• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

“I have never admired Armstrong and never will.”

Status
Not open for further replies.
“I have never admired Armstrong and never will.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article6870238.ece


Lance Armstrong versus Alberto Contador has been one of the great dogfights of the year. It was a warfare that was fascinatingly psychological, a Tour de France epic that has every chance of delivering a sequel to match next summer.

And although they may now be continents apart, there is no sign of an outbreak of peloton peace; even over the course of an interview in London, Contador has not downed tools.

First of all, the Spaniard does speak English. Not good English but satisfactory. Half of what he says here is his own English, the other half is his interpreter’s, to whom he only sometimes deferred. But this is not the Contador who, en route to his second Tour de France victory in July, would meekly use the language barrier as another form of self-defence.

Throughout July, Contador presented himself as something of an innocent caught up unwillingly in a spat for which he had no verbal appetite. Armstrong, his American team-mate and arch rival, would play politics and, daily, spin a self-serving narrative through the media. And Contador would not engage, choosing to fight only in the saddle

On the road, he had the heart of a warrior and you wondered: off it, surely, he cannot be as passive as he makes out. At last, when it was all done, he let fly a quote that probably said more about himself than it did about Armstrong: “I have never admired Armstrong and never will.”

Here in London last Friday, he topped that up by giving his views on Armstrong’s chances of taking the yellow jersey back from him next year. He was here for the Cycle Show, where he was making an appearance for his sponsor, Science in Sport, but in an interview with The Times, he said that the seven-times champion is no longer his main danger and in fact does not even come second.

Armstrong has said that he will come back better and stronger next year, when he will be 38, but Contador said that, “Though he has loads of experience, he is not now the No 1 challenger. No, I think the main threat will be Andy Schleck. I think Lance is on the same level as other riders of the same calibre: Bradley Wiggins, Frank Schleck and Levi Leipheimer.”

He made his point by explaining why, if anyone was going to be coming back stronger and faster next year, it will be himself. Given his dominance this year, that is a daunting prospect, albeit a logical one. “I think it is possible to improve because I am 26 years old and normally the peak years for a rider are 28 or 29,” he said. “I am sure I can be stronger.”

He was very specific about which areas of his race he can improve. One of his more awesome achievements on this year’s Tour was his imperious victory in the time-trial around Lake Annecy, yet he said that he expects that aspect to get better. “And I think I can go faster in the mountains for longer,” he said. “As I get older, I should be able to maintain attacks for longer.”

Again, although these observations may be rooted in common sense, it takes a certain self-assurance to voice them, just as it does to add that actually his main concern is not Andy Schleck, and it is certainly not Armstrong either. “No,” he said, “my biggest danger and my main worry is my own form.”

But while Contador is confident, he does not come over as arrogant; here he is explaining how and why he may be soon be beating the rest of the world by even more, and how his biggest threat is no one but himself, yet he seems somehow modest.

He manages the same feat when discussing this year’s win, when he explains that, although he put the rest of the field to the sword, he could have destroyed them by more. His first significant move was on the Andorran climb to Arcalis, yet he acknowledges that it could have been more emphatic. “That day, I was feeling really, really good,” he said. “I went from 2km but could so easily have gone earlier.” Likewise on Mont Ventoux. “I could have attacked more,” he said. “I don’t know how much quicker I could have gone, but if I had been working with Andy Schleck, I could have done some more damage.”

Contador was, naturally, working for his team, Astana, albeit that he did not feel the team were always working for him.

“I did feel lonely,” he said. “I had good people around me, but not the number of people that I should have had.” The problem, of course, was that Armstrong and he had vaulting ambitions and both needed an entire team on their side rather than a fragmented one. And that day in Annecy, particularly, it seemed that Contador had not even a fragment.

“Working with Lance was a difficult and strange situation because there wasn’t good communication between us,” he said. “And the difficulty wasn’t just with him but it was a delicate situation for all the other riders and staff.”

In Annecy, the situation was that Contador discovered that the rest of his team had departed for the time-trial and left him behind, requiring a lift from his brother. Were his team not supporting him that day? “Well, that is possible but that wasn’t different to other moments,” he said.

The key for Contador is to find a team for next year that does work in his favour. In this respect, Armstrong has taken the lead by starting his own team, Team RadioShack, ripping out the best from Astana and bringing it in under his command.

Contador, again, is left exposed, the most valuable rider on the road and yet the least settled and, again, outmanoeuvred by the man who is now officially his rival. That the route for next year’s Tour is to be announced on Wednesday illustrates how time for Contador is running out. Sorting out his team, he acknowledges is key because possibilities for him are vast.

