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“I have never admired Armstrong and never will.”

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Oct 6, 2009
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It's interesting that this story comes out again just in time for AC and LA to meet up in person for the TdF route presentation on Wednesday. Wonder if we'll be treated to some more Lance tweets about this?
 
Mountain Goat said:
Actually, before the tour lance was not as confident as you say. I remember the velo news interview, and he repeatedly said that he is unsure how he will perform. Whilst his training numbers where right up there again, his words were along the line of "i've done everything that i can do, in order to win, but i'm not so sure" , whereas in 2004/05 he said, back then "i knew i would win".

There were definately doubts in his words about his ability before the tour, and he could acknowledge that AC was better than him. Then again, no-one trusts what lance says anyway, so none of it can be taken as fact.

I was merely referring to his level of preparation. I don't know that he can prepare any better in 2010 than he did in 2009. That was my point, not whether or not he was confident he could win (he had seen AC up close, he knew the deal). It was only after he had lost that he started really down playing his level of preparation, etc.

Funny enough though, he started talking himself up after he took back 41 seconds . . . only to have the grumpy guy return after Andorra. But I digress...
 
jpmcmahonjr said:
In person I did not see any of it. I did however watch about 70 percent of the coverage live on the internet. Good try though. You are right I was not in the threads about the Vuelta or the Paris-Tours. Especally the Paris-Tours. This time of year is watered down. It's dissappointing to see so many great riders focus on the front and middle of the season, but ignore the end. Just my opinion.

Ok, so you are more or less agreeing that you focus mainly on Lance threads, thanks for clarifying that. Yes the end of season is not as popular with cyclists but there is still some good races and cyclists racing, its still part of the cycling season. Of course the cyclist most famous for not participating after the Tour is.......guess who.

You are right about misplacing my anger at Lance mania but I have sent letters and had them published in the relevant magazines. Indeed another one will be going this month. Wont make a difference cause there is always one muppet from the US writing in to say they want more Lance.

Also, no other cyclist has ever courted the media like Lance either, its kinda like the Beckhams, they court the media but complain when they receive bad press. The easiest solution would be for Lance to re-retire, that made me so happy in 2005. However, my dislike still relates to the Simeoni affair.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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jpmcmahonjr said:
In person I did not see any of it. I did however watch about 70 percent of the coverage live on the internet. Good try though. You are right I was not in the threads about the Vuelta or the Paris-Tours. Especally the Paris-Tours. This time of year is watered down. It's dissappointing to see so many great riders focus on the front and middle of the season, but ignore the end. Just my opinion.

Hard to watch the race on Sunday and call it "watered down". Amazing ride by Gilbert. Saturday is one my favorite races. The course and atmosphere is one of the best in the sport. The list of great champions who have won it is long.

Palo Bettini, riding the world off his wheel, in the WC jersey, two weeks after the death of his brother.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POFlLazqlCs

Watered down? Not a dry eye in the house.

The best part, CROSS SEASON is already underway.
 
Jul 26, 2009
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after reading through this thread an not wanting to throw stones i did notice some posts making age and accomplishment comparisons......

while lance has won 7 TDF , and a very very nice list of other events , worlds ,san seb, etc........he certainly did not have the palmares at the age of 26 that contador has.........neither in quantity or quality

and lets not forget contador has a record 3 grand tours in 14 months , something even the greatest mr merckx , never accomplished
 
Now that the Tour Parcours is going to be revealed, this is what Lance/Bruyneel/Shack might be dreaming/hoping for in order to win it:
* No individual TT at all-nor lengthy Prologue
* No Mountain TT at all
* Three TTT each one 60 km in length
* Just one Mountain stage finish-which is only 3rd Category
* All stages will average only 120 Km
* the majority of stages will be ridden close to the coast line or the wide open country side where cross winds can favor "LA's attacks"
 
lagartija said:
and lets not forget contador has a record 3 grand tours in 14 months , something even the greatest mr merckx , never accomplished

I agree with the obvious fact that Contador's palmares are better than Armstrong's at age 26.

But please note that Contador won his first 3 grand tours in 14 months, which Merckx did not do. But Merckx in fact won 4 grand tours (3 different ones) in 14 months, whether you count from his Giro-Tour in 1972 to his Vuelta-Giro in 1973, or from the latter to his Giro-Tour in 1974 (I guess that'd be 15 months, since the Vuelta was in April). In fact, discounting his disqualification in the 1969 Giro (which he was winning), he won all 11 grand tours he entered from 1968-1975. Yipes. I know we all know Merckx was the best, but that's ridiculous.
 
