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“I have never admired Armstrong and never will.”

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luckyboy said:
LA won't be in the top 5 next year. Andy & Frank, Nibali, Kreuziger, Sastre, Basso, Evans, Menchov, Wiggins (depending on who is riding) will all be up there.

Seeing as we're speculating on the Tour '10 already, I'd say Tony Martin as my total outside-wildcard bet for a top 15

I agree with all the names you mention here except Wiggins. I think he was a flash in the pan and will wilt under pressure next year. Considering all he did was manage to not get dropped until late(r) on a few mountain stages I'm also nominating him for most over-rated rider going into 2010. Fully prepared to eat crow if he podiums at at GT, but I don't see it happening.
 
jpmcmahonjr said:
I would take that bet on the spot. Of course your blind hate is a little disturbing. It is also quite obvious hate only shows he has it. After all, if they are talking about you then it's for a reason. It's called still being elite. They don't talk about you when you fall off the map.

I am sure he enjoys the childish hate displayed on here daily. I know I sure do. LOL

Oh look, a "non-hater" hating on the "haters." This is new and original; we have never seen a post that is anything like this before here.
 
Jul 27, 2009
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richwagmn said:
As will AC who's just getting started. Big difference between being in your mid 20s versus your late 30s.

What makes you think LA can climb with AC? LA's method of winning mountain stages was to have his team go to the front and hammer until the other contenders were toast. Then he'd attack. Do you really think anyone on Radio Shack can put any climbing pressure on AC? Think back to Verbier when Saxo/Garmin were hammering at the bottom. AC look under any pressure to you? LA sure was.

http://www.bikeradar.com/racing/racestage/report/96th-tour-de-france-stage-15-560

As for team strength and AC, doesn't matter that much if there's no TTT. We don't know if they'll have one in 2010 or not. I'm thinking either not or they'll limit time losses.

I'm looking forward to LA vs AC. LA won't be able to hide behind the "I was just playing the good team mate" excuse anymore. He either can or can't climb with AC. I believe he knows he can't.

Finally, stop ending your posts with lol.

I have never said LA could climb with AC. Never....Hell I don't think anybody in the world can day in and day out. I also have never said one negative thing about AC. While, it would be impossible for almost 99 percent of the posters on here to say the samething in pertaining to LA. I guess it's just funny nobody can post on here about any subject without a comment alluding to retirement shack or LA directly which is a shot at him in either case.

Hate breeds hate. If you aren't adding to that disease then I will move on, but most everybody on here are doing just that.

To address your thoughts on the riders in general. I can promise you that having a stronger team will come into play more than just a TTT. My point is this LA would never have won a single TDF without his teams. Which he readily admits. Not all TDF winners seem to see it that way.

Even though all of AC's grand tour wins have come with a team built by LA or his regime. Hard to argue with results IMO. Most on here will however!!!!

I do believe LA can compete with AC and AS this coming year though. Could be wrong and I have no problem admitting if I am. I know LA will have the support to win. I don't know if he still has the legs though. I DO NOT use this years results as a measuring stick though. I would guarantee he will be better.

BTW to all 38 or 39 in 2009 is not like it was in 1989. Not even close.
 
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Mellow Velo said:
I swear, some of these idolisers would expect LA to be beating the best 25-30 YOs in the world, were he still riding at 50.
No concept of the sport beyond this one man and his myth.

Not at 50, but in his upper 30's yes. Thanks for the accurate accusation. Very telling.
 
jpmcmahonjr said:
Great addition to the discussion. LOL!!!! Hell of a debater.

The difference between you and the 'haters' is that most of the haters post on almost any topic related to cycling, Lance is only part of their cycling world, admittedly a part they do not like.

You on the other hand, seem to rarely post on any subject unless it is related to Lance or people slating Lance. Based on that evidence, it would seem Lance is your cycling world.

Of course like most of the other "non-fanboys" you seem to have this trait in common. Do you see the hypocrisy?
 
