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“I have never admired Armstrong and never will.”

Page 6 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
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Aug 9, 2009
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Yes, that's what I thought as well. Even so, I don't see what JB's role is in the Armstrong empire after the 1-2 years that Lance has left in him unless he plans to retire along with Lance.
 
Maybe...

Maybe Astana will let AC out of his contract and hold JB, Zubeldia, Kloden, Popo and whoever else they can for Astana in '10. Then AC can go to go Garmin or Sky or whatever and we can have a true 3 ring circus on our hands. (With LA at the shack w/out his pals)
 
ggusta said:
Maybe Astana will let AC out of hi contract and hold JB, Zubeldia, Kloden, Popo and whoever else they can for Astana in '10. Then AC can go to go Garmin or Sky or whatever and we can have a true 3 ring circus on our hands.

Now that's called thinking outside of the box. Maybe they transfer Wiggans to Astana as well. :p
 
mitchman said:
13 pages of LA hate.......we love to chop down the tall trees.

Tall-poppy syndrome is overrated, not all champions are treated with contempt by a large group of followers. There's an obvious difference between justified antagonising and "hate".

Woods, Federer are both the best ever, yet have almost universal support for their participation and the manner in which they do so. On a side-note, these guys are so perfect and "clean" that it makes them hard for me to support, champions need to be hated to be loved :p

Then there's others who in their own right, have also dominated a sport for a period of time - Armstrong, Schumacher etc people tend to cut these champions down more because there are blemishes on their records. Lance has acted without morals on occasions, and some of the gamesmanship performed by Schumacher was deemed to be nothing other than cheating.

There are heaps of people with shady pasts on or off the field which means they are a target for "hate", and rightfully so. There are also champions who have spotless lives and rarely find themselves in the cross-hairs of society.

People "hate" these imperfectionists regardless of how popular they are. Only the volume of hate is proportional to popularity. That's why tall-poppy syndrome is a myth, people will dislike someone if they do things which violate their principles, regardless of whether they see that person walking down the street, or on TV. It's the simple fact that notable people are exposing themselves to a wider audience that they seem to attract more hate.
 
Jun 24, 2009
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Ferminal said:
Tall-poppy syndrome is overrated, not all champions are treated with contempt by a large group of followers. There's an obvious difference between justified antagonising and "hate".

Woods, Federer are both the best ever, yet have almost universal support for their participation and the manner in which they do so. On a side-note, these guys are so perfect and "clean" that it makes them hard for me to support, champions need to be hated to be loved :p

Then there's others who in their own right, have also dominated a sport for a period of time - Armstrong, Schumacher etc people tend to cut these champions down more because there are blemishes on their records. Lance has acted without morals on occasions, and some of the gamesmanship performed by Schumacher was deemed to be nothing other than cheating.

There are heaps of people with shady pasts on or off the field which means they are a target for "hate", and rightfully so. There are also champions who have spotless lives and rarely find themselves in the cross-hairs of society.

People "hate" these imperfectionists regardless of how popular they are. Only the volume of hate is proportional to popularity. That's why tall-poppy syndrome is a myth, people will dislike someone if they do things which violate their principles, regardless of whether they see that person walking down the street, or on TV. It's the simple fact that notable people are exposing themselves to a wider audience that they seem to attract more hate.
Wow, I love that one. Really, very nicely articulated.
 
Jul 26, 2009
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hfer07 said:
I believe that LA & Bruyneel aren't interested in "cycling" anymore- and by that I mean- winning races. what lately motivates the two of them is the MONEY & The Business Aspect of it, the sponsorships, the endorsements, the power game, the fame/expansion of the brand/the cycling industry and anything else around it.
that point of view is the principal reason why Contador & Bruyneel didn't bond the same way, since Alberto is a racer by nature & find joy in winning as many as he can, whereas Johann & Lance take pleasure in cycling as a "very lucrative" profession.

have you seen bruyneels wife........somebody has to pay for that
 
Aug 25, 2009
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mitchman said:
13 pages of LA hate.......we love to chop down the tall trees.

More like 1300, or 13000 around here. This forum is virtually built on it, it would be a small fraction of it's size without it. He who shouts loudest and longest is most clever and most right. Apparently......:rolleyes:
 
fatandfast said:
Most of views are revisionist history. Armstrong maybe an *** but he is out of the league of Contador, Frank&Andy,LL,and why Wiggins comes in anyplace nobody has a clue. Lance already won the tour 7 times and World's. Alberto and I guess everybody else can learn the lil'ditty, don't count your chickens before they are hatched. A broken femur or serious injury could send the tiny Spaniard to the bike shop. Everybody is so sure of themselves until they don't win anymore. Lance still makes the rules until he decides otherwise. He could snap his fingers and get more sponsorship money than all of Spain has in their budget. Go to an airport in the western world and have the two of them get off a plane, Alberto will be assumed to be there to carry Armstrong's luggage. Why bother with a neutral audience have the 2 get off in Seville or Madrid,Alberto would still be second rate. Except for the handful of us with shaved legs and cycling knowledge. Armstrong can speak to and be published in any magazine he wants not only cycling. Alberto's publisist can't get him a paid gig on Mexican TV. You guys have brought new meaning to "I am big in Japan".

