2012 Giro d'Italia, May 23rd, stage 17: Falzes → Cortina D'Ampezzo, 186 Kms

[Gloin22]

Small preview of tomorrow's stage by Micheal Barry :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u61EmqF14Q

 

[SafeBet]

he was suffering keeping the wheel of henao for christ's sake

That's true.
He has never looked in great form to me till now.

But yeah, hope to be proved wrong as well.

 

[Lexman]

the stages may be boring (haven't watched it, followed the ticker) at least the podiumgirls stay interesting

 

[Eshnar]

This is Cortina:

They might get some rain on Giau, but the stage should be mostly dry.
Things can change pretty quick up there though.

What's all this talk on forecasts.
If you guys wanna have a reliable weather forecast in the Dolomites, just roll a die
That's the method of the professionals.

 

[Descender]

What special do you expect from the descent and what can it provoke?

I completely agree with Eshnar.

We have had this discussion countless times before, I don't really feel like repeating myself.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

That's just stage 10 from the 2009 Giro, but not as long or as difficult.

This was the best Tour stage design in recent memory:

Shame that pretty much everything else about that route was absolutely dreadful.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

As much as i like Ivan basso i hope one or they attack him in anger.

 

[asdfgh101]

This was the best Tour stage design in recent memory:

Shame that pretty much everything else about that route was absolutely dreadful.

I have posted the same route previously. What is increasingly apparent to me is the folly of saving all of the most decisive stages until the end; it encourages negative defensive riding.

 

[burning]

This was the best Tour stage design in recent memory:

Shame that pretty much everything else about that route was absolutely dreadful.

At least contador made that stage a little bit exciting

 

[Parrulo]

well maybe it was just me hoping to see robobasso back

purito would never drop ivan of 2005-2006,it's still pretty awkward for me when that happens.and really he was suffering keeping the wheel of henao for christ's sake...i hope i will be proved wrong tomorrow,i don't like to see ivan weak

i have given up on robobasso's return if not for the crash in may he would return at the tour last year but i think it's too late now.

and i don't think he was suffering on henao's wheel. he just took about 50 meters to close the small gap henao got from his acceleration.

basso will hammer it all the way up the giau tomorrow and i doubt many will survive, if any

 

[Libertine Seguros]

At least contador made that stage a little bit exciting

The last 40km of that stage had more action than the rest of the Tour put together.

As for putting the tougher stages earlier in the race, this one from 2010 was decent:

A bit too much between Saisies and Madeleine, but Madeleine is the best of the overused climbs, and is hard enough on its own.

And remember back in 2006, when the Vuelta had good routes? This was the last stage of week 1:

 

[mb2612]

i have given up on robobasso's return if not for the crash in may he would return at the tour last year but i think it's too late now.

and i don't think he was suffering on henao's wheel. he just took about 50 meters to close the small gap henao got from his acceleration.

basso will hammer it all the way up the giau tomorrow and i doubt many will survive, if any

Robobasso 06 would be too strong, RoboBasso 10 would be awesome. Cracking Riders one by one up the final climb, leaving them shelled out, worthless on the side of the road.

Then he can decend gingerly, allowing them all to catch up, leaving them all with a glimer of hope.

Which he will crush on the weekend.

I hope anyway, given Liqui have done so much work, if Basso isn't strongest then they have ridden the stupidest GT ever.

 

[Pippo_San]

I still can't understand how Basso went from being a nice one day racer (remember his first years as a pro?) to the best MOFO GT CONTENDER EVER (that's RoboBasso 2005/2006 edition for you) to a completely anonymous climber that can *only* (not to mean he's scum, just compared to what he was) ride his own tempo up the climbs or else he can achieve almost nothing (does beating Duarte in a sprint counts? it's like turtle A drops turtle B...)

Call me naive or whatever, but I can't believe it's just a matter of clinic issues (or maybe I don't want because it would just be too sad).
Actually if we bring up the post-suspension argument, one would argue that Scarponi has become a better rider...

 

[Havetts]

At least contador made that stage a little bit exciting

Contador did nothing on that stage but completely kill Klöden and follow the Schlecks wheels..

(Sorry for possibly turning this into a Contador thing again but still...)

 

[profff]

basso in tv at processo alla tappa after pian dei resinelli stage looked very fresh with a relaxed face.
i think he is in good shape, he did not lost time in stages which normally do not fit his qualities (assisi, rocca di cambio) or in wheater condition and developping with situation he does not like, as in resinelli.

i think tomorrow he will put somebody out of the competition for maglia rosa, and then finish the work in pampeago e stelvio.