Jul 28, 2009
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fatandfast said:
Alberto will be assumed to be there to carry Armstrong's luggage

True the gaggle would form around Armstrong, with cameras and the same bs questions while Alberto would probably be met by his family.

It's kind of analogous to huge breast implants everyone stares at or the real thing that fewer look at. Once you take the superficial layer off, there is no comparison.
 
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pmcg76 said:
The difference between you and the 'haters' is that most of the haters post on almost any topic related to cycling, Lance is only part of their cycling world, admittedly a part they do not like.

You on the other hand, seem to rarely post on any subject unless it is related to Lance or people slating Lance. Based on that evidence, it would seem Lance is your cycling world.

Of course like most of the other "non-fanboys" you seem to have this trait in common. Do you see the hypocrisy?

It is the only thing ever talked about on this forum. So I fail to see your accusation. If you scroll through all the garbage on the forum. Every title will say something different, but atleast 50 percent of the posts on each thread will be directed at LA and Shack. Which is actually pretty cool to be such a target for them. That lets them know they are doing something right.

I will talk about any subject on cycling you would like to undertake. I love to debate. Enjoying great discussion and certainly competative cycling.
 
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jpmcmahonjr said:
I would take that bet on the spot. Of course your blind hate is a little disturbing. It is also quite obvious hate only shows he has it. After all, if they are talking about you then it's for a reason. It's called still being elite. They don't talk about you when you fall off the map.

I am sure he enjoys the childish hate displayed on here daily. I know I sure do. LOL

At last their is some sence in this thread, you stick it to all the silly hatters they dont know anything about proffeshonal cycling like you and I do. Lance will be awesome next year and is going to kick the bums of all those dirty drug riders like little Berto and Vino who cant ride without their drugs.

Lance is amazing, did you know that he made the Olsen girls boobs two cup sizes bigger just by looking at them!
 
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jpmcmahonjr said:
It is the only thing ever talked about on this forum. So I fail to see your accusation. If you scroll through all the garbage on the forum. Every title will say something different, but atleast 50 percent of the posts on each thread will be directed at LA and Shack. Which is actually pretty cool to be such a target for them. That lets them know they are doing something right.

I will talk about any subject on cycling you would like to undertake. I love to debate. Enjoying great discussion and certainly competative cycling.

campagnolo or shimano ? :eek:

no reason in talking about shram
 
jpmcmahonjr said:
Childish is what it is as well. Sorry you can't appreciate calling a spade a spade. You obviously fit in the same boat with the poster I REPLIED TO!.

It's more reasonable that Lance will do much better this year being the second year back at pro level preparing and racing. If you don't think so you are kidding yourself. Not to mention he WILL have the strongest team in the tour. I am quite certain AC won't be near at the level he was this year as far as strength of his team. Unless you think Vino is 8 superhumans without doping.

I will stop with the calling a spade is a spade. It is just too logical and goes against all the hate that can be mustered here lol.

A couple of points. According to Lance (just prior to the start of the Tour), he talked about he was in the best shape he had been in a long time and that he was hitting his same numbers in training like 2002, 2003 and that he was there to win. Post-tour, of course, that story changed, but I think the important point is to note that he was in pretty good shape by his own standard. He made podium largely because he had the best cyclist on his team. At no point did he EVER have to actually compete with AC. Next year he'll have to. There is no one on Radio Shack that can help with that. LL can't mark AC. Neither can Kloden. Lance can't hold his wheel either. And Radio Shack won't be able to ride at a tempo that AC can't--he was actually complaining that they weren't as aggressive as he would have liked in certain situations. In short, sure Lance may ride better next year, but next year he will also have to actually deal with AC as a true competitor. Nothing in the current make up of Radio Shack makes me think they'll have anything to level the playing field between Lance in AC, or Lance and Saxo Bank.

But I will agree with you that Astana's 2010 won't be as strong as Radio Shack--I actually don't believe that they will field a Pro Tour team in 2010. But I also say that Radio Shack won't be nearly as strong as Astana was in 2009. They took the good parts of Astana (2009), but left the BEST part (AC).
 
