2013, Paris - Roubaix: 254Km

[l.Harm]

Nice story Really helped Degenkolb to get a good result.. oh wait

 

[benpounder]

...I simply challenged the legitimacy of claiming that degree of accuracy.

Then you are on a fools errand. Such precision is fleeting even in 50m or 100m dashes. Even then, when start and finish lines are measured to the centimeter if not millimeter, the precision required to establish just how much each participant deviated from the perfect straight line from start to finish does reach into the realms of nanoseconds.

We are talking Km/hr, not micromillimeters per nanosecond - start line to finish line.

Remember stage 9 of the 2003 Tour de France -I do because I was there. Doping aside (Beloki crashed out, Basso, Ullrich, Hamilton, Mayo and Mancebo finished with the same time as LA and Vino won that stage), LA placed fourth into Gap and went on to win the TdF. He rode at least a dozen less meters than anyone else on that shortcut off the Cote de la Rochette.

But that is not how a race is measured. It is from start to finish - the actual course one takes is up to the competitor within the rules of the competition. Herman Meier and Michael Phelps may have taken a longer path, but they still finished in front of their opponents. Their times and records still stand.

As will Boonen and Cancellara's winning km/h times. I dont understand why you want to dismiss this metric.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

You know why Paris-Roubaix is the most epic and dramatic race in the calendar. That is why :

(Edit: or has anyone mentioned it before because I haven't read all of this thread?)

Als Tom [Stamsnijder] in Parijs- Roubaix over de finish komt zijn er 43 minuten en 59 seconden verstreken sinds Fabian Cancellara zijn dubbelslag heeft geslagen. Tom komt buiten de tijd binnen. Dat komt niet omdat hij het vermogen miste om de koers uit te rijden zoals hij het zelf voor ogen had. Nee, als hij zijn wiel over de meet op de wielerbaan drukt is dat het gevolg van absolute gedrevenheid om de finish te halen, koste wat het kost. "Ik heb de eerste 100 kilometer hard gewerkt voor de ploeg. Ik moest een kopgroep terughalen van 13 man waar wij niet bij zaten. Na een kilometer of 75 hadden we die terug waarna ik John (Degenkolb) heb bij gestaan." Het gaat mis als Tom in de buik van het peloton even op adem komt. "Er ontstond een grote valpartij waardoor iedereen die daar achter zat niet meer terug kon komen. Het hele veld was uiteen geslagen en op dat moment heb ik maar besloten om er een goede training van te maken, met maar één doel voor ogen, de finish halen. Ik zat in een mooie groep van 10 man maar met nog 25 kilometer te gaan reed ik lek. Er was geen auto in de buurt en ik kon uiteindelijk maar één ding doen, doorrijden. Uiteindelijk heb ik 13 kilometer door gereden op een lekke achterband. Op einde van Carfour de l'Arbre Kreeg ik pas een nieuw wiel. Daarmee kon ik in ieder geval nog comfortabel naar de finish rijden." Ondanks alle ellende is Tom niet ontevreden over de dag; "ik ben zeker tevreden over de eerste 100 kilometer, daarna lekker getraind. Weet je, de wil en frustratie over de laatste weken waren groter..." En het achterwiel? "Daar was helemaal niets van over!"

When Tom Stamsnijder crossed the finish line, it has already been 43'59" since Cancellara made his double. Tom came outside time limits. That's not because he lacked the ability to finish it as he wanted to. That's because of his intention to finish the race , at all cost. "In the first 100km I worked hard for the team. I had to catch a 13-man group back in which we didn't have any rider. After roughly 75km we catch them and then I had to support John (Degenkolb)." It went wrong when Tom was recuperating in the midst of the peloton. "There was a big crash whereby everybody who were behind couldn't come back anymore. The whole field fell apart and I had but one goal, reaching the finish. With 25km to go I was in a 10-man group and punctured. There were no cars in the area and there was only one thing I could do, keep on riding. Eventually I rode 13km on a flat rear wheel. I received a new wheel only at the end of the Carrefour de l'Arbre. Thereby I could still comfortably ride to the finish." Despite all the trouble Tom isn't disappointed about the day, " I'm certainly glad with my first 100km, then good training. You know the will and the frustration about the last weeks were bigger..." And the rear wheel? "Nothing remains of it!"