Armstrong was 27 when he won his first Tour de France, Contador is 26 and he has won two. He believes he can stay competitive until he is 33. At best, that gives him nine Tour wins, yet Contador has no desire to be defined by his rivalry with the American, or to go past Armstrong’s seven.

“My objective is to go year by year,” he said. “If I win three Tours, I’ll be happy; if I win four, I’ll be more happy. I don’t have an end goal.” What he has proved is that he has the potential for many. And that modestly, confidently, he will continue to collect them.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Well written.

Bold move by AC saying LA is in the league of Wiggins, F.schleck and LL (3 guys who wont ever win the tour and have never won any GT).

If anything, that will motivate LA more than anything. Despite what people say about the guy, he is fueled by frustration and anger at times, as this was discussed extensively throughout his 7 wins. If I was AC, I would continue letting my bike do the talking. Playing media games is LA's trick, and I think AC would be a lot more powerful if he just embarassed LA on the roads of france.

I feel sorry for Contador, as he was isolated this year, but if anything the guy has proved that he is numero uno, and without a doubt has so much power in the future to build a team around him and win more GT's than LA ever did. Clearly, AC can win tours without 8 guys working for him.

Obviously, one year left at astana may be hard for him, but after that, whether it's Caisse, Garmin or a team backed by Alonso, the guy has got a huge future ahead of him, as he is so young.

My only hope is that he does not forget about the other GT's, and I hope as he gets older he decides to do the tour and vuelta back-to-back to add his home race once, twice, thrice again to his palmares. 2 GT's per year, is achievable as a rider gets older. Once he's 28, i think he could do the double
 
Aug 6, 2009
1,901
1
0
Visit site
Mountain Goat said:
Well written.

Bold move by AC saying LA is in the league of Wiggins, F.schleck and LL (3 guys who wont ever win the tour and have never won any GT).

Well based on his performance this year I think it's basically true. At least Frank Schleck was IMO closer to Armstrong than Armstrong was to Andy.

Mountain Goat said:
My only hope is that he does not forget about the other GT's, and I hope as he gets older he decides to do the tour and vuelta back-to-back to add his home race once, twice, thrice again to his palmares. 2 GT's per year, is achievable as a rider gets older. Once he's 28, i think he could do the double
That would be nice to see. Plus if he can't do it then he'd only mess up his Vuelta, not the Tour. Trying the Giro-Tour would be more dangerous.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Cerberus said:
(i) Well based on his performance this year I think it's basically true. At least Frank Schleck was IMO closer to Armstrong than Armstrong was to Andy.


(ii) That would be nice to see. Plus if he can't do it then he'd only mess up his Vuelta, not the Tour. Trying the Giro-Tour would be more dangerous.

(i) key point - "this year". Look at guys like basso, vino, after two years off and they are nowhere near they're GT wins from 06. Armstrong after 3.5 years off gets a giro 11th and tdf 3rd, which i think puts him well above wiggins, schleck, LL. Plus, he started training for leadville in 08 which led to the decision to come out retirement, so he did make a huge leap. One more year, i think contador is the only guy that can beat him at the tour.

(ii) Spot on. I think the Giro-Tour is a huge risk.

Being spanish, the Tour-Vuelta double is perfect for him. Once he's older and has more season long endurance, then you're right, he can win a tour and then if he podiums in the Vuelta, well at least he did something different, but i believe he can win the double in 2011 onwards
 
Aug 6, 2009
1,901
1
0
Visit site
Mountain Goat said:
(i) key point - "this year". Look at guys like basso, vino, after two years off and they are nowhere near they're GT wins from 06. Armstrong after 3.5 years off gets a giro 11th and tdf 3rd, which i think puts him well above wiggins, schleck, LL. Plus, he started training for leadville in 08 which led to the decision to come out retirement, so he did make a huge leap. One more year, i think contador is the only guy that can beat him at the tour.

He'll be almost 39 next Tour. Andy will be 25. I'd say Andy has as least as much potential for improving as Armstrong. Wiggins is on his first serious attempt on a GT ever. He also has a potential to improve and he's not beyond his prime. Also Cadel Evans, Sastre and Menchov might not all have off years again. Valverde might be allowed to race and Nibali, Gesink and other young riders will have matured further. I think Armstrong will be lucky to match his podium placement next year. Of cause I didn't think he'd podium this year either, so I guess we'll see which one of us can come back and say "I told you so" in a small years time.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Cerberus said:
I think Armstrong will be lucky to match his podium placement next year. Of cause I didn't think he'd podium this year either, so I guess we'll see which one of us can come back and say "I told you so" in a small years time.

