2011 Criterium du Dauphine - Stage 1: Albertville - Saint-Pierre-de-Chartreuse 144 km

[uphillstruggle]

It was Thomas not Wiggins who was up there.

At first I thought you were moving to a more subtle baiting technique.

 

[Parrulo]

van den Broek is in trouble. He peaks way to early. Tour is more or less already finished for him.
Hagen
If he can keep this form he'll give Gilbert a run for his money in the first Tour week.

already preparing the martin doesn't want to peak to soon speech i see

 

[meandmygitane]

Indeed. Yet he was told by Sky to increase his upper-body strength in the offseason in order to improve his sprint, which definitely is a huge disadvantage for climbing (yes, this annoys me a lot!). As a sprinter he will never be anything else than just another guy to get constantly beaten by Cavendish.

Give me some sources on this please.

And oh, what races do you think he should target? SKY is probably very anxious to hear from a norwegian fanboy about it, so that they can get some ROI..

 

[El Pistolero]

van den Broek is in trouble. He peaks way to early. Tour is more or less already finished for him.
Hagen
If he can keep this form he'll give Gilbert a run for his money in the first Tour week.

I'd be more worried about Martin if I were you

I don't get where this Martin can do a top 10 in a GT comes from. This kid has never ever impressed me when things go uphill. Has a terrible track record at hilly classics amongst other things.

And yes, there's risk that VDB2 peaked too early, but way too soon to tell.

 

[theyoungest]

I'm sorry to break it to you Dutchies, but Gesink seems like a rider that won't win much in his career. Sure he is consistent, but consistency itself doesn't win many prizes. In my eyes he lacks the explosiveness a Contador, Schleck has. He's pretty bland and dull rider. That wouldn't be much of a problem if he could time trial or be explosive on the hills, but in almost every department he lacks....something. And the fact there's enough talent that is just as good or even better than Gesink, will make sure that Gesink's resumé will be very empty at the end of his career.

Fine, you're not a fan, but there's enough talent that's at least as good as Gesink? I'd like to see it.

 

[Bavarianrider]

I'd be more worried about Martin if I were you

I don't get where this Martin can do a top 10 in a GT comes from. This kid has never ever impressed me when things go uphill. Has a terrible track record at hilly classics amongst other things.

And yes, there's risk that VDB2 peaked too early, but way too soon to tell.

If he doesn't show up in the TT and in the weekend, you would be right. But don't worry, Wednesday and the weekend will calrify a lot.

 

[maltiv]

Which explains his glorious results in Milan-San Remo this far
But I really think the "myth" was that he don't do well in really, long one-day races, to which I agree. It's the only one I seen on Cyclingnews forum in recent years.

That he got two podiums (one was a win obv.) from a breakaway group and a reduced bunch I think has to do that he is a sprinter that can climb a bit, but he got a second place on a 211km stage as well. And two third placings in le Tour when it was 150 and 180's of km's.

I agree that he don't necessarily suffer from 240km but when the distance gets longer and the racing harder, I think he struggles still.

2009 he was working for Cavendish. 2010 he got stomach cramps. 2011 he handled the distance but didn't have the form after just coming back from achilles injury (had to drop out of T-A). Not saying you're not right, though. But he showed very encouraging signs in RVV, where the distance didn't seem to bother him too much.

As mentioned earlier, he can't eat energy gels, bars or drinks, so that could explain his problem with long races.

 

[Gloin22]

If Hagen got that form or better at Tour and got some decent results in first week. I can see him being threat for Points Jersey to Cavendish. Win the jersey like husvod did.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Which explains his glorious results in Milan-San Remo this far
But I really think the "myth" was that he don't do well in really, long one-day races, to which I agree. It's the only one I seen on Cyclingnews forum in recent years.

That he got two podiums (one was a win obv.) from a breakaway group and a reduced bunch I think has to do that he is a sprinter that can climb a bit, but he got a second place on a 211km stage as well. And two third placings in le Tour when it was 150 and 180's of km's.

I agree that he don't necessarily suffer from 240km but when the distance gets longer and the racing harder, I think he struggles still.

MSR - he was up there fine then got the first twinges of the tendonitus which ruined his spring - quite an unfair and irrelevant criticism frankly.

You're welcome to persist in saying he struggles with distance, but given you accept he has performed very well on longer stages, it really is a strange guess to say he actually struggles on longer stages.

Yes, he hasn't won a monument classic yet, but given he's 24 and has had 2 years of wiped out springs, it would be incredible if he had.

If someone could give me examples of long stages where he bonked and was expected to do well, fine, but at the moment I just see people making a lazy standardised criticism aimed at lots of young riders, but particularly ill aimed in this case.

Your examples of shorter stages are entirely irrelevant - no one is claiming he needs long stages to be able to perform, I am merely debunking the claim that he can not perform on long stages. The 2009 Giro makes that case perfectly clearly for anyone not trying to dig in to a position taken in haste.