A

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ggusta said:
OK.

A) Please provide a link where he said AC was better than him before the tour. Not saying it doesn't exist. I just want to see the context.

B) Do you trust what Lance said in the last year? Why?

.

A) No idea where it is. But there was a velo news interview and tv interviews during the Giro where he always said AC is the best cyclist in the world and that he is not sure he could beat him. Also, he said stuff along the lines of i would be happy working for alberto at the tour. Obviously he changed the story and didnt work for him so the answer to (B) is, no i don't trust what he says.

But, I don't really trust what most athletes say, becoz in my opinion, the beauty of sport (and especially cycling) is it a physical and mental game. without a doubt, lance was behind on the physical game, but damn he tried his best at the mental game. As such, I think his games were not inexcusable as you say, becoz cycling IS and always will be a mental game. Playing games with the media, and having them wrapped around your little finger is a HUGE asset, and lance does this well. Cadel Evans on the other hand, one of my favourite cyclists, he lets the media affect him, rather than taking the lance approach and influencing the media

The whole lance being arrogant thing is true. Like i said, he is arrogant, and people hate him for that. but without a doubt, the media makes him look even more arrogant than he is, which is why I think the 'haters' in this forum get obsessed with their anti-lance comments. I have to agree, there is a lot to hate about the guy, but i like the guy becoz of two things. one, the way he rides, and two, the way he talks. most people here, i suspect, don't like the guy for those same two reasons.

The simeoni thing is so overrated. I mean seriously, who cares? Cycling is full of personality clashes and that's what makes it so fascinating. I like watching PEOPLE on bikes. PEOPLE have personalities and that's why I respect the fact that people hate lance for his personality. Without arrogance and personality, this sport would be very boring.
 
Mountain Goat said:
A) No idea where it is. But there was a velo news interview and tv interviews during the Giro where he always said AC is the best cyclist in the world and that he is not sure he could beat him. Also, he said stuff along the lines of i would be happy working for alberto at the tour. Obviously he changed the story and didnt work for him so the answer to (B) is, no i don't trust what he says.

But, I don't really trust what most athletes say, becoz in my opinion, the beauty of sport (and especially cycling) is it a physical and mental game. without a doubt, lance was behind on the physical game, but damn he tried his best at the mental game. As such, I think his games were not inexcusable as you say, becoz cycling IS and always will be a mental game. Playing games with the media, and having them wrapped around your little finger is a HUGE asset, and lance does this well. Cadel Evans on the other hand, one of my favourite cyclists, he lets the media affect him, rather than taking the lance approach and influencing the media

The whole lance being arrogant thing is true. Like i said, he is arrogant, and people hate him for that. but without a doubt, the media makes him look even more arrogant than he is, which is why I think the 'haters' in this forum get obsessed with their anti-lance comments. I have to agree, there is a lot to hate about the guy, but i like the guy becoz of two things. one, the way he rides, and two, the way he talks. most people here, i suspect, don't like the guy for those same two reasons.

The simeoni thing is so overrated. I mean seriously, who cares? Cycling is full of personality clashes and that's what makes it so fascinating. I like watching PEOPLE on bikes. PEOPLE have personalities and that's why I respect the fact that people hate lance for his personality. Without arrogance and personality, this sport would be very boring.

I remember what you are talking about here. But I noted a marked difference just before the start of the Tour. At that point, he wasn't saying that AC was the strongest . . . just that he MIGHT be. He was also openly fighting for the leadership of the team, despite JB's announcement that AC is the team leader.

As for Lance, I use to like him, prior to his return from retirement. My reasons are because he knew he was causing chaos by parachuting into Astana (something he would have never tolerated) and the way he attempted to conduct psychological warfare on AC over the course of the last year. Made him look very small as an athlete and as a person. I don't mind trash talking if you can back it up consistently. Pre-retirement he could do; post-retirement not so much.

And frankly, AC's riding style is so much more exciting. Sure it's less controlled (see Arcalis), but it also brings life to the race (see Arcalis! Verbier; 2007 Tour). I hope AC finds or has a good team in place by the time of the TdF. It would be a travesty for the sport if he doesn't.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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skidmark said:
I agree with the obvious fact that Contador's palmares are better than Armstrong's at age 26.

But please note that Contador won his first 3 grand tours in 14 months, which Merckx did not do. But Merckx in fact won 4 grand tours (3 different ones) in 14 months, whether you count from his Giro-Tour in 1972 to his Vuelta-Giro in 1973, or from the latter to his Giro-Tour in 1974 (I guess that'd be 15 months, since the Vuelta was in April). In fact, discounting his disqualification in the 1969 Giro (which he was winning), he won all 11 grand tours he entered from 1968-1975. Yipes. I know we all know Merckx was the best, but that's ridiculous.