A

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Publicus said:
A couple of points. According to Lance (just prior to the start of the Tour), he talked about he was in the best shape he had been in a long time and that he was hitting his same numbers in training like 2002, 2003 and that he was there to win. Post-tour, of course, that story changed, but I think the important point is to note that he was in pretty good shape by his own standard.

Actually, before the tour lance was not as confident as you say. I remember the velo news interview, and he repeatedly said that he is unsure how he will perform. Whilst his training numbers where right up there again, his words were along the line of "i've done everything that i can do, in order to win, but i'm not so sure" , whereas in 2004/05 he said, back then "i knew i would win".

There were definately doubts in his words about his ability before the tour, and he could acknowledge that AC was better than him. Then again, no-one trusts what lance says anyway, so none of it can be taken as fact.

On a side note, I'm surprised so many people are adamant that LA wont be competitive next year (by that I mean podium). I can gaurantee, that the exact same people in this forum (who obviously hate lance and can't accept that he was the greatest champion since indurain) said at this exact time last year, **** like, oh lance is finished, washed up, he wont podium, and as usual he proved the haters wrong.

I respect the haters for having an opinion, i'm no fanboy, but in a forum where if you dont hate lance you're on someones ignore list, is, as the word describes, ignorant. Fact - the guy knows how to compete in a GT. Fact - the guy won 7 GTs. Fact - the guy podiumed when he was almost 38. I mean seriously, going from almost 38 in 09, to almost 39 in 2010 its not like he's becoming an old man. science is proving that the late 30s is not a huge drop in performance. Marathon runners, ironman triathletes, distance swimmers, they can all compete at the highest level (podiums) in their respective sport despite pushing 40yrs old.

It's so ignorant to assume lance is not going to be competitive, becoz the same people that said he's a washed up hack last year, got burned, you know why? becoz he was on the podium!! end of story. Sure, the win may be beyond him, but c'mon, he's not that bad a cyclist. All sports stars are arrogant, it's just the american ones get more coverage. In 5 years time when AC has won 7 TDfs, the haters will turn on him too. So typical.

I respect the lance-haters, but of course i will be labelled a fanboy for saying this. On a forum full of haters, i feel the need to defend the hated... and that's just my two cents ;)
 
jpmcmahonjr said:
It is the only thing ever talked about on this forum. So I fail to see your accusation. If you scroll through all the garbage on the forum. Every title will say something different, but atleast 50 percent of the posts on each thread will be directed at LA and Shack. Which is actually pretty cool to be such a target for them. That lets them know they are doing something right.

I will talk about any subject on cycling you would like to undertake. I love to debate. Enjoying great discussion and certainly competative cycling.

Let's hear it for Lance lovers! So should AC have stepped aside and ridden for lance at the tdf? Did Lance ride for AC?
 
Mountain Goat said:
Actually, before the tour lance was not as confident as you say. I remember the velo news interview, and he repeatedly said that he is unsure how he will perform. Whilst his training numbers where right up there again, his words were along the line of "i've done everything that i can do, in order to win, but i'm not so sure" , whereas in 2004/05 he said, back then "i knew i would win".

There were definately doubts in his words about his ability before the tour, and he could acknowledge that AC was better than him. Then again, no-one trusts what lance says anyway, so none of it can be taken as fact.

On a side note, I'm surprised so many people are adamant that LA wont be competitive next year (by that I mean podium). I can gaurantee, that the exact same people in this forum (who obviously hate lance and can't accept that he was the greatest champion since indurain) said at this exact time last year, **** like, oh lance is finished, washed up, he wont podium, and as usual he proved the haters wrong.