Hahaha good point

Actually for the tour, I predicted Armstrong, Contador, Evans as podium (but no particular order - was hoping evans, but way off the mark), so we all make mistakes hahaha.

I was surprised at how average LAs TTing was this year. You're right about all the other riders you mentioned, so hopefully all the guys avoid crashes, sickness and lack of form like this year, to have, potentially 10 guys capable of challenging the podium.

I'm actually tipping the same podium for 2010 as i did for 2009.. i really should treat A.Schleck as a contender, as he rode WAY above my expectation this year. I'd love to see him win one.
 
Mountain Goat said:
(i) key point - "this year". Look at guys like basso, vino, after two years off and they are nowhere near they're GT wins from 06. Armstrong after 3.5 years off gets a giro 11th and tdf 3rd, which i think puts him well above wiggins, schleck, LL. Plus, he started training for leadville in 08 which led to the decision to come out retirement, so he did make a huge leap. One more year, i think contador is the only guy that can beat him at the tour.

Thats because Basso and Vino stopped doping. Armstrong did not.
 
Sep 25, 2009
7,527
1
0
Visit site
Mountain Goat said:
If anything, that will motivate LA more than anything. Despite what people say about the guy, he is fueled by frustration and anger
this spanish boy showed the strength of character armstrong never had.

being fueled by anger and vindictiveness is not a strength.. it’s a weakness of character and it eventually catches up with the image built on the cancer misfortune and converted to sainthood by some fans.
 
Aug 6, 2009
1,901
1
0
Visit site
Mountain Goat said:
Hahaha good point

Actually for the tour, I predicted Armstrong, Contador, Evans as podium (but no particular order - was hoping evans, but way off the mark), so we all make mistakes hahaha.

I was surprised at how average LAs TTing was this year. You're right about all the other riders you mentioned, so hopefully all the guys avoid crashes, sickness and lack of form like this year, to have, potentially 10 guys capable of challenging the podium.

I'm actually tipping the same podium for 2010 as i did for 2009.. i really should treat A.Schleck as a contender, as he rode WAY above my expectation this year. I'd love to see him win one.
I'd tip Contador as the winner and Andy Schleck as number 2. I think there are an awful lot of candidates for the third spot so I'll pass on making a prediction on that for now considering that we don’t know who’ll even race or what the route is. At least I don’t know the route, it might have been published without me noticing it.
 
Sep 25, 2009
7,527
1
0
Visit site
if i was contador i'd try to amass 7 gt titles first and then concentrate on the tdf exclusively. that way he'd amply show versatility of his achievements compared to onesidedness of his nemesis.
 
Apr 12, 2009
1,087
2
0
Visit site
Well written article, I've been waiting for an english speaking newspaper to tell contador's side of this debacle, and I do agree with ac his main challenger is schleck, although LA finished on the podium it was a lackluster performance, solely depending upon the time trial and teammates dragging him to the finish line. Mountain goat we're talking about LA now not LA 2002 and right now he's not in andy's category.
 
Mountain Goat said:
Well written.

Bold move by AC saying LA is in the league of Wiggins, F.schleck and LL (3 guys who wont ever win the tour and have never won any GT).

If anything, that will motivate LA more than anything. Despite what people say about the guy, he is fueled by frustration and anger at times, as this was discussed extensively throughout his 7 wins. If I was AC, I would continue letting my bike do the talking. Playing media games is LA's trick, and I think AC would be a lot more powerful if he just embarassed LA on the roads of france.

I feel sorry for Contador, as he was isolated this year, but if anything the guy has proved that he is numero uno, and without a doubt has so much power in the future to build a team around him and win more GT's than LA ever did. Clearly, AC can win tours without 8 guys working for him.

Obviously, one year left at astana may be hard for him, but after that, whether it's Caisse, Garmin or a team backed by Alonso, the guy has got a huge future ahead of him, as he is so young.

My only hope is that he does not forget about the other GT's, and I hope as he gets older he decides to do the tour and vuelta back-to-back to add his home race once, twice, thrice again to his palmares. 2 GT's per year, is achievable as a rider gets older. Once he's 28, i think he could do the double

This is the beauty of what AC said. It was . . . the truth. Lance already should have motivation to want to be the best. He's not, but he should already be aiming for it. What I think you are saying is that by AC saying this, he's embarrassed LA and that LA will want revenge. Again, I don't think it will change the outcome one bit.

