2012 Tour de France: Stage 16: Pau → Bagnères-de-Luchon, 197 km

[whittashau]

This is the descent http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7xnmalQqSk

That's a pretty tame descent. So apparently every descent in this race which was technical are so far from the finish they're not worth attacking on. As is every decent climb. How is this even possible?

 

[auscyclefan94]

Epic waste of Tourmalet. (And Aubisque, for that matter)

I do somewhat agree, but they do use these climbs quite regularly and they usually feature in the finale of a stage so a year off doesn't hurt.

Quick prediction:

That is depressing but probably true.

they did more or less exactly the same stage in 1998:

01. Rodolfo Massi (Ita) Casino 5.49.40 (33.717)
02. Marco Pantani (Ita) Mercatone Uno 0.36
03. Michael Boogerd (Ned) Rabobank 0.59
04. Bobby Julich (USA) Cofidis 0.59
05. Giuseppe Di Grande (Ita) Mapei 0.59
06. Jose Maria Jimenez (Spa) Banesto 0.59
07. Fernando Escartin (Spa) Kelme 0.59
08. Jan Ullrich (Ger) Telekom 0.59
09. Jean-Cyril Robin (Fra) US Postal 0.59
10. Leonardo Piepoli (Ita) Saeco 0.59
[...]
96. George Hincapie (USA) US Postal 26.07
[...]
103. Jens Voigt (Ger) GAN 26.07

Not many big gaps, I expect something similar sadly.

 

[For The World]

My hit predictions for the stage, based on previous results are:

1. LuLu "The Jaw of Gondor" Sanchez
2. Thomas "The Tongue" Voeckler
3. Sandy "Damnit Sanchez beat me!" Casar
4. Thibault "I'm 22 too!" Pinot
5. Vincenzo "I attacked on the descent" Nibali
6. Pierre "Europcar is GOOD!" Rolland
7. Chris "I'm better than Wiggins" Froome
8. Mark "The Manx Missile" Cavendish
9. Michael "Best form of my LIFE!" Rogers
10. Richie "Bubba" Porte

This may or may not be a joke, but some levity is required here.

 

[hoolaparara]

Sagan to win the stage in a sprint over Greipel.

 

[diorgen]

Logic? If you don't like, don't watch. And by extension, don't ruin other people's enjoyment by coming online and whining about it.

Ironic that youre ruining my enjoyment of this thread by whining about peoples posts

 

[Avoriaz]

I think people are quick to judge. It isn't the course that makes it dull, but the riders and the way of racing. And I don't think it has been dull.

This stage has been used many times, and the was the first to introduce me to the Tour when Robert Millar broke away with Patrocino Jiminez in 1983 and won his first stage.

It was also the first and only time that Sean Kelly wore the yellow jersey.

Pascal Simon took yellow after the stage, but it ultimately set Fignon up for his first victory.

I'm really looking forward to this stage: in part through nostalgia, in part through it being in the high mountains, and in part (unlike many others here) because I don't yet know what will happen.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Thiss atge has been done quiet a few times on the excact same route.
Interesting to see how the pace changed over the years.

1998: Massii in 5.49.20
1983: Millar in 6.23.27.
Video
1980: Raymond Martin in 6.27.32.
1949: Jean Robic in 7.06.22