 

[plooton]

Small preview of tomorrow's stage by Micheal Barry :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u61EmqF14Q

Commenting on Giau descent to Cortina, Michael Barry mentioned that Cavendish was a great descender. Why he stressed this point at the moment. May we be looking forward something big from Cavendish right in the mountains?

 

[airstream]

LOL: Trolling again?
Forgotten Basso descending the Mortirolo in the wet, during the 2010 Giro?
Any idea how much time Arroyo took out of him that day?
Piepoli in 2006 was almost embarrasing.

As folk contenders not taking any chances, how on earth do you expect them to win the race: By throwing a dice, perhaps?

! Is their only hope to beat Basso tomorrow the rain lol? Being on Mortirolo top Liquigas did not already look up to Arroyo and, unlike him, they had something to lose.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

What the hell is trolling?

troll
One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

1b. Noun
A person who, on a message forum of some type, attacks and flames other members of the forum for any of a number of reasons such as rank, previous disagreements, sex, status, ect.
A troll usually flames threads without staying on topic, unlike a "Flamer" who flames a thread because he/she disagrees with the content of the thread.

1c. Noun
A member of an internet forum who continually harangues and harasses others. Someone with nothing worthwhile to add to a certain conversation, but rather continually threadjacks or changes the subject, as well as thinks every member of the forum is talking about them and only them. Trolls often go by multiple names to circumvent getting banned.


2a. Noun
Sometimes compared to the Japanese ‘Oni’, a troll is a supernatural creature of Scandinavian folklore, whose race was thought to have carried massive stones into the countryside (although actually the result of glaciers). Lives in hills, mountains, caves, or under bridges. They are stupid, large, brutish, hairy, long-nosed, and bug-eyed, and may also have multiple heads or horns. Trolls love to eat ...
more...

3.
One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.

What is an Internet Troll?

An Internet "troll" is a person who delights in sowing discord on the Internet. He (and it is usually he) tries to start arguments and upset people.

Trolls see Internet communications services as convenient venues for their bizarre game. For some reason, they don't "get" that they are hurting real people. To them, other Internet users are not quite human but are a kind of digital abstraction. As a result, they feel no sorrow whatsoever for the pain they inflict. Indeed, the greater the suffering they cause, the greater their 'achievement' (as they see it). At the moment, the relative anonymity of the net allows trolls to flourish.

Trolls are utterly impervious to criticism (constructive or otherwise). You cannot negotiate with them; you cannot cause them to feel shame or compassion; you cannot reason with them. They cannot be made to feel remorse. For some reason, trolls do not feel they are bound by the rules of courtesy or social responsibility.

Why does it Matter?

Some people -- particularly those who have been online for years -- are not upset by trolls and consider them an inevitable hazard of using the net. As the saying goes, "You can't have a picnic without ants."

It would be nice if everybody was so easy-going, but the sad fact is that trolls do discourage people. Established posters may leave a message board because of the arguments that trolls ignite, and lurkers (people who read but do not post) may decide that they do not want to expose themselves to abuse and thus never get involved.

Another problem is that the negative emotions stirred up by trolls leak over into other discussions. Normally affable people can become bitter after reading an angry interchange between a troll and his victims, and this can poison previously friendly interactions between long-time users.

Finally, trolls create a paranoid environment, such that a casual criticism by a new arrival can elicit a ferocious and inappropriate backlash.

The Internet is a wonderful resource which is breaking down barriers and stripping away prejudice. Trolls threaten our continued enjoyment of this beautiful forum for ideas.



When trolls are ignored they step up their attacks, desperately seeking the attention they crave. Their messages become more and more foul, and they post ever more of them. Alternatively, they may protest that their right to free speech is being curtailed -- more on this later.

The moderator of a message board may not be able to delete a troll's messages right away, but their job is made much harder if they also have to read numerous replies to trolls. They are also forced to decide whether or not to delete posts from well-meaning folks which have the unintended effect of encouraging the troll.

Some webmasters have to endure conscientious users telling them that they are "acting like dictators" and should never delete a single message. These people may be misinformed: they may have arrived at their opinion about a troll based on the messages they see, never realizing that the webmaster has already deleted his most horrific material. Please remember that a troll does have an alternative if he has something of value to say: there are services on the net that provide messaging systems free of charge. So the troll can set up his own message board, where he can make his own decisions about the kind of content he will tolerate.

