2012 Tour de France: Stage 6: Épernay → Metz (207.5km)

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Jun 16, 2009
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Caruut said:
I remember reading that OGRE said they would work for Cadel is the opportunity arose. Well, seems they've done that. Will cheer against this band of fools from now on.
They never said that so don't be misleading. Orica GreenEdge were stuck in a hard place considering that they needed Green jersey points and wanted a victory considering that today was one of their last chances and on the other hand do they wait. It was a tricky situation.

I find it interesting now that many people are saying that this stage has killed the Tour even though all the main contenders are all quite close together. Crashes happen in the Tour. Many of the riders caught behind were unlucky but they were clearly not in the 1st 70 riders.
 
Jun 25, 2009
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So 4 didnt finish yesterday and today's DNS are Dupont, Erviti, Wynants, Txurruka, Freire, + maybe some others. The number of retirees from one crash could be in double figures :eek: (Wynants doesnt count for the crash 25km from the end though)
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Frosty said:
So 4 didnt finish yesterday and today's DNS are Dupont, Erviti, Wynants, Txurruka, Freire, + maybe some others. The number of retirees from one crash could be in double figures :eek: (Wynants doesnt count for the crash 25km from the end though)
Possibly Hesjedal, Vansummeren and Farrar. I think Farrar may start but he will either pull out of miss the time delay.
 
Jun 25, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
I find it interesting now that many people are saying that this stage has killed the Tour even though all the main contenders are all quite close together.
I suppose Wiggins, Evans, Menchov, Froome, Nibali, Sanchez, VDB were all some of the big favourites for the top 6 but Gesink, Valverde, Schleck, Hesjedal, van de velde, Rolland did all lose time.

auscyclefan94 said:
Crashes happen in the Tour. Many of the riders caught behind were unlucky but they were clearly not in the 1st 70 riders.
I dont think that's true. Accidents tend to happen on one side of the road and people on the other side manage to get through for a while before the crash blocks the whole road. I think that the people directly behind the crash were in about 40th, its just not possible for everyone to be up at the front. The accident happened next to Cancellara and i doubt he was hanging around at the back.
 
Jun 25, 2009
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Worth mentioning that although three Euskaltel seem to be very badly injured, Sammy Sanchez had 5 domestiques ahead of the crash (Perez, Martinez, Izaguirre, Azanta, Urtasun)
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Euskaltel have protected Sanchez very well this week. Most finishes they have had at least a couple of riders with him and were close to the front.
 
Aug 16, 2011
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auscyclefan94 said:
They never said that so don't be misleading. Orica GreenEdge were stuck in a hard place considering that they needed Green jersey points and wanted a victory considering that today was one of their last chances and on the other hand do they wait. It was a tricky situation.

I find it interesting now that many people are saying that this stage has killed the Tour even though all the main contenders are all quite close together. Crashes happen in the Tour. Many of the riders caught behind were unlucky but they were clearly not in the 1st 70 riders.
Would ou be saying this if Greenedge caught in the crash and BMC and Cadel where affected? I doubt it.#

It was sad to see that the two main teams who pushed on after the crash to take advantage of the situation last year where Greenedge and BMC for their Aussie leader. So much so for australian sportsmanship. Look at stage 9 last year when Vino crashed, Garmin stopped the peleton from racing to allow the crashed riders/teams to regroup.

The question I have for you, as BMC had no intention to sprint why did it need all its riders at the front?
 
May 27, 2010
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Normandy said:
Would ou be saying this if Greenedge caught in the crash and BMC and Cadel where affected? I doubt it.#

It was sad to see that the two main teams who pushed on after the crash to take advantage of the situation last year where Greenedge and BMC for their Aussie leader. So much so for australian sportsmanship. Look at stage 9 last year when Vino crashed, Garmin stopped the peleton from racing to allow the crashed riders/teams to regroup.