LOL. That was so funny and probably not far off the mark. And of course Lance juices and El Pistola is so clean. I'm ****ing myself.
 
Jun 24, 2009
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progressor said:
More like 1300, or 13000 around here. This forum is virtually built on it, it would be a small fraction of it's size without it. He who shouts loudest and longest is most clever and most right. Apparently......:rolleyes:

Posters have not been "shouting". This forum is not an anomalous entity. In most cases, they've merely been presenting their cases for why they don't stand behind LA. There is no "hate" involved when something/someone you may have once liked, changes, and you cannot appreciate the change that has come over that thing/person.
Do you just ignore it when someone presents the fact that they might have once liked LA. But after experiencing the behavior he displayed in his attempt to take over the team he joined, with the sole goal of recapturing a Tour de France title. Many were turned off by his crass efforts.
During the Giro, I was still on the fence about his intentions(which he kept very guarded). And, in fact, I felt he was doing something rather unique by allowing us into the team bus through videos on the Livestrong.com site. I felt he was taking the PR into his own hands, and controlling his visibility, very nicely.
But then the Tour came. LA did not act with the grace of a Champion, as far as I'm concerned. He took that control he used in the Giro, and started turning it against a superior teammate. Before you knew it, AC was being portrayed as not too savvy. It went as far as his intelligence was being questioned. LA was twittering away, snidely answering questions about credit he should be due, as a former TdF winner. Pulling team cars out from under AC (before the start of the Annecy ITT, and after the Mt. Ventoux stage) and a host of other petty remarks and incidents which, in the end, was not admirable behavior. Behavior that should not have been exhibited by a former champion of his caliber.
And then, after all has been said and done, all the LA fans love to say that LA did acknowledge that AC was the better man in this years Tour. Wow, big admission!!! I'm sure glad he let us know that. Unfortunately, it was all very unseemly, and it turned me off to a man I once had great admiration for. Does that sound like HATE to you? It's thought out, It's based on observations that I could not condone But, it's not emotional. In fact, for a time it was a very uncomfortable transition, that I felt had to be sorted out in a balanced, objective manner. I think many cycling fans went through a similar metamorphosis as this year and this years Tour progressed.
Finally, I am glad that he will be on his own team next year. I will not be a fan of his, and I feel sure that he will not take the title. But at least there won't be any excuses, and all the differences will be resolved on the road, next year. No HATE, but no LIKE either. You might want to learn, to distinguish the subtle differences between the two..... or not. It's your choice.:)
 
Oct 8, 2009
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racerralph said:
But then the Tour came. LA did not act with the grace of a Champion, as far as I'm concerned. He took that control he used in the Giro, and started turning it against a superior teammate. Before you knew it, AC was being portrayed as not too savvy. It went as far as his intelligence was being questioned. LA was twittering away, snidely answering questions about credit he should be due, as a former TdF winner. Pulling team cars out from under AC (before the start of the Annecy ITT, and after the Mt. Ventoux stage) and a host of other petty remarks and incidents which, in the end, was not admirable behavior. Behavior that should not have been exhibited by a former champion of his caliber.

Very well said.
 
Aug 25, 2009
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racerralph said:
In most cases, they've merely been presenting their cases for why they don't stand behind LA.

over and over and over and.....

racerralph said:
There is no "hate" involved when something/someone you may have once liked, changes, and you cannot appreciate the change that has come over that thing/person.

with all the neutral perspective that one side of a failed relationship alway's gives:rolleyes:
 
