108th Liège-Bastogne-Liège: 24 April, 2022

[OlavEH]

Haha!

Rog crashed out of last years TDF.
Bernal wasn’t there.
G Thomas was diminished by his crash.

On the podium was a first time rider who did not even have the support of his team and a rider who can barely TT.

Does anyone question Pog’s win?

The haters will hate.

Haters? Jezus christ. What a pathetic argument. I've written in just about every post that his win was deserved. It's a part of the game to be present in form. But I just think the level of the rest of the riders yesterday was fairly mediocre. Do you honestly think the rest of the guys behind Remco would have followed Pog and Ala in peak shape if they attacked on RaF?

And neither Bernal or Thomas is close to the top level of Pog in Grand Tours. The same can't be said for Pog, Ala and WvA compared to Remco in hilly classics.

 

[Extinction]

Hehe, Pog at his best would have blasted Remco in the climb at RaF. Remcos effort yesterday was great, but we lacked probably the 4 or 5 hilly climbers with the highest potential in peak shape. The guys sprinting for 2nd are really not on the same level.

Don't be so sure, because first he would have had to be on Remco's wheel when he attacked, which is not a given at all. And even if he had gotten hitched, he would have had to work with Evenpoel and, in the form Remco displayed yesterday, I dare say Pog would not have been able to drop him on RaF. In that case, Remco is defeated in the sprint, however, again it is not given Pogacar would have been with him on the attack, because the Belgian has clearly upped his game, whereas Tadej was coming off a long campaign at an extremely high level.

 

[OlavEH]

What is undoubtedly clear, however, is that Eveneopoel's performance, nay feat, yesterday was that of a real champion (like Pogacar's victory last year). So let's just look forward to eventual heavyweight battles between them and WvA, MVdP, TP, PR etc. in the future.

Yeah, I also look forward to this. Because Teuns, Woods, Martinez, Vlasov, etc, are really not the heavyweighters in cycling. Those are the other guvs I've already mentioned. I want duels between the 5-6 big guns, not the 20 riders on the level below.

 

[Extinction]

Haters? Jezus christ. What a pathetic argument. I've written in just about every post that his win was deserved. It's a part of the game to be present in form. But I just think the level of the rest of the riders yesterday was fairly mediocre. Do you honestly think the rest of the guys behind Remco would have followed Pog and Ala in peak shape if they attacked on RaF?

And neither Bernal or Thomas is close to the top level of Pog in Grand Tours. The same can't be said for Pog, Ala and WvA compared to Remco in hilly classics.

Yesterday's Remco, yes. And, in any case, with yesterday's attack the best Pog and Ala would have first had to come to terms with him (read Nibali's comment I posted in Vincenzo's and Remco's thread) and, if successful, they aren't dropping him on RaF (not that Ala would anyway).

 

[Extinction]

Yeah, I also look forward to this. Because Teuns, Woods, Martinez, Vlasov, etc, are really not the heavyweighters in cycling. Those are the other guvs I've already mentioned. I want duels between the 5-6 big guns, not the 20 riders on the level below.

But this season thus far Teuns, Martinez and Vlasov have ridden at heavyweight status, which is all there is to go on. Each year is different and you are only as good as your last victory.

 

[OlavEH]

But this season thus far Teuns, Martinez and Vlasov have ridden at heavyweight status, which is all there is to go on. Each year is different and you are only as good as your last victory.

I can't really say that these guys have impressed me on the same level as Pog, Van der Poel, Van Aert og Ala when they are in top form. I don't buy for one second that none of these would got away and clear of the group 2 yesterday if they were present and in top form. I was much more impressed by Asgreen and Colbrelli last year and Van Baerle this year than the guys behind Remco yesterday.

 

[tobydawq]

Van Aert was clearly not in top shape.

How do you work that one out?

Logic says that a 78 kg rider would have some trouble following on the Roche-aux-Faucons. The fact that he was dropped doesn't confirm that he was clearly not in top shape the week after having gotten another monument podium.

 

[Big Doopie]

Yeah, I also look forward to this. Because Teuns, Woods, Martinez, Vlasov, etc, are really not the heavyweighters in cycling.

However each and everyone of them just beat Pog at FW.

And Pog couldn’t drop Woods at last years LBL.

The above demonstrates how ludicrous and biased your argument is.

 

[OlavEH]

However each and everyone of them just beat Pog at FW.

And Pog couldn’t drop Woods at last years LBL.

The above demonstrates how ludicrous and biased your argument is.