Reminds me of Pablo Urtasun a few years ago. Adds to the legend of Paris-Roubaix. He deserves to be classified !!

ah the heroics of P-R. Great story.

OTL is needed in stage races, but not in a race such as P-R.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

snipped...

To be honest, I think 40 or 50 percent of these statements are pure lies.

more snipping...

lol, or perhaps even higher in general. In P-R the percentage could be lower however.

 

[spalco]

It's amazing that the rim held up to that sort of abuse.

 

[greenedge]

Great ride by Cancellara- my other thoughts are expressed in the rating of PR thread.
JV must be kicking himself.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Then you are on a fools errand. Such precision is fleeting even in 50m or 100m dashes. Even then, when start and finish lines are measured to the centimeter if not millimeter, the precision required to establish just how much each participant deviated from the perfect straight line from start to finish does reach into the realms of nanoseconds.

We are talking Km/hr, not micromillimeters per nanosecond - start line to finish line.

Remember stage 9 of the 2003 Tour de France -I do because I was there. Doping aside (Beloki crashed out, Basso, Ullrich, Hamilton, Mayo and Mancebo finished with the same time as LA and Vino won that stage), LA placed fourth into Gap and went on to win the TdF. He rode at least a dozen less meters than anyone else on that shortcut off the Cote de la Rochette.

But that is not how a race is measured. It is from start to finish - the actual course one takes is up to the competitor within the rules of the competition. Herman Meier and Michael Phelps may have taken a longer path, but they still finished in front of their opponents. Their times and records still stand.

As will Boonen and Cancellara's winning km/h times. I dont understand why you want to dismiss this metric.

Thank you for backing up my point. I was saying that the initial information, which claimed to give an average speed to the nearest metre per hour was untenable, and you have given further evidence for that.

I am by no means dismissing average speed as a relevant metric. Did anyone actually read my opening sentence?

 

[benpounder]

...

I am by no means dismissing average speed as a relevant metric. Did anyone actually read my opening sentence?

Fair enough...

and probably not. I certainly scanned past...

 

[hiero2]

What is true? That he won by luck?

No, but some people - well they are fans of somebody else, eh? Luck played a part - it always does in P-R, but you still have to ride smart and be strong. Canc outdid himself on both counts in this P-R.

What we DID see was that Stybar and Vandenbergh didn't have the strength to stick once the rythm was interrupted. Boom got dropped after the 30K "car fallback" tactic - nothing to do with luck there.

I agree that Canc was beatable today, as he has often been the past couple years. When somebody can stick on his wheel to the finish, it often hasn't turned out well for Canc. Personally, I was glad Sagan was not there today, but I am a fan of Canc. If Sagan had managed to avoid the crashes and bad mechanicals, he would probably have made it a different race.

Last week I asked. "What are Sagan chances here?" I received two answers."Zero", "Only real men can race here". OK. I took it as a fact.

However after seeing Stybar there on the end I want to ask it again. I am just curious to know what makes him disqualified from the list of real contenders?

Stybar is too young and green to have been included in the list of contenders. This was his first P-R, yes? Vandenburgh and Stybar were also not the team leader.

And if you had asked me about Sagan here - well, after Flanders we knew he wasn't riding P-R, so that = 0, eh?

 

[RHRH19861986]

Refering to my previous post... Read the CN story about Terpstra.

Unbelieveable. Also, Terpstra claims to have switched bikes JUST in the moment Cancellara attacked.

If you believed the stories told by the top riders who later finished placed 2nd to 50th, in the monuments and races like Wevelgem or E3, they ALWAYS have one of these two problems right in the deciding moment: mechanical or flat tyre, so need to change bikes.
Strange that this almost never happens to Cancellara and Boonen.
I have the serious suspicion Cancellara and Boonen throw nails onto the course before attacking.

If these riders´ stories were true, TV pictures normally should show a Cancellara on the attack and suddenly 20 men standing at the side of the road, changing bikes. So suddenly Cancellara in the picture, sitting on his bike, and noone else in the picture anymore. Noone chasing him, everyone just standing at the side. In every race, for years now.