Just how much can we expect of a webmaster when it comes to preserving the principles of free speech? Some trolls find sport in determining what the breaking point is for a particular message board operator. They might post a dozen messages, each of which contains 400 lines of the letter "J". That is a form of expression, to be sure, but would you consider it your duty to play host to such a person?

Perhaps the most difficult challenge for a webmaster is deciding whether to take steps against a troll that a few people find entertaining. Some trolls do have a creative spark and have chosen to squander it on being disruptive. There is a certain perverse pleasure in watching some of them. Ultimately, though, the webmaster has to decide if the troll actually cares about putting on a good show for the regular participants, or is simply playing to an audience of one -- himself.

What about Free Speech?

When trolls find that their efforts are being successfully resisted, they often complain that their right to free speech is being infringed. Let us examine that claim.

While most people on the Internet are ardent defenders of free speech, it is not an absolute right; there are practical limitations. For example, you may not scream out "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, and you may not make jokes about bombs while waiting to board an airplane. We accept these limitations because we recognize that they serve a greater good.

Another useful example is the control of the radio frequency spectrum. You might wish to set up a powerful radio station to broadcast your ideas, but you cannot do so without applying for a license. Again, this is a practical limitation: if everybody broadcasted without restriction, the repercussions would be annoying at best and life-threatening at worst.

The radio example is helpful for another reason: with countless people having a legitimate need to use radio communications, it is important to ensure that nobody is 'monopolizing the channel'. There are only so many clear channels available in each frequency band and these must be shared.

When a troll attacks a message board, he generally posts a lot of messages. Even if his messages are not particularly inflammatory, they can be so numerous that they drown out the regular conversations (this is known as 'flooding'). Needless to say, no one person's opinions can be allowed to monopolize a channel.

The ultimate response to the 'free speech' argument is this: while we may have the right to say more or less whatever we want, we do not have the right to say it wherever we want. You may feel strongly about the fact that your neighbor has not mowed his lawn for two months, but you do not have the right to berate him in his own living room. Similarly, if a webmaster tells a troll that he is not welcome, the troll has no "right" to remain. This is particularly true on the numerous free communications services offered on the net. (On pay systems, the troll might be justified in asking for a refund.)

 

[Lanark]

This has got to be a joke:

Astana DS Alexandr Shefer gave us the inside track on the route from Falzes to Cortina d’Ampezzo: “Tomorrow’s stage will be very hard work, with the uphill start and then the four GPMs, it is all up and down with hardly any flat road. Lastly there is the climb to the Giau Pass, which starts at a gradient of 14%, followed by the nose-dive down to Cortina, which is not an impossible descent but long and intense all the same.

“It is unlikely that we will see any attacks by the leading riders, partly because there are nearly 20 km between the final GPM and the finish and partly because everyone is waiting for the three stages between Friday and Sunday.”

You couldn't design a stage more suited to attacks by the leading riders. What a disgrace it would be if this prediction turned out true.

 

[manafana]

tommorow some will crack but likely group comes to finish in my view.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

See, Kreuziger leads Astana and immediately it turns into **** instead of the heroics we saw earlier this season.

I hope some GC men put their foot down so poor Kreuzi has to come out of his shell and lose the Giro finally

 

[Libertine Seguros]

tommorow some will crack but likely group comes to finish in my view.

If that's the case, this race is well and truly dead.

No attacking before the last 5km of mountains, and no attacking allowed if it isn't an MTF.

This stage is hard enough that a selection should be able to be forced by attrition alone. This is a stage where Basso's pace should be able to do the damage we've been waiting for.

I really, desperately want Beñat Intxausti to win, but he's up in 7th on the GC, so he's not likely to be allowed to escape, and in all likelihood is not good enough to beat the heads of state on tomorrow's stage. It would mean so much though.

 

[taiwan]

not that cold, cloudy, 40% chance of rain.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I have been grumpy because of the **** il giro for awhile now, i dont know what i will do if its the same ol *** again today. In the immortal or mortal words of ACF " i will cry myself to sleep". ACF have not been here for awhile now, must be stocking up for evens at dauphine and tdf

 

[hrotha]

Yeah, I seriously need tomorrow's stage to be epic, because on paper it's one of the best stage designs I've ever seen, and if it turns out to be boring all hope will be lost.