LA can be angry, embarrassed or whatever, but it is still not going to change the fact that he's 38, that he cannot match AC's accelerations in the mountains, and hasn't yet demonstrated that he can match him in the TTs. LA was extremely motivated this year. He told anyone who would listen that he was there to win. That he was hitting the same numbers in training that he did in 2002, 2003. And we all saw what that meant at the Prologue. At the end of the day, he no longer has the tools to compete with the likes of Andy Schleck and AC.
 
If LA fans are to be believed, he has ability to tap into an inexhaustable reserve of motivation.
Couple this, to his ability to train far harder than the rest of the peloton slackers, while still finding time for LAF, Twitter and all the trappings of celebritism and the only person to stand the remotest of chances of beating him, should be Clark Kent.

Contador has his measure.

Fact is, he rode his luck at the Tour, rode above expectations and scraped a third.
He is on the way down, while Contador, Schleck and a number of others, are on the way up.
Menchov, Sastre and Evans will not ride the 2010 Tour, as they did the 2009.
With the prospect of no TTT, and pushing 39, making the top 10, will be an achievement.
Winning it would be a Tour de Farce.
 
Contador is obviously better than any other active GT rider. Armstrong should have stayed retired. It is all old news.

Here is where the double standard comes in. Alberto said nothing controversial or even new, yet the new fanboys gobble up every word like it is gospel. Contador is simply a Spanish version of the Lance Armstrong narrative. He is no longer just a talented rider. He is a medical miracle. He is a soft spoken little lamb. He rides clean while that nasty Armstrong is a rotten doper (much like Armstrong was clean when Ulrich and Basso were dopers). Contador is Armstrong 2.0. The cult is forming.
 
Well written, but news 2-3 months late.

I don't see why people are so certain that Lance will be a threat to anyone next year in any major race? He was fortunate to get where he did this year, mostly by the TTT and following Kloden.

The only way Lance wins the Tour next year is if Contador, and several other guys drop. By all logical indication, even if there's the very long TTT next year that Lance and RS wants, AC should win the 2010 Tour by several minutes.
 
Jul 14, 2009
2,498
0
0
Visit site
Most of views are revisionist history. Armstrong maybe an *** but he is out of the league of Contador, Frank&Andy,LL,and why Wiggins comes in anyplace nobody has a clue. Lance already won the tour 7 times and World's. Alberto and I guess everybody else can learn the lil'ditty, don't count your chickens before they are hatched. A broken femur or serious injury could send the tiny Spaniard to the bike shop. Everybody is so sure of themselves until they don't win anymore. Lance still makes the rules until he decides otherwise. He could snap his fingers and get more sponsorship money than all of Spain has in their budget. Go to an airport in the western world and have the two of them get off a plane, Alberto will be assumed to be there to carry Armstrong's luggage. Why bother with a neutral audience have the 2 get off in Seville or Madrid,Alberto would still be second rate. Except for the handful of us with shaved legs and cycling knowledge. Armstrong can speak to and be published in any magazine he wants not only cycling. Alberto's publisist can't get him a paid gig on Mexican TV. You guys have brought new meaning to "I am big in Japan".
 
fatandfast said:
Lance still makes the rules until he decides otherwise.
Certainly true when it comes to following dope testing procedures. How long did it take him to get his Bio passport, again?

fatandfast said:
He could snap his fingers and get more sponsorship money than all of Spain has in their budget.
We waited for months. All these big name sponsors were rumoured and all we got, was The Shack. :eek:
Maybe if he hadn't shafted The Discovery Channel......

fatandfast said:
You guys have brought new meaning to "I am big in Japan".
I think the term you are looking for is, "I am big in America", when speaking in pro cycling terms.

I think we can agree that you bring your own version of revisionist history, to the table.
 
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Don't think Armstrong can even repeat this performance.

Next year definately more young folk will mix in between. Gesink, Kreuziger, Nibali, you name them

Exactly. These guys are on the rise, why Radioshack has invested so heavily in riders on the downside of their careers is beyond me. I think the 2010 season, and specifically the 2010 TdF, will be about shutting the door on the older crowd (i.e., the Shack). They had their moment in the sun . . . it's time to move on.
 
Just like athletes in other sports, Lance will stick around until completely shown the door. Muhammad Ali, Michael Jordan, Mickey Mantle, etc. But I think that door may be as soon as next year. I saw no indication of anything he did on the bike this year that leads me to believe he'll win any PT, or major, RR next year. His Tour podium placing was very fortunate.