In fact, TV pictures show something else. There are huge attacks, and many people just don´t have the legs to follow. They try, but lose second after second.

A Cancellara won´t have a better bike than a Devolder, and RadioShack and Omega don´t have better bikes than BMC or Blanco, that´s the next aspect.

One has to be just bored and sick of the faitytales which are told after these races. The winner always smiles, and the ones who get placings always have excuses. But the excuse "I just was not good enough" seems to be forgotten nowadays.

 

[wiggos sideburn]

So thats why when Cancellara attacked the final time with Stybar in his wheel Terpstra was at the front of the pack he left

 

[Pentacycle]

Refering to my previous post... Read the CN story about Terpstra.

Unbelieveable. Also, Terpstra claims to have switched bikes JUST in the moment Cancellara attacked.

If you believed the stories told by the top riders who later finished placed 2nd to 50th, in the monuments and races like Wevelgem or E3, they ALWAYS have one of these two problems right in the deciding moment: mechanical or flat tyre, so need to change bikes.
Strange that this almost never happens to Cancellara and Boonen.
I have the serious suspicion Cancellara and Boonen throw nails onto the course before attacking.

If these riders´ stories were true, TV pictures normally should show a Cancellara on the attack and suddenly 20 men standing at the side of the road, changing bikes. So suddenly Cancellara in the picture, sitting on his bike, and noone else in the picture anymore. Noone chasing him, everyone just standing at the side. In every race, for years now.

In fact, TV pictures show something else. There are huge attacks, and many people just don´t have the legs to follow. They try, but lose second after second.

A Cancellara won´t have a better bike than a Devolder, and RadioShack and Omega don´t have better bikes than BMC or Blanco, that´s the next aspect.

One has to be just bored and sick of the faitytales which are told after these races. The winner always smiles, and the ones who get placings always have excuses. But the excuse "I just was not good enough" seems to be forgotten nowadays.

Boom's front wheel was partly broken, Eisel had a flat tire just like Terpstra. Perhaps if this didn't happen he wouldn't have been able to return to the front. Without those bike changes he'd always have someone from Blanco or OPQS guarding him, so I get your point completely.

 

[RHRH19861986]

lol, or perhaps even higher in general.

Agree, very well possible.

Also the many flu and knee problem stories, or DNSs before stage one, must be rated as not very reliable. I mean, many stories might be true, especially in this hard spring of 2013, but it´s always 50-50 if it´s completely true, or if it´s partially true or a pure lie.

For example, a rider like Boasson Hagen, if he really gets 2 million Euros a year, and performs like he did, would look like an idiot if he said "I feel super, I don´t know why I don´t perform". Then he could say "I actually don´t like cobbles", and Sky would be asked "Why do you pay him 2 million Euro a year and make him captain or co-captain for races that don´t suit him?", and finally Boasson Hagen AND Sky looked like idiots. So he says, "Look, I have knee troubles, can hardly train, and still finish 37th in the hardest races of the world, look what a talent I am, I´m well worth 2 Million a year".

Boasson just for example. His problems might also well be true, he´s a great rider without any doubt, and a nice guy, and surely will have great days in his future, but what I want to say is I don´t like these stories which sometimes almost seem ridiculous.

The same, by the way, for Andy Schleck. How can one have motivation problems if you get 1 or 2 or 3 millions a year, have good chances to be pensioner at 35 or 38, can win the Tour de France, and knowing your longest working day (at least in the saddle, I know it takes 24h of daily focus) is 6 or 7 hours for three weeks in January, when he gets the base miles in?

 

[shalgo]

After his poor tactics yesterday, it is clear why Flecha has never won Roubaix. But what consistency in his results over the years:

2003: 24th
2004: 13th
2005: 3rd
2006: 4th
2007: 2nd
2008: 12th
2009: 6th
2010: 3rd
2011: 9th
2012: 4th
2013: 8th

 

[classicomano]

Blanco riders before and after

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0LFuGH5ghI&&hd=1&autoplay=1&fs=1

 

[Netserk]

How The Race Was Won

 

[will10]

Refering to my previous post... Read the CN story about Terpstra.

