2012 Tour de France: Stage 6: Épernay → Metz (207.5km)

[Frosty]

20-years ago there would have never been such talk. The Tour de France has always had opening weeks like this. It is a characteristic of this Grand Tour.

This is the nature of the game. Cycling, oddly like golf, is very course effected. The wide-to-narrow road effect of racing in France is what it is. Why the want to make one just like another?

We have three distinct GTs. It should be so.

As far as abandons, that has changed. Gesink has made good choice. It is an Olympic year as well with the road race just on week out from the end of the Tour.

Yes, i was thinking back to some Tours i can remember in the 90s when after watching the bunch do the sprint finish, the cameras would then pan back to 1km or 2km and show several different lines of riders coming in after a late crash. They used to blame the new road furniture back then. Robert Millar (Britain's highest finisher until 2009) only finished 2 out of 5 Tours between 1986 and 1990.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Cavendish won four stages in the 2008 Tour de France, his first coming in stage 5 from Cholet to Châteauroux. He won again on stage 8, stage 12 and stage 13, making him the first British rider to collect four stages in a single Tour. Overnight, at the age of just 22, he became the fourth most successful British professional in history.

He was 23. Born May 1985. You are are talking about Tour 2008.

 

[nickel999]

In Cavendish's equivalent year, he had less impressive sprint results to his name than Sagan has now. It was really not till the Giro he turned 23 during that Cavendish showed he was the fastest around.

I don't expect Sagan to be as fast a flat sprinter at 23 as Cavendish was at 23, in part because I don't think Sagan will be allowed to or will want to train exclusively for sprint speed. And in part because you can never know in advance how well someone will develop and Cavendish developed prodigiously well from 21 to 24.

I don't know Sagan's trainng background but Cav's velodrome track experience must lend a hand here.

 

[Bobby G]

Crashes are always happening. You expect a couple in the opening wee. This however is a farce. One crash has taken out half of a potential top 20. It's becoming too common in the tour.

Last year we bemoaned the lack of a prologue, suggesting this could've contributed to the number of crashes. This year perhaps the lack of an early mountain. I'm not suggesting Mont Ventoux in stage 2, but perhaps a stage like tomorrow's around stage 4 would at least decide who wouldn't be a GC contender this year and who wouldn't.

Something has to happen because this is beyond normal 'it's part of cycling' crashes.

 

[The Chicken]

Wasn't he 23 in 2008?

Damn Wikipedia!

 

[nickel999]

Crashes are always happening. You expect a couple in the opening wee. This however is a farce. One crash has taken out half of a potential top 20. It's becoming too common in the tour.

Last year we bemoaned the lack of a prologue, suggesting this could've contributed to the number of crashes. This year perhaps the lack of an early mountain. I'm not suggesting Mont Ventoux in stage 2, but perhaps a stage like tomorrow's around stage 4 would at least decide who wouldn't be a GC contender this year and who wouldn't.

Something has to happen because this is beyond normal 'it's part of cycling' crashes.

And all of this without a TTT this year !

 

[Ferminal]

Damn Wikipedia!

Wow that sucks

Go with CQ.

 

[DenisMenchov]

Is there a video of the crash. I only watched last couple of kms.

 

[roundabout]

In Cavendish's equivalent year, he had less impressive sprint results to his name than Sagan has now. It was really not till the Giro he turned 23 during that Cavendish showed he was the fastest around.

I don't expect Sagan to be as fast a flat sprinter at 23 as Cavendish was at 23, in part because I don't think Sagan will be allowed to or will want to train exclusively for sprint speed. And in part because you can never know in advance how well someone will develop and Cavendish developed prodigiously well from 21 to 24.

Exactly. Your last sentence says it all. Sagan seemed like a top rider from the moment he turned pro going head to head with Evans and Valverde in the TdU. Cavendish on the other hand had more development potential.

 

[Frosty]

And all of this without a TTT this year !

Seen plenty of crashes in those over the years too

 

[Frosty]

Is there a video of the crash. I only watched last couple of kms.

Havent seen any pictures of the crash itself, only the aftermath

 

[Fetisoff]

Is there a video of the crash. I only watched last couple of kms.

I don't think the crash itself was ever shown on the live broadcast, only the aftermath, so I doubt there would be any videos of it.

I guess we'll have to go by what riders themselves say to try and figure out what caused it

 

[DenisMenchov]

I don't think the crash itself was ever shown on the live broadcast, only the aftermath, so I doubt there would be any videos of it.

I guess we'll have to go by what riders themselves say to try and figure out what caused it

Oh, thanks.

 

[therhodeo]

There was a helicopter shot of it and it looked like something happened on the left edge of the road but I couldn't tell what was going on from that view.

 

[Eshnar]

I dunno what Zanatta said about Sagan, but Sagan himself said after the race that tomorrow he'll get dropped and have a little rest.

 

[saosinfangirl]

Well, Greipel had a dislocated shoulder and a bleeding knee after the first crash and he crashed again with 62km to go.

dislocated shoulder??? what the hell are you talking...

 

[therhodeo]

dislocated shoulder??? what the hell are you talking...

Separated maybe but not dislocated.

