2013 Santos Tour Down Under: 20th Jan - 27th Jan

[theyoungest]

Guardini > all

on seriously note tho, guardini's top end speed is scary. . . i hope he improves his endurance and recovery so he can reach the finishing lines fresh and doesn't become another theo boss

He's had more years on the road than Theo Bos.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Guardini > all

on seriously note tho, guardini's top end speed is scary. . . i hope he improves his endurance and recovery so he can reach the finishing lines fresh and doesn't become another theo boss

Theo Bos has won harder (more hills) and longer (more kms) races than Guardini. Hell Bos even rode 3/4tyh of a giro with a broken vertebrae...
so what the **** are you even talking about? he's twice as tough as Guardini

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

He's won more mid-sprint fights than Guardini has too.

 

[Afrank]

Bos has also been around longer than Guardini.

 

[gustienordic]

Theo Bos has won harder (more hills) and longer (more kms) races than Guardini. Hell Bos even rode 3/4tyh of a giro with a broken vertebrae...
so what the **** are you even talking about? he's twice as tough as Guardini

Guardini is pretty close to the worst climber there is :/ I wanna see him in a fair sprint against Cavendish to see how he compares... Giro was close to that.

 

[will10]

Guardini = Quaranta mk. II

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Guardini = Quaranta mk. II

Could be. Quaranta's win rate:

1996: 0 victories
1997: 1 victory
1998: 4 victories
1999: 7 victories
2000: 6 victories
2001: 7 victories
2002: 5 victories
2003: 4 victories
2004: 3 victories
2005: 0 victories
2006: 0 victories
2007: 2 victories
2008: 0 victories

 

[El Pistolero]

The thing about all these cobbled classics that you desperately hang onto for proof that boonen is the best sprinter in the world, is that those cobbled classics are tomekes raison detre. He spends half the year preparing for them and the other half resting for them.

So he arrives at 95-100%

None of the other sprinters spend months preparing a peak for the classics. They are.more 70-80%.

So all you are proving is that boonen can beat these guys when he is on red hot form and they are not. Which is still impressive but doesn't prove he's a better sprinter than them.

E3 Harelbeke has really a very limited effect of cobbles, just the cobbled hills. And Degenkolb is a sprinter that can climb those hills as we've seen already, so that's not a good excuse.

Degenkolb is the only one winning races with ****ty fields, not Boonen. So I don't understand your logic there.

Sprinting speed isn't even affected all that much by form. Your freshness at the finish of a rather hilly race is however affected by form. All the top sprinters win races in March and April.

Do you really think Degenkolb doesn't want to be good for the classics? I'm sure he rather peaks for the Tour de Picardie according to you, but that's another matter.

Even the Tour of Denmark had a better sprinting field than the Vuelta a Espana. Degenkolb's season might look super impressive, but when you look at who he faced in those races it's all much less impressive. His fourth place at the WC is much more impressive than any of his 5 Vuelta stages. Degenkolb is actually one of the riders that resembles Boonen the most probably. And as time goes on he'll become better than him, but that's because of the age difference of course.

 

[Bushman]

E3 Harelbeke has really a very limited effect of cobbles, just the cobbled hills. And Degenkolb is a sprinter that can climb those hills as we've seen already, so that's not a good excuse.

Degenkolb is the only one winning races with ****ty fields, not Boonen. So I don't understand your logic there.

Sprinting speed isn't even affected all that much by form. Your freshness at the finish of a rather hilly race is however affected by form. All the top sprinters win races in March and April.

Do you really think Degenkolb doesn't want to be good for the classics? I'm sure he rather peaks for the Tour de Picardie according to you, but that's another matter.

Since when has the classics been degenkolbs main goal? Yeah, he was good this year, but he didn't peak for them, unlike Boonen.

 

[El Pistolero]

Since when has the classics been degenkolbs main goal? Yeah, he was good this year, but he didn't peak for them, unlike Boonen.

He was good this year? He was actually very bad this year.

In interviews he said he wants to do well in the cobbled classics and M-SR.

Did you see him as a neo pro in the Omloop het Nieuwsblad in 2011? Quite a lot of potential there.

 

[search]

I don't really understand the point of this discussion. Degenbolb has never been a pure sprinter, he was 19th in Paris Roubaix on his first attempt - and I think he does have the ability to fight for the win one day. We can judge afterwards who is quicker, Boonen or him.