While Contador could crash out, so could Lance, so could anyone else. But you can't expect that to happen, can you?
 
Mar 12, 2009
2,521
0
0
Visit site
fatandfast said:
Most of views are revisionist history. Armstrong maybe an *** but he is out of the league of Contador, Frank&Andy,LL,and why Wiggins comes in anyplace nobody has a clue. Lance already won the tour 7 times and World's. Alberto and I guess everybody else can learn the lil'ditty, don't count your chickens before they are hatched. A broken femur or serious injury could send the tiny Spaniard to the bike shop. Everybody is so sure of themselves until they don't win anymore. Lance still makes the rules until he decides otherwise. He could snap his fingers and get more sponsorship money than all of Spain has in their budget. Go to an airport in the western world and have the two of them get off a plane, Alberto will be assumed to be there to carry Armstrong's luggage. Why bother with a neutral audience have the 2 get off in Seville or Madrid,Alberto would still be second rate. Except for the handful of us with shaved legs and cycling knowledge. Armstrong can speak to and be published in any magazine he wants not only cycling. Alberto's publisist can't get him a paid gig on Mexican TV. You guys have brought new meaning to "I am big in Japan".

wow, just wow.
Clueless post.
 
Jul 14, 2009
2,498
0
0
Visit site
Mellow Velo said:
Certainly true when it comes to following dope testing procedures. How long did it take him to get his Bio passport, again?


We waited for months. All these big name sponsors were rumoured and all we got, was The Shack. :eek:
Maybe if he hadn't shafted The Discovery Channel......


I think the term you are looking for is, "I am big in America", when speaking in pro cycling terms.

I think we can agree that you bring your own version of revisionist history, to the table.
Was there some major tours and championships held in secret? Lance already won,he has already amassed a huge cycling empire. Alberto and the others mentioned have not. That's far from a revision. He has a world wide presence that brought huge crowds everywhere he went on and off a bike. There are no Wiggins wristbands to my knowledge. His star power is given to him not only by the informed cycling fans but by the general public that follow his story and right or wrong , and only see him as a graying icon giving it one last chance. If he would not have come so close, I too think he would have faded further. Alberto is in a great position to go down as a fantastic champion, but he is simply not there yet. I don't see him falling off his bike and braking his neck, but I think he would be better served to not be asked questions about a self created conflict with Armstrong. Let it go and just race. Soon it will be Hinault and Lemond who are on the B-list because of their inability to separate inner team bus babble from off the bike personal attacks. Alberto is a great racer. Is he an International star...no. Like it or not Armstrong is a winner, you may not like how he got there but he is on top without ever having to win another bike race.
 
fatandfast said:
Most of views are revisionist history. Armstrong maybe an *** but he is out of the league of Contador, Frank&Andy,LL,and why Wiggins comes in anyplace nobody has a clue. Lance already won the tour 7 times and World's. Alberto and I guess everybody else can learn the lil'ditty, don't count your chickens before they are hatched. A broken femur or serious injury could send the tiny Spaniard to the bike shop. Everybody is so sure of themselves until they don't win anymore. Lance still makes the rules until he decides otherwise. He could snap his fingers and get more sponsorship money than all of Spain has in their budget. Go to an airport in the western world and have the two of them get off a plane, Alberto will be assumed to be there to carry Armstrong's luggage. Why bother with a neutral audience have the 2 get off in Seville or Madrid,Alberto would still be second rate. Except for the handful of us with shaved legs and cycling knowledge. Armstrong can speak to and be published in any magazine he wants not only cycling. Alberto's publisist can't get him a paid gig on Mexican TV. You guys have brought new meaning to "I am big in Japan".

...and yet he still lost. All his pathetic twittering and underhanded mindgames got him 3rd place, and that 3rd place was at the expense of an obviously superior overall rider in Kloden. An azz is still an azz regardless of how popular or should I say well known it/he may be. Popularity doesn't win races. Certainly being an azz doesn't either.
 
Mar 12, 2009
2,521
0
0
Visit site
Angliru said:
...and yet he still lost. All his pathetic twittering and underhanded mindgames got him 3rd place, and that 3rd place was at the expense of an obviously superior overall rider in Kloden. An azz is still an azz regardless of how popular or should I say well known it/he may be. Popularity doesn't win races. Certainly being an azz doesn't either.

+1

:D:D:D

The LA fans have a hard time accepting this.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

TRENDING THREADS