Just an interesting story i found about Merckx
I got a book on all the history of the tour and was interested to read about a guy called Luis Ocana. In 1971, He was one of few who dropped Merckx on the climbs. He got 9 minutes on Merckx in 1 stage and he also one on the Puy de Dome. Merckx i don't think would of won that tour if Ocana didn't crash on the Col de Mente. The year after Ocana crashed again on the Ballon D Alsace.

To get back on topic, i think their is at least 5 or 6 better cyclists better than armstrong and i must say that Contador's palmares looks better than armstrong. People who don't know cycling only say Amrstrong is the best because he won 7 tours. Conti still wins many events and peaks for the tour. During Armstrong's tour years, he didn't win much out side the tour.

From the same encyclopedia i found the merckx story in they also made a little comment about armstrong.

(referring to Simeoni incident) The incident was not without precednt: in 1999 LA set the peleton against humble french rider Chrstophe Bassons; in 2003 he did the same to Patrice halgand, this years incident (2004) came at the moment when we should have been celebrating his sixth victory. We would of liked to see LA rise above these petty feuds and show himself above the common run of his profession, dropping the vain, worthless quarrels and bring in warmth and humanity into a sport which has been depply damaged. It was within Armstrong's grasp to do so but he chose to pass the opportunity. Nonetheless, small, but unnecessary blemishes are left on the image of a truly great champion

From what the article says and my observations, LA struggles to be the bigger man and always acts like a whinging little baby. maybe this is why he has had many failed Marriages and relationships screw up?
 
I read a lot of optimism, regarding Armstrong being better prepared/motivated, for next year's Tour.
What I am not reading is how this is going to be achieved and not only by him, but his aging team.

What I use for reference, is the only rider of almost identical age and the closest in ability, Gilberto Simoni.
For the past 3 years, even though he has turned up at the Giro with perfect preparation, having ridden all winter, there has been a steady, inevitable decline. The march of time gradually erroding his edge.
This year, he finally lost any claim to contender status.

I simply think it unlikely, but not impossible, that LA and some of his team members won't be effected by this most human of human failings, sometime in the near future.
 
Mellow Velo said:
I read a lot of optimism, regarding Armstrong being better prepared/motivated, for next year's Tour.
What I am not reading is how this is going to be achieved and not only by him, but his aging team.

The optimistic fanboys seem to have not asked themselves how Armstrong will get better prepared for the Tour while training to do an Ironman at the same time.
 
Oct 8, 2009
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In various interviews Contador has stated that he does admire all of Armstrong's achievements, he just doesn't admire him as a person, and who could blame him.

I also admire Armstrong's achievements, and I also admire him as a person, the dedication he puts in the things he wants to do well in, one can only but admire that.

However I have to say I was disappointed in the way he behaved himself during the last Tour. His comments sounded a bit bitter to me. After Contador decided to 'sacrifice' his chances to win on Mont Ventoux, LA didn't have one good word for him, on the podium in Paris as well, no sign of appreciation for the achievements of Contador. That kind of rubbed me the wrong way.
 
pmcg76 said:
I can gurantee you its not as bad in non-english speaking countries. The fact is, magazines like ProCycling, CycleSport are the top selling English language magazines in Europe but they also sell in the US so we are force fed Lance non stop even though we would rather read about CYCLING. In the most recent issue of Cycle Sport, the article on the Tour of Ireland focused on Lance who didnt even finish, the winner got a sidebar, this race took place almost 2 MONTHS ago. The race was reduced from 5 days to 3 because a big part of the budget was spent on attracting Lance, you see the problem I have.

To add to this post, the Cycle Sport America issue that was dedicated to reporting on the events of the 20009 Tour failed to even have a picture of the actual Tour winner on the cover! The cover photo was of Armstrong on Ventoux with one of the Scheck's (can't remember which one) in the background. For the life of me I can't fathom how they could justify deciding on that cover. One would think that at minimum they would include an image of Contador somewhere on the cover. The reporting inside though was fairly unbiased but how can they call themselves a credible cycling publication making decisions like that? Of course, not that Armstrong is to blame for the publications decision, but it really insults their audience. To me its almost unprecedented that the biggest and most important event in the sport that they cover and choose to disrespect the winner in that way. Mind boggling to me.
 