The question I have for you, as BMC had no intention to sprint why did it need all its riders at the front?
Have you been watching last years tour and the first week of this years tour at all.
BMC ALWAYS have some riders at the front to protect cadel especially in the later parts of a stage. Its not like they were specially doing it yesterday to take advantage of the situation.
This tactic that BMC has used has always paid off very well for them. Cadel and TJVG have been kept at the front constantly this first week and have not been involved in any of the crashes.
 
dlwssonic said:
Have you been watching last years tour and the first week of this years tour at all.
BMC ALWAYS have some riders at the front to protect cadel especially in the later parts of a stage. Its not like they were specially doing it yesterday to take advantage of the situation.
This tactic that BMC has used has always paid off very well for them. Cadel and TJVG have been kept at the front constantly this first week and have not been involved in any of the crashes.
Ok so next year Rabobank, Garmin, Movistar and Europcar decide to ride at the front of the bunch as well, becuase it's so freaking brilliant. Now that will be a huge crashfest.
What sucks most is that because some GC riders teams decide they should ride up front this **** happens. Everyone tries to be at the front and it just has to result in a mess. They can't all be at the front.

The crash happened next to Cancellara it was somewhere between 30th-40th position.
 
Aug 16, 2011
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dlwssonic said:
Have you been watching last years tour and the first week of this years tour at all.
BMC ALWAYS have some riders at the front to protect cadel especially in the later parts of a stage. Its not like they were specially doing it yesterday to take advantage of the situation.
This tactic that BMC has used has always paid off very well for them. Cadel and TJVG have been kept at the front constantly this first week and have not been involved in any of the crashes.
Yes I did watch last years tour (and replays over the last year of the stages where there was exciting stages - mainly then ones where there was a great solo effort) and I have watched this years stages as well as most stage races this year. I am aware that it is BMCs tactic and that of Sky and was the tactic of US poastal. It might bring 'wins' to those teams but it destroys any race and makes it a complete borefest. It also makes it dangerous that while these teams just sit there to defend there position, teams that want to race have to fight through to get to their 'racers' to the front. The consequence is all the crashing.

Winning the BMC or Sky way by neutrailising the oppostion and people crashing out does nothing for the sport. Hollow victories. I want to watch people winning by racing, attacking and being prepared to loose, by using their own skills. It was great to see Westra at the Giro with his solo burst on the last but one day. That is the way to win races and type of GC racing I want to watch.

Yes I might be old fashioned because I believe in good sportsmanship. If you go the BMC/Sky route you are not going to increase the cycling audience. Tomorrow there is the choice of watching live The British Formula 1 Grand prix, the Mens Final at Wimbledon or TdF. I will be watching the F1 or Tennis live and the TdF recording. Even then, depending on the results, I might end up fast forwarding a lot.

I know looking at another thread I am not the only one with this view.
 
Jun 17, 2009
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Normandy said:
Yes I did watch last years tour (and replays over the last year of the stages where there was exciting stages - mainly then ones where there was a great solo effort) and I have watched this years stages as well as most stage races this year. I am aware that it is BMCs tactic and that of Sky and was the tactic of US poastal. It might bring 'wins' to those teams but it destroys any race and makes it a complete borefest. It also makes it dangerous that while these teams just sit there to defend there position, teams that want to race have to fight through to get to their 'racers' to the front. The consequence is all the crashing.

Winning the BMC or Sky way by neutrailising the oppostion and people crashing out does nothing for the sport. Hollow victories. I want to watch people winning by racing, attacking and being prepared to loose, by using their own skills. It was great to see Westra at the Giro with his solo burst on the last but one day. That is the way to win races and type of GC racing I want to watch.

Yes I might be old fashioned because I believe in good sportsmanship. If you go the BMC/Sky route you are not going to increase the cycling audience. Tomorrow there is the choice of watching live The British Formula 1 Grand prix, the Mens Final at Wimbledon or TdF. I will be watching the F1 or Tennis live and the TdF recording. Even then, depending on the results, I might end up fast forwarding a lot.

I know looking at another thread I am not the only one with this view.
Which Teams are you saying are wanting to race, but cant get to the front?



Hugh
 
Jul 5, 2010
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hughmoore said:
Which Teams are you saying are wanting to race, but cant get to the front?

Hugh
It is more that there are teams that don't want to race, but still want to be at the front. If all GC riders just calmed down, crashes like this wouldn't happen. While it is true that many stages this year were caused by sprinters, there has been lots of strange riding by GC riders. BMC is one of the worst here. I understand why they do it. But with 4km to go, Evans shouldn't be breaking up the sprint trains. We now have GC riders sprinting to the 3km mark. I'm sure that isn't the idea behind that rule.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
They never said that so don't be misleading. Orica GreenEdge were stuck in a hard place considering that they needed Green jersey points and wanted a victory considering that today was one of their last chances and on the other hand do they wait. It was a tricky situation.

