accomplish with his pacemakers backfired spectacularly.

Beijing Half Marathon chiefs strip winner He, 3 others of medals, prizes

He Jie won after Kenyans Willy Mnangat and Robert Keter, plus Ethiopia’s Dejene Hailu Bikila, moved aside within sight of the finish line.

www.scmp.com

 

[jmdirt]

An update on the He Jie story - prize money and medals were stripped, apologies were issued, and it could be safely said that whatever He Jie was trying to accomplish with his pacemakers backfired spectacularly.

Beijing Half Marathon chiefs strip winner He, 3 others of medals, prizes

He Jie won after Kenyans Willy Mnangat and Robert Keter, plus Ethiopia’s Dejene Hailu Bikila, moved aside within sight of the finish line.

www.scmp.com

I just think that its strange at best that this is even a story. 'Rabbits' are used in many running events, granted the rabbit doesn't usually wait until the very end to peel off, nor do they usually cross the finish line. The rabbit gesticulating to He Jie was probably not ideal either, but again, so what, He Jie ran the race.

I remember an NCAA 1500 meter/mile runner who was getting 'paid' really well to run record pace 800 meters, who just for training one time ran his 800 and then settled into the back of the lead pack...he crossed the line just behind the top five. The talk after that was less about how 'scandalous' it was, and more about how he had been wasting his talent running for other people. I don't remember who it was and/or if he started running for himself.

EDIT: From a quick read, 'distance' races in Beijing are very popular AND are infamous for mass cheating, so maybe this is why its a big deal to them.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

I just think that its strange at best that this is even a story. 'Rabbits' are used in many running events, granted the rabbit doesn't usually wait until the very end to peel off, nor do they usually cross the finish line. The rabbit gesticulating to He Jie was probably not ideal either, but again, so what, He Jie ran the race.

I remember an NCAA 1500 meter/mile runner who was getting 'paid' really well to run record pace 800 meters, who just for training one time ran his 800 and then settled into the back of the lead pack...he crossed the line just behind the top five. The talk after that was less about how 'scandalous' it was, and more about how he had been wasting his talent running for other people. I don't remember who it was and/or if he started running for himself.

EDIT: From a quick read, 'distance' races in Beijing are very popular AND are infamous for mass cheating, so maybe this is why its a big deal to them.

I think the main "scandal" here is that apparently nobody knew the Africans were pacemakers, nor were they designated or approved as such by the race organizers. They were designated as runners. It's so bizarre and I feel like we're still not getting the whole story, and I'm guessing we probably won't because right now everybody is busy apologizing.

I'm used to going to the Pre Classic here in Eugene, you would never see anything like this here in Track Town. Everybody knows who the rabbits are because they are announced and they wear "pace" bibs so there is no confusion as to who's who and what's going on.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I think the main "scandal" here is that apparently nobody knew the Africans were pacemakers, nor were they designated or approved as such by the race organizers. They were designated as runners. It's so bizarre and I feel like we're still not getting the whole story, and I'm guessing we probably won't because right now everybody is busy apologizing.

I'm used to going to the Pre Classic here in Eugene, you would never see anything like this here in Track Town. Everybody knows who the rabbits are because they are announced and they wear "pace" bibs so there is no confusion as to who's who and what's going on.

TBF though the Prefontaine is part of the Diamond League and the Continental Tour events and they have a designated pool of pacemakers so the rules are somewhat more specific regarding it there than on the marathon circuit.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

TBF though the Prefontaine is part of the Diamond League and the Continental Tour events and they have a designated pool of pacemakers so the rules are somewhat more specific regarding it there than on the marathon circuit.

True. I'm just thinking seeing as He was attempting to break the national record it would have gotten some press and media attention (maybe?) and things would have been a little better organized. This alleged clerical error turned out very costly.