Unbelieveable. Also, Terpstra claims to have switched bikes JUST in the moment Cancellara attacked.

If you believed the stories told by the top riders who later finished placed 2nd to 50th, in the monuments and races like Wevelgem or E3, they ALWAYS have one of these two problems right in the deciding moment: mechanical or flat tyre, so need to change bikes.
Strange that this almost never happens to Cancellara and Boonen.
I have the serious suspicion Cancellara and Boonen throw nails onto the course before attacking.

If these riders´ stories were true, TV pictures normally should show a Cancellara on the attack and suddenly 20 men standing at the side of the road, changing bikes. So suddenly Cancellara in the picture, sitting on his bike, and noone else in the picture anymore. Noone chasing him, everyone just standing at the side. In every race, for years now.

In fact, TV pictures show something else. There are huge attacks, and many people just don´t have the legs to follow. They try, but lose second after second.

A Cancellara won´t have a better bike than a Devolder, and RadioShack and Omega don´t have better bikes than BMC or Blanco, that´s the next aspect.

One has to be just bored and sick of the faitytales which are told after these races. The winner always smiles, and the ones who get placings always have excuses. But the excuse "I just was not good enough" seems to be forgotten nowadays.

In 2010 Cancellara couldn't stop changing bikes.

 

[RHRH19861986]

In 2010 Cancellara couldn't stop changing bikes.

Yes, he stopped even more than once, but maybe not due to a mechanical, but to switch onto his second bike, with the motor in it.

 

[burning]

Yes, he stopped even more than once, but maybe not due to a mechanical, but to switch onto his second bike, with the motor in it.

I think the theory was riding with motored bike in the first part of the race, then switching to a normal bike to prevent any possible issues

 

[RHRH19861986]

I think the theory was riding with motored bike in the first part of the race, then switching to a normal bike to prevent any possible issues

He could have started with the motored one, than normal one. In the end, however, motored one again, which helped him a lot to attack 50km or so to go. That was a hugh acceleration, something you don´t see when a rider normally attacks. Within seconds, he seemed to have 150 or 175 % of the speed of his opponents.

Also in Flanders 2010, he must have used it in the finale, you see it when he attaccks Boonen on the muur, also with an unusual acceleration, even more so since it was uphill.

 

[wiggos sideburn]

Didn't know there was so much trolling

 

[Pentacycle]

He could have started with the motored one, than normal one. In the end, however, motored one again, which helped him a lot to attack 50km or so to go. That was a hugh acceleration, something you don´t see when a rider normally attacks. Within seconds, he seemed to have 150 or 175 % of the speed of his opponents.

Also in Flanders 2010, he must have used it in the finale, you see it when he attaccks Boonen on the muur, also with an unusual acceleration, even more so since it was uphill.

Cancellara's just better than the rest in top shape, with or without an engine in his bike. Are you sure about the engine myth? It's been discussed way too many times.

 

[RHRH19861986]

Are you sure about the engine myth? It's been discussed way too many times.

You´re right, it has been discussed so many times, so I don´t want to start a new debate.

Concerning your question: well, first, I thought it was a joke. I thought, "If that´s true, that would be a worse cheat than any doping case and worse than even what e.g. Bos did to Impey, or just as bad". Then I had a look at the re-live pictures. I was not so much this Cassani explanation, about shifting and seing him move his fingers strangely shortly before attacking, it was the attacks himself. It looked (and still looks) different to me than any other attack I ever saw, also I ever saw also from him before and after 2010. His attacks in 2011 and 2013 looked much more normal, just what it looks when a world class rider attacks. Powerful and successful, with a clear acceleration, but not reaching that of 2010, where, like I said, unbelieveably quickly reached a speed certainly at least 150% faster than the attacked ones.

 

[thehog]

This video is so worth watching.

From NOS and those who finish 25 minutes down.

http://tinyurl.com/cs9ftl5

Very well shot and excellent images.

 

[movingtarget]

This video is so worth watching.

From NOS and those who finish 25 minutes down.

http://tinyurl.com/cs9ftl5

Very well shot and excellent images.

Good one. A view you rarely see.