I find it interesting now that many people are saying that this stage has killed the Tour even though all the main contenders are all quite close together. Crashes happen in the Tour. Many of the riders caught behind were unlucky but they were clearly not in the 1st 70 riders.
http://afr.com/p/lifestyle/sport/cycling/physical_and_mental_duel_the_tour_o39rqAODCMxhRZgcLoQOIK

Once the sprinting is done, Ryan says the Orica-GreenEdge team may make themselves available to help Evans’s quest for back-to-back yellows. “I am sure if [Evans] needs it, the GreenEdge boys will give him a hand,” Ryan says. Evans will be grateful for the support.
 
Jun 17, 2009
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Dutchsmurf said:
It is more that there are teams that don't want to race, but still want to be at the front. If all GC riders just calmed down, crashes like this wouldn't happen. While it is true that many stages this year were caused by sprinters, there has been lots of strange riding by GC riders. BMC is one of the worst here. I understand why they do it. But with 4km to go, Evans shouldn't be breaking up the sprint trains. We now have GC riders sprinting to the 3km mark. I'm sure that isn't the idea behind that rule.
Evans has always done this, this is why he has been on podium several times. Its his job!

What do you want the GC riders to do, soft pedal and let Cancellara get several minutes?

Hugh
 
Sep 19, 2010
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auscyclefan94 said:
Euskaltel have protected Sanchez very well this week. Most finishes they have had at least a couple of riders with him and were close to the front.
Very well, but if Verdugo is forced to abandon, he'll only have Izagirre and Martinez for the mountains. Azanza, Urtasun and Perez are no climbers. That's not enough. Losing Astarloza and Txurruka is a serious blow to Samu's chances. It's like Evans losing Van Garderen and Cummings on a single day.

Terrible day for Euskaltel yesterday.
 
Jul 5, 2010
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hughmoore said:
Evans has always done this, this is why he has been on podium several times. Its his job!

What do you want the GC riders to do, soft pedal and let Cancellara get several minutes?
Cancellara getting several minutes is hardly a problem, so why not? I know Evans has always done that, but that doesn't mean I think it is a good idea. Because he does it, all the other GC riders have to do it too. And that causes a situation with 20 GC riders and 20 sprinters, all with teammates, wanting to be in the first 20 positions. If everyone would just let the sprinters take the front with the GC riders behind it, it would work a lot better. All that is needed is a jury that is less strict with time gaps and drafting.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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karlboss said:
http://afr.com/p/lifestyle/sport/cycling/physical_and_mental_duel_the_tour_o39rqAODCMxhRZgcLoQOIK

Once the sprinting is done, Ryan says the Orica-GreenEdge team may make themselves available to help Evans’s quest for back-to-back yellows. “I am sure if [Evans] needs it, the GreenEdge boys will give him a hand,” Ryan says. Evans will be grateful for the support.
I bet he said it in a tounge-in-cheek way. Even if he didn't, a) GreenEdge won't have any climbers to chase for Evans anyway and b) the Spanish have always worked together like this in the past so I don't see if they did, how it would be such a big deal.

It was quite ironic to see an Australian team screw over Valverde yesterday.:rolleyes:
 
Jun 25, 2009
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karlboss said:
http://afr.com/p/lifestyle/sport/cycling/physical_and_mental_duel_the_tour_o39rqAODCMxhRZgcLoQOIK

Once the sprinting is done, Ryan says the Orica-GreenEdge team may make themselves available to help Evans’s quest for back-to-back yellows. “I am sure if [Evans] needs it, the GreenEdge boys will give him a hand,” Ryan says. Evans will be grateful for the support.
A nice sentiment but i fail to see what help GreenEdge can give from the autobus on the mountain stages;)
 
Jun 22, 2012
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Frosty said:
A nice sentiment but i fail to see what help GreenEdge can give from the autobus on the mountain stages;)
They could put a couple of riders in the break, to help on downhill or flat parts towards the ends of many of the "mountain" stages...:rolleyes:
 
Jun 25, 2009
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The Joker said:
They could put a couple of riders in the break, to help on downhill or flat parts towards the ends of many of the "mountain" stages...:rolleyes:
By help do you mean yell some encouragement to Evans as the main contenders go by?:confused:

Just joking, most of GreenEdge cant really climb at all but Weening and Albasini can.
 

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