 

[Rob5091]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ter-trio-slowed-down-to-let-him-win-athletics
The 4 so called "pacemakers" who were paid by a "sponsor", forgot to say anything when they got prize money and medals.

 

[jmdirt]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ter-trio-slowed-down-to-let-him-win-athletics
The 4 so called "pacemakers" who were paid by a "sponsor", forgot to say anything when they got prize money and medals.

Even if you are a rabbit, if you cross the line in second place, you are second place, right?

 

[Rob5091]

Even if you are a rabbit, if you cross the line in second place, you are second place, right?

Nope, if you're supposed to be a pacemaker, you're not competing in the race, so they should step off the track before the finish to be like a DNF instead.

 

[BullsFan22]

Nope, if you're supposed to be a pacemaker, you're not competing in the race, so they should step off the track before the finish to be like a DNF instead.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UKNQJlwN1VA&pp=ygUOcGFjZW1ha2VyIGZhaWw%3D

 

[jmdirt]

Nope, if you're supposed to be a pacemaker, you're not competing in the race, so they should step off the track before the finish to be like a DNF instead.

...unwritten rule?

 

[Rob5091]

...unwritten rule?

It's the norm, but there have been a few odd exceptions (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacemaker_(running) )but a pacemakers job is not to get to the finish line per se but to keep the tempo up early on, so the pacemaker should be all burnt out before the finish. Often pacemakers have PACE instead of numbers to distinguish them

Old interesting article on the benefits and problems with pacemakers at Reuters blog.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Not sure there will be any more news on this, if anything shady was going on what would be the motive? I checked what they think at Letsrun, someone mentioned if He actually beat a few Kenyans and Ethiopians (not an easy feat) it would bring massive glory. Apparently He is a bit of a rock star in China already, so a victory like that would only pad his credentials. That's if anything shady was going on and the Africans hadn't blatantly given it away by waving He toward the finish line.

I kinda feel bad for the African runners because they seemed unaware and probably needed the prize money more than He. And with the summer Olympics coming up I wonder how the world will view He (if he partakes in the marathon) after this embarrassing fiasco. Guilty or innocent I think He's reputation is kinda shot.

 

[Unchained]

When is someone going to make a video or big expose about me fishing!!? It's a sport dammmm it

 

[Tricycle Rider]

When is someone going to make a video or big expose about me fishing!!? It's a sport dammmm it

Fishing is a fine, relaxing activity... I guess tying the hook is the sport part? I mean check out the dexterity on this dude.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmDNRE-QOG4

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Not sure there will be any more news on this, if anything shady was going on what would be the motive? I checked what they think at Letsrun, someone mentioned if He actually beat a few Kenyans and Ethiopians (not an easy feat) it would bring massive glory. Apparently He is a bit of a rock star in China already, so a victory like that would only pad his credentials. That's if anything shady was going on and the Africans hadn't blatantly given it away by waving He toward the finish line.

I kinda feel bad for the African runners because they seemed unaware and probably needed the money more than He. And with the summer Olympics coming up I wonder how the world will view He (if he partakes in the marathon) after this embarrassing fiasco. Guilty or innocent I think He's reputation is kinda shot.

There is a bit of an element of the star power being more than the achievement, you feel. It's a bit reminiscent of Wu Yanni blatantly false starting the Asian Games 100m hurdles, only for the organisers to also disqualify Jyothi Yarraji, as her reaction times were too fast, despite that they were clearly influenced by Wu's false start next to her. "Not being able to identify who the false starter was" (Wu contested that Yarraji had baulked, causing her to move), the organisers allowed both to run under protest, before disqualifying Wu later.

Lin Yuwei won the race and China did a 1-2, only for Wu to inevitably be disqualified later because of her earlier false start. But Wu is by far the bigger star of the two both on and off the track, and disqualifying her before she got to run would have been far worse for business, so a lot of people viewed the whole chain of events as the jury trying to figure out a way that they could let Wu run even though they knew she would be disqualified after, because the false start was too clear to justify a run under protest in normal circumstances.