His sprint in the E3 wasn't impressive, that's for sure, and he was very angry about himself afterwards. And of course, he did peak for less important stage races, what else are you supposed to do when you are on a pro conti team and need victories to be invited to world tour races?!

 

[El Pistolero]

I don't really understand the point of this discussion. Degenbolb has never been a pure sprinter, he was 19th in Paris Roubaix on his first attempt - and I think he does have the ability to fight for the win one day. We can judge afterwards who is quicker, Boonen or him.

His sprint in the E3 wasn't impressive, that's for sure, and he was very angry about himself afterwards. And of course, he did peak for less important stage races, what else are you supposed to do when you are on a pro conti team and need victories to be invited to world tour races?!

Actually his team got a ****load of WT wildcards at the start of the season, but that's besides the matter. It even surprised me they wanted to be in the WT considering everyone invites them anyway.

And of course he's not a pure sprinter, hence his resemblance to Boonen.

There's an age difference of 9 years by the way, my list only ranked sprinters based on this year. We'll never be able to judge who was quicker in their prime.

 

[Pentacycle]

Actually his team got a ****load of WT wildcards at the start of the season, but that's besides the matter. It even surprised me they wanted to be in the WT considering everyone invites them anyway.

And of course he's not a pure sprinter, hence his resemblance to Boonen.

There's an age difference of 9 years by the way, my list only ranked sprinters based on this year. We'll never be able to judge who was quicker in their prime.

He was good in MSR, he could have sprinted for the win if Nibali hadn't attacked. He is by far the best talent besides Sagan, and probably better suited to cobbles too. He crashed in the Ronde, and it still bothered him in P-R. Next year he can go head to head with Boonen and Sagan, hopefully all at 100% and without crashes.

Is one of them even riding Down Under?

 

[The Hitch]

E3 Harelbeke has really a very limited effect of cobbles, just the cobbled hills. And Degenkolb is a sprinter that can climb those hills as we've seen already, so that's not a good excuse.

I said something about degenkolb not being able to climb cobbles and hills?

Degenkolb is the only one winning races with ****ty fields, not Boonen. So I don't understand your logic there.

I said something about boonen winning against ****ty fields?

Do you really think Degenkolb doesn't want to be good for the classics? I'm sure he rather peaks for the Tour de Picardie according to you, but that's another matter. :

I said that degenkolb doesn't want to peak for classics and that he peaked for the tour of picardie ?

Sprinting speed isn't even affected all that much by form. Your freshness at the finish of a rather hilly race is however affected by form. All the top sprinters win races in March and April.

Doesn't mean they are on form. I remember you tried this crap mid season last year when you declared that cavs season aim was msr and that he peaked for it and you laughing at how pathetic he was that even on peak he was so crap. (of course now that he's on a Belgian team and carnal of boonen your his biggest fan).

None of the sprinters peak for the classics on anywhere near the same level that boonen does.

Therefore it is wrong to.draw conclusions when a 100% boonen who has been training on the course for half his.life in front of his home fans with everything the team has thrown at him, comes up against sprinters at 80% who have other targets in their sights.

 

[greenedge]

As for Demare, he's too young for me to pass any judgement on already. Haven't seen enough of him yet. He didn't do well in his first GT for example.

He did very well this year and got quite a few wins 6. Also he got a top 4 in a Giro stage and 7th, 8th and 9th are not that bad. Cav in his first GT only got 9th and 10th- though it was the TDF.

In Vattenfall Demare beat Greipel and Boonen. Greipel got 3 more wins after that so evidently he still had form.

 

[Telmisartan new]

Anyone know who's leading Garmin in the 'medium mountains' ?

 

[theyoungest]

Bos has also been around longer than Guardini.

Like I said, no he hasn't. Yes he's older, but he's only been a road racer for 4 years, of which 3 years in a pro team.

 

[El Pistolero]

Like I said, no he hasn't. Yes he's older, but he's only been a road racer for 4 years, of which 3 years in a pro team.

Yeah Bos still has some stamina issues because of his transition to the road from track cycling. He would've been a better sprinter had he started in road cycling. But he would've never beaten Cav consistently because the latter made the transition seemingly easily.

How many GTs has he finished/ridden?