I respect the haters for having an opinion, i'm no fanboy, but in a forum where if you dont hate lance you're on someones ignore list, is, as the word describes, ignorant. Fact - the guy knows how to compete in a GT. Fact - the guy won 7 GTs. Fact - the guy podiumed when he was almost 38. I mean seriously, going from almost 38 in 09, to almost 39 in 2010 its not like he's becoming an old man. science is proving that the late 30s is not a huge drop in performance. Marathon runners, ironman triathletes, distance swimmers, they can all compete at the highest level (podiums) in their respective sport despite pushing 40yrs old.

It's so ignorant to assume lance is not going to be competitive, becoz the same people that said he's a washed up hack last year, got burned, you know why? becoz he was on the podium!! end of story. Sure, the win may be beyond him, but c'mon, he's not that bad a cyclist. All sports stars are arrogant, it's just the american ones get more coverage. In 5 years time when AC has won 7 TDfs, the haters will turn on him too. So typical.

I respect the lance-haters, but of course i will be labelled a fanboy for saying this. On a forum full of haters, i feel the need to defend the hated... and that's just my two cents ;)

Alberto will not be hated as much as Lance unless he pulls a stunt like Lance did chasing down Simeoni or unless the sport becomes as one dimensional as it does when Lance is around. There are other guys who have doped as much or worse than Lance but they never done a 'Simeoni'

A biG part of the reason I dont like Lance is that everyone, media, bike manufacturers etc stop focusing on the sport and instead focus all their attention on Lance in the hope of gaining extra dollars by relating to the non-cycling US market. Its called selling out in other walks of like.

I can gurantee you its not as bad in non-english speaking countries. The fact is, magazines like ProCycling, CycleSport are the top selling English language magazines in Europe but they also sell in the US so we are force fed Lance non stop even though we would rather read about CYCLING. In the most recent issue of Cycle Sport, the article on the Tour of Ireland focused on Lance who didnt even finish, the winner got a sidebar, this race took place almost 2 MONTHS ago. The race was reduced from 5 days to 3 because a big part of the budget was spent on attracting Lance, you see the problem I have.

Indurain was just as successful as Lance but only received very little coverage in magazines I read, maybe one interview a year at the most, maybe not even that. Hardly a month passes without a feature on Lance in some cycling magazine. Maximun overkill.
 
Mountain Goat said:
There were definately doubts in his words about his ability before the tour, and he could acknowledge that AC was better than him. Then again, no-one trusts what lance says anyway, so none of it can be taken as fact.

On a side note, I'm surprised so many people are adamant that LA wont be competitive next year (by that I mean podium). I can gaurantee, that the exact same people in this forum (who obviously hate lance and can't accept that he was the greatest champion since indurain) said at this exact time last year, **** like, oh lance is finished, washed up, he wont podium, and as usual he proved the haters wrong.

I respect the haters for having an opinion, i'm no fanboy, but in a forum where if you dont hate lance you're on someones ignore list, is, as the word describes, ignorant. Fact - the guy knows how to compete in a GT. Fact - the guy won 7 GTs. Fact - the guy podiumed when he was almost 38. I mean seriously, going from almost 38 in 09, to almost 39 in 2010 its not like he's becoming an old man. science is proving that the late 30s is not a huge drop in performance. Marathon runners, ironman triathletes, distance swimmers, they can all compete at the highest level (podiums) in their respective sport despite pushing 40yrs old.

It's so ignorant to assume lance is not going to be competitive, becoz the same people that said he's a washed up hack last year, got burned, you know why? becoz he was on the podium!! end of story. Sure, the win may be beyond him, but c'mon, he's not that bad a cyclist. All sports stars are arrogant, it's just the american ones get more coverage. In 5 years time when AC has won 7 TDfs, the haters will turn on him too. So typical.

I respect the lance-haters, but of course i will be labelled a fanboy for saying this. On a forum full of haters, i feel the need to defend the hated... and that's just my two cents ;)


OK.

A) Please provide a link where he said AC was better than him before the tour. Not saying it doesn't exist. I just want to see the context.

B) Do you trust what Lance said in the last year? Why?

C) I wanted Lance to finish right behind AC 4 months ago. Now, I could not care less where he finishes, from 1st to last. Done with my fan-ship of him.