I also think that if anything shady was going on in terms of athletes having been paid off not as pacemakers but to throw the race, they wouldn't have done it as blatantly as they did, going full 2002 Austrian Grand Prix. Even if somebody decided to expose the fix in the manner of Barrichello then, you'd expect it wouldn't have been all of them that did so, it would only take one of them waving He through to generate a controversy, and it would require all of them to be on board with it. If they were paid to compete but to ensure He won, they would have likely fought over 2nd place behind him. This, to me, lends credibility to the argument that they were there as pacemakers but were registered as official competitors - probably because they were expected to help pace all the way, rather than stepping off after doing their job at a requested tempo like we see at the Diamond League and the Continental Tour, where the pacemakers' job is akin to that of the derny in a keirin.

 

[iBanesto]

Kenenisa Bekele finished 2nd at the London Maraton with a Masters WR time of 2:04:15.

His 2nd marathon time under 2:05 in the last 5 months.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

There is a bit of an element of the star power being more than the achievement, you feel. It's a bit reminiscent of Wu Yanni blatantly false starting the Asian Games 100m hurdles, only for the organisers to also disqualify Jyothi Yarraji, as her reaction times were too fast, despite that they were clearly influenced by Wu's false start next to her. "Not being able to identify who the false starter was" (Wu contested that Yarraji had baulked, causing her to move), the organisers allowed both to run under protest, before disqualifying Wu later.

Lin Yuwei won the race and China did a 1-2, only for Wu to inevitably be disqualified later because of her earlier false start. But Wu is by far the bigger star of the two both on and off the track, and disqualifying her before she got to run would have been far worse for business, so a lot of people viewed the whole chain of events as the jury trying to figure out a way that they could let Wu run even though they knew she would be disqualified after, because the false start was too clear to justify a run under protest in normal circumstances.

I also think that if anything shady was going on in terms of athletes having been paid off not as pacemakers but to throw the race, they wouldn't have done it as blatantly as they did, going full 2002 Austrian Grand Prix. Even if somebody decided to expose the fix in the manner of Barrichello then, you'd expect it wouldn't have been all of them that did so, it would only take one of them waving He through to generate a controversy, and it would require all of them to be on board with it. If they were paid to compete but to ensure He won, they would have likely fought over 2nd place behind him. This, to me, lends credibility to the argument that they were there as pacemakers but were registered as official competitors - probably because they were expected to help pace all the way, rather than stepping off after doing their job at a requested tempo like we see at the Diamond League and the Continental Tour, where the pacemakers' job is akin to that of the derny in a keirin.

The finish aside the whole thing reminds me of the Nike/Kipchoge sub-2hr marathon attempt from a few years back - of course Nike made a whole circus of it, but there was no confusion as to who the pacemakers were and why they were there because it was as clear as day even for the uninitiated. I think if there hadn't been a "clerical error" re: the Africans' registration status He's situation would be similar and this wouldn't even be a story.

On a side note I have nothing against using pacemakers (lots of them are great runners in their own right), but that's as long as I know they are pacemakers. I think using pacemakers is better than the wavelights they have installed onto tracks in recent years, at least pacemakers are human and they have to put in the work to qualify as professional pacemakers.

 

[iBanesto]

The finish aside the whole thing reminds me of the Nike/Kipchoge sub-2hr marathon attempt from a few years back - of course Nike made a whole circus of it, but there was no confusion as to who the pacemakers were and why they were there because it was as clear as day even for the uninitiated. I think if there hadn't been a "clerical error" re: the Africans' registration status He's situation would be similar and this wouldn't even be a story.

On a side note I have nothing against using pacemakers (lots of them are great runners in their own right), but that's as long as I know they are pacemakers. I think using pacemakers is better than the wavelights they have installed onto tracks in recent years, at least pacemakers are human and they have to put in the work to qualify as professional pacemakers.