Yeah right, I'm the one who is biased here just because I don't think the competition yesterday wasn't as good as it could have been.

You need to take a freakin long look in the mirror before calling other ludicrous. I like Remco, but it doesn't mean that I need to be a completely snowblind fanboy.

 

[Escarabajo]

Yeah, I also look forward to this. Because Teuns, Woods, Martinez, Vlasov, etc, are really not the heavyweighters in cycling. Those are the other guvs I've already mentioned. I want duels between the 5-6 big guns, not the 20 riders on the level below.

At some point some riders become heavy weight and some become light weight. It happens in life so many times.
Should we put an asterisk in every race that Pogi doesn't race? imagine that he had not ridden La Fleche Wallonne. He would have won it sitting on the sofa. There are so many variables in cycling that we never really know what is going on.

 

[OlavEH]

At some point some riders become heavy weight and some become light weight. It happens in life so many times.
Should we put an asterisk in every race that Pogi doesn't race? imagine that he had not ridden La Fleche Wallonne. He would have won it sitting on the sofa. There are so many variables in cycling that we never really know what is going on.

Pog, Ala, Roglic and a Van Aert probably not in top form. No way that Teuns, Woods, Higuita and Powless are on the same level as these guys.

 

[Big Doopie]

Yeah right, I'm the one who is biased here just because I don't think the competition yesterday wasn't as good as it could have been.

You need to take a freakin long look in the mirror before calling other ludicrous. I like Remco, but it doesn't mean that I need to be a completely snowblind fanboy.

If u knew about my posts you would realize I am anything but…

If Pog, WvA, VdP, Ala, or Rog had done anything like Remco’s ride, never would anyone question the validity. (And actually only Pog could have done such a ride).

The double standard is all I am pointing to.

The hate is strong in you.

 

[OlavEH]

If u knew about my posts you would realize I am anything but…

If Pog, WvA, VdP, Ala, or Rog had done anything like Remco’s ride, never would anyone question the validity. (And actually only Pog could have done such a ride).

The double standard is all I am pointing to.

The hate is strong in you.

What hate? Who do I hate? These kind of straw man arguments are down right pathetic.

And it's not Remcos effort I've questioned. In the first post you quoted I said that his effort was great and that I'm glad he won.

 

[Extinction]

I can't really say that these guys have impressed me on the same level as Pog, Van der Poel, Van Aert og Ala when they are in top form. I don't buy for one second that none of these would got away and clear of the group 2 yesterday if they were present and in top form. I was much more impressed by Asgreen and Colbrelli last year and Van Baerle this year than the guys behind Remco yesterday.

I think you are discrediting his accomplishment. WvA said he was "by far the strongest" yesterday, which provides some indication that even in top form Wout would have been pressed to go with him yesterday. I say as well for the others too. What we saw was the move of a top Pog, Rog, WvA, MvDP, Ala, there is just no denying it. He showed he is a Big in the hardest Monument climbing wise, now he can focus on uping his game on the big cols. Each rider develops differently and he had a terrible injury that halted his growth. I reserve some skepticism for his GC pontential, but there is no reason to think that his form yesterday was not as good or even better than the other Bigs on that type of course.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

If u knew about my posts you would realize I am anything but…

If Pog, WvA, VdP, Ala, or Rog had done anything like Remco’s ride, never would anyone question the validity. (And actually only Pog could have done such a ride).

The double standard is all I am pointing to.

The hate is strong in you.

I'm feeling this win. should almost be marked by an asterisk as it doesn't seem to count for much on this forum because Pog & Rog weren't there, Captain Belgium had Covid, there was a big crash, the chasers handed it to him blah, blah, blah.

Anyway I'm also feeling a bit sad that we're now going into the mountain goat part of the season and it's a long time til there's a decent one day race again.

 

[Big Doopie]

I think you are discrediting his accomplishment. WvA said he was "by far the strongest" yesterday, which provides some indication that even in top form Wout would have been pressed to go with him yesterday. I say as well for the others too. What we saw was the move of a top Pog, Rog, WvA, MvDP, Ala, there is just no denying it. He showed he is a Big in the hardest Monument climbing wise, now he can focus on uping his game on the big cols. Each rider develops differently and he had a terrible injury that halted his growth. I reserve some skepticism for his GC pontential, but there is no reason to think that his form yesterday was not as good or even better than the other Bigs on that type of course.

Perfect reasoning.

And I reserve the same skepticism.

But damn what an exciting time to be a cycling fan with all these top attacking riders! Not bad to be able to add one more to the Bigs.