Results 1998

1. Rodolfo Massi (Ita) Casino 5.49.40 (33.717)
2. Marco Pantani (Ita) Mercatone Uno 0.36
3. Michael Boogerd (Ned) Rabobank 0.59
4. Bobby Julich (USA) Cofidis
5. Giuseppe Di Grande (Ita) Mapei
6. Jose Maria Jimenez (Spa) Banesto
7. Fernando Escartin (Spa) Kelme
8. Jan Ullrich (Ger) Telekom
9. Jean-Cyril Robin (Fra) US Postal
10. Leonardo Piepoli (Ita) Saeco
11. Luc Leblanc (Fra) Polti
12. Bjarne Riis (Den) Telekom 0.59
13. Daniele Nardello (Ita) Mapei 1.58
14. Kevin Livingston (USA) Cofidis
15. Marcos Serrano (Spa) Kelme
16. Dariusz Baranowski (Pol) US Postal
17. Roland Meier (Swi) Cofidis
18. Bo Hamburger (Den) Casino
19. Angel Casero (Spa) Vitalicio Seguros
20. Abraham Olano (Spa) Banesto
21. Evgeni Berzin (Rus) La Francaise des Jeux
22. Manuel Beltran (Spa) Banesto 1.58
23. Laurent Jalabert (Fra) ONCE 2.13
24. Stephane Heulot (Fra) La Francaise des Jeux 2.13
25. Laurent Madouas (Fra) Lotto 2.28
26. Peter Farazijn (Bel) Lotto
27. Kurt Van de Wouwer (Bel) Lotto
28. Cedric Vasseur (Fra) GAN
29. Beat Zberg (Swi) Rabobank
30. Filippo Simeoni (Ita) Asics
31. Christophe Rinero (Fra) Cofidis
32. Philippe Bordenave (Fra) Big Mat-Auber 93 2.28
33. Cesar Solaun (Spa) Banesto 2.36
34. Marcelino Garcia (Spa) ONCE 2.45
35. Geert Verheyen (Bel) Lotto 3.18
36. Santiago Blanco (Spa) Vitalicio Seguros
37. Luis Perez Rodriguez (Spa) ONCE 3.39
38. Jorg Jaksche (Ger) Polti
39. Alberto Elli (Ita) Casino
40. Axel Merckx (Bel) Polti 4.41
41. Vicent Garcia-Acosta (Spa) Banesto 6.08
42. Georg Totschnig (Aut) Telekom
43. Andrei Teteriuk (Kaz) Lotto 6.41
44. Pascal Chanteur (Fra) Casino 7.13
45. Santos Gonzalez (Spa) Kelme 8.06
46. Udo Bolts (Ger) Telekom
47. Simone Borgheresi (Ita) Mercatone Uno
48. Francisco Cabello (Spa) Kelme 10.57
49. Thierry Gouvenou (Fra) Big Mat-Auber 93 12.27

 

[Silhouette]

I hope Wiggins and either Porte or Rogers have an off day.

 

[Eshnar]

You sound like a little-town Sunday preacher apprentice. I can really picture your voice.

Actually I just repeated the tone of the post I was answering to... because it did sound like that.
Anyway I'm sorry you guys find depressing that people make their own arguments instead of mindlessly nodding to ASO just like believers do to your Sunday preacher.
If that's so unbearable, you should consider stop reading the thread. I won't stop watching cycling only because ASO keep on delivering crappy routes. As I said, there will be attacks from Peyresourde on. It'll be epic
But let me make you one thing clear: Forums are for people to discuss and argue. If the only argument you can bring to a discussion is "if you don't like it, don't watch it", you're not very useful.
I answered to you but of course my post is aimed to a lot of guys.

 

[step23]

Froom to attack like AC in 2009 and get the yellow

 

[virandociclista]

Hi

I did this 'stage' in the letape act2. It was not só hard like the stage from albertville to lá toussuire. Always there is a long easy part before the climbs... Só if someone got dropped it Will be easy to regroup..

I would not expect something of racing in this stage..

 

[DominicDecoco]

If the only argument you can bring to a discussion is "if you don't like it, don't watch it", you're not very useful.
I answered to you but of course my post is aimed to a lot of guys.

Just like this useful post?

Epic waste of Tourmalet. (And Aubisque, for that matter)

I'm yet to see a positive post about cycling from you, so 'stop watching' makes perfectly sense.

 

[Eshnar]

If the only argument you can bring to a discussion is "if you don't like it, don't watch it", you're not very useful.
QUOTE]

Just like this useful post?

__________________

I did explain that after the first post

 

[Winterfold]

Logic? If you don't like, don't watch. And by extension, don't ruin other people's enjoyment by coming online and whining about it.

+1000000000000000000000000000000

We REALLY need a boring posters, er sorry, velominati sub-forum. They seem to be complaining about every race from MSR to Lombardy.

will10 - not sure I'd put Froome on the front for a descent, might liven things up a bit though

EDIT Also how do you 'soft pedal' the Tourmalet? WTF?!