I don't like the wavelights as well. It is too artificial and contrived as it somewhat takes away from the runner vs. the clock element.

Pacemakers have been used for a long time and at least it still has the human element.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Kenenisa Bekele finished 2nd at the London Maraton with a Masters WR time of 2:04:15.

His 2nd marathon time under 2:05 in the last 5 months.

GOAT

 

[gregrowlerson]

The finish aside the whole thing reminds me of the Nike/Kipchoge sub-2hr marathon attempt from a few years back - of course Nike made a whole circus of it, but there was no confusion as to who the pacemakers were and why they were there because it was as clear as day even for the uninitiated. I think if there hadn't been a "clerical error" re: the Africans' registration status He's situation would be similar and this wouldn't even be a story.

On a side note I have nothing against using pacemakers (lots of them are great runners in their own right), but that's as long as I know they are pacemakers. I think using pacemakers is better than the wavelights they have installed onto tracks in recent years, at least pacemakers are human and they have to put in the work to qualify as professional pacemakers.

I haven't followed the sport much for a long time (not sure of the exact rules now), but I've never had a problem with pacemakers. You take to the start line and then do what you want (within reason); like a cyclist in a monument, you shouldn't be obligated to finish the race. Besides, if outlawed, how would you police it? Fake a hammy pull 800 into a 1,500. In a championship setting pacemakers can be entertaining too. Like in the 5,000 at the 93 world championships in Stuttgart, Kenyan Joseph Chesheri ran the first 2 laps in under world record pace, but by a third of the way into the race he had blown up. Enter Ismael Kirui who attacked 2,000 metres in, but was he just working for his Olympic silver medallist teammate Paul Bitok? As it turned out no, for Kirui stayed away (2024 Pog and MVDP style), but it was tactically fascinating (probably going way off topic here).

 

[iBanesto]

I haven't followed the sport much for a long time (not sure of the exact rules now), but I've never had a problem with pacemakers. You take to the start line and then do what you want (within reason); like a cyclist in a monument, you shouldn't be obligated to finish the race. Besides, if outlawed, how would you police it? Fake a hammy pull 800 into a 1,500. In a championship setting pacemakers can be entertaining too. Like in the 5,000 at the 93 world championships in Stuttgart, Kenyan Joseph Chesheri ran the first 2 laps in under world record pace, but by a third of the way into the race he had blown up. Enter Ismael Kirui who attacked 2,000 metres in, but was he just working for his Olympic silver medallist teammate Paul Bitok? As it turned out no, for Kirui stayed away (2024 Pog and MVDP style), but it was tactically fascinating (probably going way off topic here).

El Guerrouj used a "pacemaker" at 1999 WC in Seville which resulted in a crazy fast time for a major championship.

 

[gregrowlerson]

El Guerrouj used a "pacemaker" at 1999 WC in Seville which resulted in a crazy fast time for a major championship.

Yep, his Moroccan teammate. Less than two seconds off the WR. In pretty warm conditions from memory. His greatest performance imo.

 

[iBanesto]

Yep, his Moroccan teammate. Less than two seconds off the WR. In pretty warm conditions from memory. His greatest performance imo.

I prefer a fast final like that than the shambles at the 2016 OG for example.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Yep, his Moroccan teammate. Less than two seconds off the WR. In pretty warm conditions from memory. His greatest performance imo.

I saw El Guerrouj at the Pre Classic one last time before he retired - naturally he won and the crowd gave him a standing ovation. He threw his bouquet into the crowd - unfortunately he didn't throw it to me!

 

[gregrowlerson]

I saw El Guerrouj at the Pre Classic one last time before he retired - naturally he won and the crowd gave him a standing ovation. He threw his bouquet into the crowd - unfortunately he didn't throw it to me!

I saw him in Melbourne at the grand Prix final, I think it was 2001. And yes of course he won.