 

[patrick767]

Big changes today

GC (Favorites, Contenders, Dark Horses)
WIGGINS Bradley SKY +7
VAN GARDEREN Tejay BMC +10
MENCHOV Denis KAT +13
EVANS Cadel BMC +17
NIBALI Vincenzo LIQ +18
KLÖDEN Andreas RNT +19
VAN DEN BROECK Jurgen LTB +28
BASSO Ivan LIQ +29
SANCHEZ Samuel EUS + 40
LEIPHEIMER Levi OPQ +45
COPPEL Jérôme SAU +48
HORNER Chris RNT +1.29
FROOME Chris SKY +1.41
VELITS Peter OPQ +2.09
MOLLEMA Bauke RAB +2.26
BRAJKOVIC Janez AST +2.27
PERAUD JC ALM +2.28
VALVERDE Alejandro MOV +2.40
SCARPONI Michele LAM +2.42
SCHLECK Frank RNT +2.43
ROLLAND Pierre EUC +2.50
GESINK Robert RAB +4.13
HESJEDAL Ryder GRS +13.38

Thanks! I was trying to figure out what happened to even the dark horses for the GC. Sure we all know the GC favorites, but you never know when someone will surprise us with a break out performance. Today is just sad for cycling fans.

I hope you guys are correct about the lost time possibly inspiring more attacks in the mountains. GTs seem to be more and more calculated in recent years. The silver lining of this cloud is that some excellent riders have little or nothing to lose.

 

[Escarabajo]

Schleck, Hesjedel, Gesink, Scarponi, TGBM... god, what a horrible day.

It's so hard to remember what impact crashes made in years past, so maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like the last couple years have been particularly bad on GC contenders. I hate, hate, hate seeing people eliminated from contention by something so random. We're robbed of knowing if the best rider won or simply the best of the lucky ones left over. Perhaps the peloton should have slowed.

There wasn't a thing any of those guys could do about it. You can try to ride near the front, but everyone wants their GC guys near the front. You won't always be there.

The crash happened at the back of the peloton, and as you know, if you are a GC contender you have to be at the front of the peloton. So there is more than just luck to the crashes. Just saying. Having said that, I also hate to see GC contenders go down.

 

[Havetts]

The crash happened at the back of the peloton, and as you know, if you are a GC contender you have to be at the front of the peloton. So there is more than just luck to the crashes. Just saying. Having said that, I also hate to see GC contenders go down.

Gesink said at the interview it happened around place 30 a 40. So an acceptable position if the sprinters take the first 15 spots. So place 30 approx that causes the crash causes a huge pile up on roads like that.

 

[Roude Leiw]

Crashes are always happening. You expect a couple in the opening wee. This however is a farce. One crash has taken out half of a potential top 20. It's becoming too common in the tour.

Who of the real contenders is out this evening? i think actually none, schleck said himself that he doesn't want to be team captain, gesink? TGBM ? top 10 perhaps, but that is still possible for them, i don't think that more (ie podium was a legit goal)
frenchies are whining the most with perraud and rolland, but even them, i think top ten maybe, but still possible. if they finish 1 min or 15 min down on wiggo as 9th, what real difference does it make...

on a sidenote, i hope that those here looking forward to the vuelta will not start complaining, becuse the sprinters finished their season after the olympics and that contador put 3 min into everybody after first mountain stage....

 

[Maxiton]

It really is amazing how quickly massive message board hype can get irritating, isn't it?

Sagan is, in my view, the biggest young talent in the whole peloton. Winning three stages in the first week of your first Tour is just incredible. But in terms of outright field sprints he still hasn't beaten the top guys, in top form. Cavendish wasn't there today and Greipel fell hard earlier. For that matter Kittel wasn't there either. Those are the consensus top 3 sprinters at the moment. There's no shame in that. The guy is 22 and is faster at 22 than any of those guys were, even Cavendish.

What you say is true. And the bold part is an especially good point. Scary, really.

 

[hiero2]

Is there a video of the crash. I only watched last couple of kms.

On the broadcasts I saw there was nothing that showed anything at all. Other than a long straight road. No curves, no spectators in the road, no cows, nothing but a flat straight road with a peloton in the middle of it, and people started going down like ten-pins.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

bright idea from rabobank not to send any GC contender at Giro and put all the eggs in the same basket at tour de france.
now gesink , mollema and kruswijik all almost out of competition
I am very happy for the team management, that it is always a benchmark in cycling.

It is a good choice seeing the way cycling is viewed in the Netherlands. The Tour comes first, then a long time of nothing, more nothing, some classics, more nothing and then finally the Giro and the Vuelta. I believe Dutch tv doesn't even broadcast the Giro and Vuelta. With that in mind a 4th place in the Giro or Vuelta means nothing to the sponsor or the management. A 9th place in the Tour however does. So from a business point of view you are better off sending all riders capable of a top 10 to the Tour and hope one of them manages.


And for everyone hoping this will mean more attacks, keep dreaming. They might attack, but if you are 2 minutes behind, the other GC riders can just let you go and watch as you waste your energy. Any attacks made by riders who fell today will be irrelevant for the GC.

 

[therhodeo]

The crash happened at the back of the peloton, and as you know, if you are a GC contender you have to be at the front of the peloton. So there is more than just luck to the crashes. Just saying. Having said that, I also hate to see GC contenders go down.

You don't have half the peloton caught out in a crash "at the back". Just saying.