 

[Eshnar]

I'm yet to see a positive post about cycling from you, so 'stop watching' makes perfectly sense.

Maybe you picked the wrong guy?

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

This stage remind me bit of Route de Sud one - where havoc can be caused.

That was a much better course. This one has long false flat sections in between the climbs.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Sagan for the win!

 

[rainman]

Someone will go away De Gendt-style over the top of the Tourmalet. I'm hoping a Brajkovic or Rolland will go, given a long leash from sky, and ride their way into the top 5. Similarly, while everyone is looking to Nibali for the descent finish, JVDB has also been very aggressive, and could be a powerful instigator on the penultimate or final climb. Lets hope Cadel has the legs like he did in the final week of last years tour, and not the ones from a week ago.

This is going to be a big one. Shame on those who not only choose pessimism, but then wave it in the face of those who genuinely want to enjoy the spectacle. And it is a choice...

+1. If Nibali and Evans have the legs this is their chance to devastate the GC.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Quick prediction:

Oh please let Froome do the descending! Nibali will be in yellow for sure then! Despite being their best climber, Froome seems to lack the ability to steer properly!

Actually I didn't pay much attention to his descending, but his lines in the TT were absolutely horrible, so I'm hoping his lines in the descennd are horrible to, so Nibali will take a handful of minutes on the descend, to have at least some excitement GC wise.

 

[JibberJim]

Actually I didn't pay much attention to his descending, but his lines in the TT were absolutely horrible, so I'm hoping his lines in the descennd are horrible to, so Nibali will take a handful of minutes on the descend, to have at least some excitement GC wise.

Wiggins, has always been in front of Froome on any descent so either Froome is poor and falls back, or Wiggins doesn't want to be behind him! So he doesn't look the greatest.

 

[Kwibus]

The weather may factor. Supposed to be very hot on Wednesday.
90F in the valleys.

Normally I don't hope for rain in the mountains, because it's simply quite dangerous. Allthough this Tour could really use it since rain on this stage would mean trouble for Wiggins and that makes it interesting for the GC.

Hot weather could cause some problems as well though

 

[masking_agent]

will Wiggo suffer a bad day and be put into desperate trouble forcing SKY to hand the reigns over to Froome ?

will the shark finally be able to make up some time ?

only time will tell..

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Sure, the boards are a free forum to discuss cycling. But, there's an assumption that this forum and others serve to add to the community we have; new information is shared, ideas are developed and redeveloped, whatever.

Even if we boil down two camps into blind optimists and blind pessimists (Binaries are never accurate, and I know enough to know that most are not 'blind', but well informed and judicious optimists or pessimists) its still very easy to choose who can add more to the community.

I've been critical of posts and attitudes that are destructive. It is as simple as 'don't read the posts' in some cases, but not in others. I haven't opened the tour de bore thread because I don't see any value for my own participation as a fan. Those comments have merit, for sure. The discussion needs to be be had, yes. I'm just not interested, and it is easy to avoid. But, a stage thread intended to discuss a stage is a different story.

I'm interested in the perspectives, insights, and analysis that come out of these threads. They change the way I watch the stage. But sarcastic comments, and negative comments detract from that (not to say that critical comments don't belong). For me, its about what has additive value to this community.

Thats the idealist answer. These are the internets. But, its obviously frustrating when a negative meme (lack of a better word) takes away from any experience.

Shame on those who not only choose blind optimism, but fail to provide any logical justification, and uselessly attack those who chose to think with their own minds instead of having faith that things are gonna be good because... ehm... because we want them to be good.

I assumed that the rest of my post was that logical justification. I see potential in the stage, and it was clearly stated why. Also, there's a difference between being critical and being destructive. Some posters demonstrate that line better than others

 

[Poursuivant]

What will Froome do when Nibali attacks 3k from summit of final climb?

 

[search]

Thiss atge has been done quiet a few times on the excact same route.
Interesting to see how the pace changed over the years.

1998: Massi in 5.49.20

this must also have been the last race Rodolfo Massi ever won, so I think this is a kind of clinic related subject...