Mar 12, 2009
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racerralph said:
Posters have not been "shouting". This forum is not an anomalous entity. In most cases, they've merely been presenting their cases for why they don't stand behind LA. There is no "hate" involved when something/someone you may have once liked, changes, and you cannot appreciate the change that has come over that thing/person.
Do you just ignore it when someone presents the fact that they might have once liked LA. But after experiencing the behavior he displayed in his attempt to take over the team he joined, with the sole goal of recapturing a Tour de France title. Many were turned off by his crass efforts.
During the Giro, I was still on the fence about his intentions(which he kept very guarded). And, in fact, I felt he was doing something rather unique by allowing us into the team bus through videos on the Livestrong.com site. I felt he was taking the PR into his own hands, and controlling his visibility, very nicely.
But then the Tour came. LA did not act with the grace of a Champion, as far as I'm concerned. He took that control he used in the Giro, and started turning it against a superior teammate. Before you knew it, AC was being portrayed as not too savvy. It went as far as his intelligence was being questioned. LA was twittering away, snidely answering questions about credit he should be due, as a former TdF winner. Pulling team cars out from under AC (before the start of the Annecy ITT, and after the Mt. Ventoux stage) and a host of other petty remarks and incidents which, in the end, was not admirable behavior. Behavior that should not have been exhibited by a former champion of his caliber.
And then, after all has been said and done, all the LA fans love to say that LA did acknowledge that AC was the better man in this years Tour. Wow, big admission!!! I'm sure glad he let us know that. Unfortunately, it was all very unseemly, and it turned me off to a man I once had great admiration for. Does that sound like HATE to you? It's thought out, It's based on observations that I could not condone But, it's not emotional. In fact, for a time it was a very uncomfortable transition, that I felt had to be sorted out in a balanced, objective manner. I think many cycling fans went through a similar metamorphosis as this year and this years Tour progressed.
Finally, I am glad that he will be on his own team next year. I will not be a fan of his, and I feel sure that he will not take the title. But at least there won't be any excuses, and all the differences will be resolved on the road, next year. No HATE, but no LIKE either. You might want to learn, to distinguish the subtle differences between the two..... or not. It's your choice.:)

+1
well said.
 
racerralph said:
Posters have not been "shouting". This forum is not an anomalous entity. In most cases, they've merely been presenting their cases for why they don't stand behind LA. There is no "hate" involved when something/someone you may have once liked, changes, and you cannot appreciate the change that has come over that thing/person.
Do you just ignore it when someone presents the fact that they might have once liked LA. But after experiencing the behavior he displayed in his attempt to take over the team he joined, with the sole goal of recapturing a Tour de France title. Many were turned off by his crass efforts.
During the Giro, I was still on the fence about his intentions(which he kept very guarded). And, in fact, I felt he was doing something rather unique by allowing us into the team bus through videos on the Livestrong.com site. I felt he was taking the PR into his own hands, and controlling his visibility, very nicely.
But then the Tour came. LA did not act with the grace of a Champion, as far as I'm concerned. He took that control he used in the Giro, and started turning it against a superior teammate. Before you knew it, AC was being portrayed as not too savvy. It went as far as his intelligence was being questioned. LA was twittering away, snidely answering questions about credit he should be due, as a former TdF winner. Pulling team cars out from under AC (before the start of the Annecy ITT, and after the Mt. Ventoux stage) and a host of other petty remarks and incidents which, in the end, was not admirable behavior. Behavior that should not have been exhibited by a former champion of his caliber.
And then, after all has been said and done, all the LA fans love to say that LA did acknowledge that AC was the better man in this years Tour. Wow, big admission!!! I'm sure glad he let us know that. Unfortunately, it was all very unseemly, and it turned me off to a man I once had great admiration for. Does that sound like HATE to you? It's thought out, It's based on observations that I could not condone But, it's not emotional. In fact, for a time it was a very uncomfortable transition, that I felt had to be sorted out in a balanced, objective manner. I think many cycling fans went through a similar metamorphosis as this year and this years Tour progressed.
Finally, I am glad that he will be on his own team next year. I will not be a fan of his, and I feel sure that he will not take the title. But at least there won't be any excuses, and all the differences will be resolved on the road, next year. No HATE, but no LIKE either. You might want to learn, to distinguish the subtle differences between the two..... or not. It's your choice.:)

Agreed.

A lot of us didnt need to wait until this year to form our opinions on Lance. Anybody who has been following Lance throughout his career and especially his Tour streak already knew what kind of character he was.

The incidents with Bassons and Simeoni would be enough for most people to take an instant dislike to the guy. What we seen this year only confirmed what we already knew and have said all along. I will admit it wasnt until the Simeoni affair that I finally realised what type of person he was and I think a lot of people on here are of the same opinion.

There is more than enough justification to dislike him and we should never feel bad about it because a few people are unable to separate the athlete from the person. Too many sports stars get away with being a **** because of their sporting achievements which is sad.
 
pmcg76 said:
Agreed.

A lot of us didnt need to wait until this year to form our opinions on Lance. Anybody who has been following Lance throughout his career and especially his Tour streak already knew what kind of character he was.

The incidents with Bassons and Simeoni would be enough for most people to take an instant dislike to the guy. What we seen this year only confirmed what we already knew and have said all along. I will admit it wasnt until the Simeoni affair that I finally realised what type of person he was and I think a lot of people on here are of the same opinion.

There is more than enough justification to dislike him and we should never feel bad about it because a few people are unable to separate the athlete from the person. Too many sports stars get away with being a **** because of their sporting achievements which is sad.