 

[Anonymous]

closing stages video now up
http://www.teamskyfans.com/Dauphine.html

 

[maltiv]

Give me some sources on this please

It's from an interview with his couch from some Norwegian newspaper, think it was Bergens Tidende. Can't find any links though.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

If Hagen got that form or better at Tour and got some decent results in first week. I can see him being threat for Points Jersey to Cavendish. Win the jersey like husvod did.

He'll have to get Cavendish disqualified more than once though.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Oh, and to fully complete my defence of Eddy (L), I will point out his stage win was not a sprint, but an explosive breakaway with 500m to go - watch the video, incredibly impressive.

He may not eat energy gels, but clearly he can eat on the bike, it's not possible to ride at a decent level past 2.5 hours without topping up carbs, so whilst it may explain the source of the folk wisdom on these forums, I think that's as far as it goes.

 

[Nastyy]

7. PINOT Thibaut 157 FDJ 3h 36' 55" + 00' 13"

He just turned 21 a week ago. Future superstar in the making.

 

[El Pistolero]

If he doesn't show up in the TT and in the weekend, you would be right. But don't worry, Wednesday and the weekend will calrify a lot.

In the TT he will do good. In fact I know Martin will have a good Tour, but just not in the mountains. I just don't see it. Wouldn't mind to be proven wrong, but he is what he is. Very good at time trials.

 

[Gloin22]

He'll have to get Cavendish disqualified more than once though.

Half way intermediate point gives 25 points. Same as getting 1st in sprint. If he will constantly making top 5 in sprints and podiums on hillier stages they ought to be close in rankings. Than escape on mountain stages and winning int. ponts is same as finishing 1st. That way he stand a chance.

 

[El Pistolero]

7. PINOT Thibaut 157 FDJ 3h 36' 55" + 00' 13"

He just turned 21 a week ago. Future superstar in the making.

He's French.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

He's French.

So is Gadret

 

[meandmygitane]

Your examples of shorter stages are entirely irrelevant - no one is claiming he needs long stages to be able to perform, I am merely debunking the claim that he can not perform on long stages. The 2009 Giro makes that case perfectly clearly for anyone not trying to dig in to a position taken in haste.

(My highlighting)

You had a lot of good thing you said in this post, which I largely agree on, but I will only comment on this part, for sake of clarity.

Here is what you said earlier:

Eddy was raised on 8 hour training rides, and all his best results are from long stages - don't buy in to this utterly unevidenced myth that he likes things short.

(My highlight)

That's what I was arguing against. (That and that the myth was really about something else entirely, namely hard and long one-day races).

Either what you said first was inexact or misleading or it was wrong. Really, it all it needed was "some of his best results" instead of all.

 

[boomcie]

van den Broek is in trouble. He peaks way to early. Tour is more or less already finished for him.
Hagen
If he can keep this form he'll give Gilbert a run for his money in the first Tour week.

Bayerische Reiter...

The gibberisch you talk sometimes.

VDB was 4th last year in the Dauphiné and confirmed this at the Tour. If anything, I'd say his victory was reassuring.

EBH giving Gilbert a run for his money at this years TdF: no. It's Gilbert we're talking about.

it's actually surprising how little he has won. I mean, I didn't realize he had no professional win until earlier this year.

That's another way of looking at it. But let's keep in mind that this guy doesn't have any real weapons.

 

[El Pistolero]

So is Gadret

We'll just assume he's Flemish.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

(My highlighting)

You had a lot of good thing you said in this post, which I largely agree on, but I will only comment on this part, for sake of clarity.

Here is what you said earlier:
(My highlight)

That's what I was arguing against. (That and that the myth was really about something else entirely, namely hard and long one-day races).

Either what you said first was inexact or misleading or it was wrong. Really, it all it needed was "some of his best results" instead of all.

Fair enough, I appreciate the misunderstanding - I was being hyperbolic as I've had this discussion a few times on here! I do think his most impressive results have been on long stages, but I wouldn't claim he requires long stages in order to perform well. Hermineutically, I said what I meant, but I appreciate how it can be easily and honestly misinterpreted due to my tone.

Friends forever?

 

[Bavarianrider]

Bayerische Reiter...

The gibberisch you talk sometimes.

VDB was 4th last year in the Dauphiné and confirmed this at the Tour. If anything, I'd say his victory was reassuring.

EBH giving Gilbert a run for his money at this years TdF: no. It's Gilbert we're talking about.



That's another way of looking at it. But let's keep in mind that this guy doesn't have any real weapons.

Competition was crap at the Dauphine last year. Finishing 4th wasn't much of a deal. This year vdB just hit his peak to early. No way he cans tay on this level for the next 7 weeks.

 

[El Pistolero]

Competition wasn't crap at the Dauphiné last year. Why do people honestly believe that crap.

And VDB said he didn't have super legs today. He won't keep this level, he will improve.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

No panic at Rabobank appearently. They didn't expect Gesink to lose contact, but appearently Gesink is riding very relaxed and wants to be good at the Tour, not here.
Gesink himself said this was a bit too much too early