D) Greatest tdf champion since Indurain? Fair assessment.

E) He did quite well at 38 to podium. Remarkably well. But on his own in the tour in '09? Certainly not up to anything close to his earlier dominance nor that of some of the other GC guys recently. Excellent tactician, though.

F)At 39, he is going to need a better team than he has surrounded himself to tow him around, that's my opinion. He may podium, he may win. I still have zero respect for him off the bike. A despicable human being. All sports stars are arrogant. To a degree, dude. It's another thing to repeatedly go out of one's way to be an @$$.

G)You seem very satisfied with yourself for labeling everyone in the forum. It's easy for people to hate once they can successfully compartmentalize their 'enemy'.

I think this AC interview has stirred up a lot of shame for people who still like Lance to be reminded of how inexcusably he behaved. I loved cheering for him and have given him up and it's a relief to not have to defend such a creep anymore.
 
jpmcmahonjr said:
It is the only thing ever talked about on this forum. So I fail to see your accusation. If you scroll through all the garbage on the forum. Every title will say something different, but atleast 50 percent of the posts on each thread will be directed at LA and Shack. Which is actually pretty cool to be such a target for them. That lets them know they are doing something right.

I will talk about any subject on cycling you would like to undertake. I love to debate. Enjoying great discussion and certainly competative cycling.

There have been plenty of threads on non-Lance issues, I dont recall seeing you in the Vuelta threads, Paris-Tours thread etc. Stop trying to BS us cos you probably didnt see a single second of the Vuelta. You only see threads with Lance in the title.
 
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pmcg76 said:
Alberto will not be hated as much as Lance unless he pulls a stunt like Lance did chasing down Simeoni or unless the sport becomes as one dimensional as it does when Lance is around. There are other guys who have doped as much or worse than Lance but they never done a 'Simeoni'

A biG part of the reason I dont like Lance is that everyone, media, bike manufacturers etc stop focusing on the sport and instead focus all their attention on Lance in the hope of gaining extra dollars by relating to the non-cycling US market. Its called selling out in other walks of like.

I can gurantee you its not as bad in non-english speaking countries. The fact is, magazines like ProCycling, CycleSport are the top selling English language magazines in Europe but they also sell in the US so we are force fed Lance non stop even though we would rather read about CYCLING. In the most recent issue of Cycle Sport, the article on the Tour of Ireland focused on Lance who didnt even finish, this race took place almost 2 MONTHS ago. The race was reduced from 5 days to 3 because a big part of the budget was spent on attracting Lance, you see the problem I have.

Indurain was just as successful as Lance but only received very little coverage in magazines I read, maybe one interview a year at the most, maybe not even that. Hardly a month passes without a feature on Lance in some cycling magazine. Maximun overkill.

Have you ever heard of misplaced anger? Try directing your frusturation or anger at the ones causing your problem not the targets they throw at you. If your problem mainly is being force fed Lance. It's the ones feeding you that is the problem, not lance. Just an observation.
 
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pmcg76 said:
There have been plenty of threads on non-Lance issues, I dont recall seeing you in the Vuelta threads, Paris-Tours thread etc. Stop trying to BS us cos you probably didnt see a single second of the Vuelta. You only see threads with Lance in the title.

In person I did not see any of it. I did however watch about 70 percent of the coverage live on the internet. Good try though. You are right I was not in the threads about the Vuelta or the Paris-Tours. Especally the Paris-Tours. This time of year is watered down. It's dissappointing to see so many great riders focus on the front and middle of the season, but ignore the end. Just my opinion.
 
jpmcmahonjr said:
In person I did not see any of it. I did however watch about 70 percent of the coverage live on the internet. Good try though. You are right I was not in the threads about the Vuelta or the Paris-Tours. Especally the Paris-Tours. This time of year is watered down. It's dissappointing to see so many great riders focus on the front and middle of the season, but ignore the end. Just my opinion.

Quick, who came in second and third? :D
 
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