I think the difference is that he normally won the race so people would see this behaviour as “strategy” rather than just being an as5hole. Since he got 3rd this year people have realised that he is just an as5hole. Nothing more and nothing less.
 
Apr 12, 2009
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racerralph said:
Posters have not been "shouting". This forum is not an anomalous entity. In most cases, they've merely been presenting their cases for why they don't stand behind LA. There is no "hate" involved when something/someone you may have once liked, changes, and you cannot appreciate the change that has come over that thing/person.
Do you just ignore it when someone presents the fact that they might have once liked LA. But after experiencing the behavior he displayed in his attempt to take over the team he joined, with the sole goal of recapturing a Tour de France title. Many were turned off by his crass efforts.
During the Giro, I was still on the fence about his intentions(which he kept very guarded). And, in fact, I felt he was doing something rather unique by allowing us into the team bus through videos on the Livestrong.com site. I felt he was taking the PR into his own hands, and controlling his visibility, very nicely.
But then the Tour came. LA did not act with the grace of a Champion, as far as I'm concerned. He took that control he used in the Giro, and started turning it against a superior teammate. Before you knew it, AC was being portrayed as not too savvy. It went as far as his intelligence was being questioned. LA was twittering away, snidely answering questions about credit he should be due, as a former TdF winner. Pulling team cars out from under AC (before the start of the Annecy ITT, and after the Mt. Ventoux stage) and a host of other petty remarks and incidents which, in the end, was not admirable behavior. Behavior that should not have been exhibited by a former champion of his caliber.
And then, after all has been said and done, all the LA fans love to say that LA did acknowledge that AC was the better man in this years Tour. Wow, big admission!!! I'm sure glad he let us know that. Unfortunately, it was all very unseemly, and it turned me off to a man I once had great admiration for. Does that sound like HATE to you? It's thought out, It's based on observations that I could not condone But, it's not emotional. In fact, for a time it was a very uncomfortable transition, that I felt had to be sorted out in a balanced, objective manner. I think many cycling fans went through a similar metamorphosis as this year and this years Tour progressed.
Finally, I am glad that he will be on his own team next year. I will not be a fan of his, and I feel sure that he will not take the title. But at least there won't be any excuses, and all the differences will be resolved on the road, next year. No HATE, but no LIKE either. You might want to learn, to distinguish the subtle differences between the two..... or not. It's your choice.:)

Agreed, very well said ralph it's funny most of us so called "haters" were once LA fans who saw his performance after cancer inspiring, but how could we go back to being fans of his after all the **** we've seen him do.

progressor said:
over and over and over and.....

yes we state our point over and over because with idiots like you posting pointless drivel on this forum how could we not try to help you to take the blind fold off.
 
Oct 13, 2009
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I think any “true champion” will never be happy with second place. That’s what makes them champions! The guy’s that are happy with second place do not have what it takes to win seven tours….

Face it all you Lance haters….he is bigger than the sport of bike racing and that’s what you really don’t like……
 
mitchman said:
I think any “true champion” will never be happy with second place. That’s what makes them champions! The guy’s that are happy with second place do not have what it takes to win seven tours….

Face it all you Lance haters….he is bigger than the sport of bike racing and that’s what you really don’t like……

No, he thinks he is, and people who think they are bigger than the sport they compete in/oversee are the ones directly responsible for ruining it. Cycling is full of these people/organisations.

If Lance was bigger than cycling, he never would have returned. You can do a lot more for cancer if you don't have to worry about being a full-time professional athlete.
 
hfer07 said:
I believe that LA & Bruyneel aren't interested in "cycling" anymore- and by that I mean- winning races.

If that's the case isn't rather convenient that the season that Armstrong has absolutely no serious wins to his credit that it can be attributed to winning not being an interest of his any longer.:confused:
 
mitchman said:
I think any “true champion” will never be happy with second place. That’s what makes them champions! The guy’s that are happy with second place do not have what it takes to win seven tours….

Face it all you Lance haters….he is bigger than the sport of bike racing and that’s what you really don’t like……

After all that has been shared from those explaining their reasons why they no longer are fans of Armstrong, your post tells me that you have some kind of blind man-love thing going on here with Armstrong. You have your hands over your ears and your eyes closed tight as you sing "La la la la! I'm not listening to you! La la la la!";)
 
Apr 12, 2009
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mitchman said:
I think any “true champion” will never be happy with second place. That’s what makes them champions! The guy’s that are happy with second place do not have what it takes to win seven tours….

Face it all you Lance haters….he is bigger than the sport of bike racing and that’s what you really don’t like……


Nobody is bigger than cycling, not armstrong not contador not cavendish, the sport was better when he was gone and it will be better once he has left the sport will be better off once again, the fact is we don't need radio shack we don't need a sponsor in the sport for one man, we need more garmin's and columbia's not radioshack.
 
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