 

[OlavEH]

I think you are discrediting his accomplishment. WvA said he was "by far the strongest" yesterday, which provides some indication that even in top form Wout would have been pressed to go with him yesterday. I say as well for the others too. What we saw was the move of a top Pog, Rog, WvA, MvDP, Ala, there is just no denying it.

Or it can be read as "I'm glad there was a rider like Remco to give us a top performance when Pog, Van Aert or Ala couldn't". People really needs to stop over interpreting other people's posts like some do right now. And adding meaning that wasn't there. It's really a sorry form of debate.

 

[Extinction]

Or it can be read as "I'm glad there was a rider like Remco to give us a top performance when Pog, Van Aert or Ala couldn't". People really needs to stop over interpreting other people's posts like some do right now. And adding meaning that wasn't there. It's really a sorry form of debate.

Oh that's rich. Look you are the one who was diminishing Remco's performance based on hypothetical "yea, but, so and so wasn't there or others were lacking in some way..." You insinuate nothing exceptional from him, then go on to criticize any that argue to the contrary and then call them out on their supposed "sorry form of debate." Spurious argumentation doesn't even do your accusation justice, lame comes closer to it..

 

[OlavEH]

Oh that's rich. Look you are the one who was diminishing Remco's performance based on hypothetical "yea, but, so and so wasn't there or others were lacking in some way..." So you insinuate

Jeez, you're now doing just what I pointed out; over interpreting and adding meaning that isn't here.

That the guys behind Remco doesn't have the same top level as the ones missing, doesn't mean that Remcos effort wasn't great. It's a logical fallacy.

then go on to criticize any that argue to the contrary and then call them out on their supposed "sorry form of debate."

So arguments like "LOL" and "haters gonna hate" is a good form of debate? Who do I really hate here? Again; people are adding meaning that isn't there. I think I know a little better than you and the other here what was the actual meaning behind my phrasing.

 

[Big Doopie]

Bernard Hinault won 4 of his 5 TDFs against riders well past their prime (leftovers from Merckx's generation). His 5th TDF he won because the team manager tricked/lied to the one rider who could beat him.

I guess we have to question whether Hinault was a "Big"...

 

[Kaptain Kool]

My main problem with Evenepoel yesterday is... if he really was the strongest, why didn't he have the courage to stay in the group and fight it out for the win?

 

[Big Doopie]

Jeez, you're now doing just what I pointed out; over interpreting and adding meaning that isn't here.

That the guys behind Remco doesn't have the same top level as the ones missing, doesn't mean that Remcos effort wasn't great. It's a logical fallacy.


So arguments like "LOL" and "haters gonna hate" is a good form of debate? Who do I really hate here? Again; people are adding meaning that isn't there. I think I know a little better than you and the other here what was the actual meaning behind my phrasing.

i think what you may be missing is the history in the forum of devaluing every success Remco has had.

every time he does well it is because no one tried, no one chased, it was a preparation race for everyone but him, riders were missing, etc... etc... it never stops.

other riders do not get this treatment. it is the double standard that I believe we are pointing out.

at least @Ilmaestro99 had the ability to recognize what we all watched yesterday and give credit where credit is due.

and @Extinction and I both have questions about Remco's GT future, we are not just pure fanboys unless it is fanboys of exciting racing.

 

[Red Rick]

My main problem with Evenepoel yesterday is... if he really was the strongest, why didn't he have the courage to stay in the group and fight it out for the win?

Ah yes the cowardly 30km solo Im writing that down.

Plz dont use this against Nibali

 

[OlavEH]

i think what you may be missing is the history in the forum of devaluing every success Remco has had.

every time he does well it is because no one tried, no one chased, it was a preparation race for everyone but him, riders were missing, etc... etc... it never stops.

other riders do not get this treatment. it is the double standard that I believe we are pointing out.

at least @lmaestro had the ability to recognize what we all watched yesterday and give credit where credit is due.

I don't think I've written more than a handful of posts on Remco in this forum before. So I've never been a part of that.

And as I wrote above; that I think the competition was not the best, don't mean that Remcoes effort wasn't great. You could compare it to a 100m in Athletics. A guy can run 9,70 ahead number 2 and 3 at 10.00 and 10.05. That doesn't mean that his performance was worse than if number 2 and 3 having 9.80 and 9.85.

 

[SHAD0W93]

My main problem with Evenepoel yesterday is... if he really was the strongest, why didn't he have the courage to stay in the group and fight it out for the win?

He tried doing that but no one was strong enough to stay on his wheel