 

[Ruudz0r]

Anyone know who's leading Garmin in the 'medium mountains' ?

In the TDU, Haas and Dennis I suppose maybe Morton can show something to.

 

[El Pistolero]

Doesn't mean they are on form. I remember you tried this crap mid season last year when you declared that cavs season aim was msr and that he peaked for it and you laughing at how pathetic he was that even on peak he was so crap. (of course now that he's on a Belgian team and carnal of boonen your his biggest fan).

None of the sprinters peak for the classics on anywhere near the same level that boonen does.

Therefore it is wrong to.draw conclusions when a 100% boonen who has been training on the course for half his.life in front of his home fans with everything the team has thrown at him, comes up against sprinters at 80% who have other targets in their sights.

Cav always wants to have his first peak of the season for Milan-San Remo and then hold it till Gent-Wevelgem. His performance in both races was pathetic(I fail to see why you think my opinion on that is changed somehow). Your denial about any sprinter wanting to have his first peak for these kind of races is hilarious though.

What other targets are we speaking of here? Degenkolb won 5 Vuelta stages and not a single good sprinter had his eyes set on that one. Cavendish, Greipel, Kittel, Sagan, Boonen, Matthew Goss, Theo Bos, Freire, etc all weren't there. Good luck drawing conclusions from that one. So he's faster than Ben Swift, amazing. His other victories are barely worth mentioning. His fourth place at the WC and his subsequent performance at Paris-Tours was still his best performance of the season.

Gent-Wevelgem at least had Cavendish, Greipel, Kittel, Sagan, Boonen, Degenkolb, Freire, Goss, EBH, etc

Looks like the sprinters think Gent-Wevelgem is a more important goal than the Vuelta... And that you're wrong. How many sprinters besides Cavendish and Greipel won a Tour de France stage this year anyway? Looks to me that they shouldn't be so picky about what race they're peaking for.

 

[theyoungest]

Yeah Bos still has some stamina issues because of his transition to the road from track cycling. He would've been a better sprinter had he started in road cycling. But he would've never beaten Cav consistently because the latter made the transition seemingly easily.

How many GTs has he finished/ridden?

Cav wasn't a sprinter on the track, he was an endurance rider. Theo Bos is the only real track sprinter to make the transition. Imagine Chris Hoy doing the same.

Bos has done two GTs, both of them he almost finished. But in the first one he crashed into a moto in the final TT and in the second one he rode two weeks with a broken vertebra.

 

[El Pistolero]

Cav wasn't a sprinter on the track, he was an endurance rider. Theo Bos is the only real track sprinter to make the transition. Imagine Chris Hoy doing the same.

Bos has done two GTs, both of them he almost finished. But in the first one he crashed into a moto in the final TT and in the second one he rode two weeks with a broken vertebra.

I see, well that explains it then.

Yeah, I know about his broken vertebra. I actually thought he would do well in the Giro, but with back problems that serious that ain't going to happen. Happened in one of the stages in Denmark if I remember correctly.

He should really try to finish a GT this year though, in good health(no point riding around with a serious injury). We've seen what kind of an effect completing your first GT can have on someone.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Looks like the sprinters think Gent-Wevelgem is a more important goal than the Vuelta... And that you're wrong. How many sprinters besides Cavendish and Greipel won a Tour de France stage this year anyway? Looks to me that they shouldn't be so picky about what race they're peaking for.

Vuelta '12 involved only a handful of flat stages. Not a lot of opportunities for "true" bunch sprinters that late in the season. We could see a similar "small" sprinter field in the Giro this year.

 

[El Pistolero]

Vuelta '12 involved only a handful of flat stages. Not a lot of opportunities for "true" bunch sprinters that late in the season. We could see a similar "small" sprinter field in the Giro this year.

That's part of the reason I know, but there were still 6 opportunities.

Quite a few good sprinters have already said they want to do the Giro this year, so sprinters clearly rate the Giro higher than the Vuelta.

Ps: perhaps a kind mod should move all these posts into a new thread called "top ten sprinters".

 

[Afrank]

Like I said, no he hasn't. Yes he's older, but he's only been a road racer for 4 years, of which 3 years in a pro team.

He's been around in the PRT longer, Plus Guardini being younger when he started road means he'll probably have more opportunities to win as wide a variety of races as Bos has so far.