Well if nothing else, the 2010 Tour should be great as a spectacle.

A Grudge match between Mr. Omerta, and Contador. Two teams which hate each other trying to beat the shit out of each other for a whole 3 weeks? Bring it on!
 
Mountain Goat said:
A) No idea where it is. But there was a velo news interview and tv interviews during the Giro where he always said AC is the best cyclist in the world and that he is not sure he could beat him. Also, he said stuff along the lines of i would be happy working for alberto at the tour. Obviously he changed the story and didnt work for him so the answer to (B) is, no i don't trust what he says.

But, I don't really trust what most athletes say, becoz in my opinion, the beauty of sport (and especially cycling) is it a physical and mental game. without a doubt, lance was behind on the physical game, but damn he tried his best at the mental game. As such, I think his games were not inexcusable as you say, becoz cycling IS and always will be a mental game. Playing games with the media, and having them wrapped around your little finger is a HUGE asset, and lance does this well. Cadel Evans on the other hand, one of my favourite cyclists, he lets the media affect him, rather than taking the lance approach and influencing the media

The whole lance being arrogant thing is true. Like i said, he is arrogant, and people hate him for that. but without a doubt, the media makes him look even more arrogant than he is, which is why I think the 'haters' in this forum get obsessed with their anti-lance comments. I have to agree, there is a lot to hate about the guy, but i like the guy becoz of two things. one, the way he rides, and two, the way he talks. most people here, i suspect, don't like the guy for those same two reasons.

The simeoni thing is so overrated. I mean seriously, who cares? Cycling is full of personality clashes and that's what makes it so fascinating. I like watching PEOPLE on bikes. PEOPLE have personalities and that's why I respect the fact that people hate lance for his personality. Without arrogance and personality, this sport would be very boring.

This sentence right here is what we hate about Lance apologists, they dismiss the Simeoni affair as insignificant when it fact it represents the problems at the core of pro cycling. We had an athlete testifying against a doctor who is rightly regarded as the biggest doping doctor ever, in a trial that started before Lance was even connected with said doctor or even before he won a Tour. Lance called him a liar in anewspaper article just to try to protect his own name. Simeoni threatened to sue and then this unseemly incident was brought to worldwide attention by Lance, not the other way around as some peole suggest.

If people are ok with this or think it is a personality clash, sorry but you are more or less justifying doping, ometra and believe that riders who speak out should be silenced. You call yourself a cycling fan, you should be ashamed to support such a notion. Having lived through Festina, the Simeoni incident was the moment when I finally became anti-Lance as it became obvious he had no interest in defeating doping or clean cycling and would go to any length to silence cyclists who spoke about the doping problem. Shameful behaviour.
 
Jun 24, 2009
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Angliru said:
To add to this post, the Cycle Sport America issue that was dedicated to reporting on the events of the 20009 Tour failed to even have a picture of the actual Tour winner on the cover! The cover photo was of Armstrong on Ventoux with one of the Scheck's (can't remember which one) in the background. For the life of me I can't fathom how they could justify deciding on that cover. One would think that at minimum they would include an image of Contador somewhere on the cover. The reporting inside though was fairly unbiased but how can they call themselves a credible cycling publication making decisions like that? Of course, not that Armstrong is to blame for the publications decision, but it really insults their audience. To me its almost unprecedented that the biggest and most important event in the sport that they cover and choose to disrespect the winner in that way. Mind boggling to me.
Which is why I, for one, will not spend my money any longer, on Cycle Sport or Pro cycling magazines. They make many questionable editorial decisions that bother me as a fan of the sport. And they are fairly expensive magazines, to be dropping that much cash for such shoddy reporting and editing. They never give you any real inside information that you can't get somewhere else these days. So the internet is now my sole source of information. Although, as you guys know, many sources are available within it's framework. And this forum is often helpful in expanding those sources with the many links other members provide.
 
What people may overlook, with Armstrong's old age and 8 TdF podiums plus a WC in earlier years... He had quite a few years off the bike. First cancer, then for being Lance Retired. What does it add up to, compared to a hard trianing domestique that quits at 39?
I myself have been slacking for quite a few years, and do notice a sense of youth in my old body. Once warmed up, it's really not all that bad.
For a guy as lance who can take som much training, and has mastered peaking as well as he has, being 38 and of those having had 2 long breaks off the pro bike, might help him feel less of an old man.
Pro sports years, for most people, add up. there is an optimum. Those who started later, peak later. Perhaps those who've been off pro sports for a number of years, are fresher than peers with non-stops careers of 1-2 GT's per season?
 
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