2013 Santos Tour Down Under: 20th Jan - 27th Jan

[Wilba60]

Goss has normally been really fit and riding fast this early in the season but last year he made a conscious decision to back off the early season and try a different build up to be peaking at the TdF. Even though he had a consistent year I think he was somewhat disappointed in how it panned out and has come back to his "normal" strategy. He has come from a heavy winter training package in Europe and hit that 41C day in the Herald Sun Tour last week and has since got quite a few miles in his legs. I think OGE see him as a better option to take on the might of Greipel than Mathews.

Whereas Mathews has just joined the team, Meyer is a much tougher decision. Clarke and Meyer are probably very similar riders and OGE probably decided they just needed one of them in the team. Clarke didn't ride the early Aussie races last year, so it will be interesting to see how he goes as he is in as good a form as Gerrans.

 

[Wilba60]

Anyway, they might not even need Gerro, Clarke or Goss. They might just send Turbo up the road and let him win it on his own He is in awesome form.

 

[Gloin22]

Goss has normally been really fit and riding fast this early in the season but last year he made a conscious decision to back off the early season and try a different build up to be peaking at the TdF. Even though he had a consistent year I think he was somewhat disappointed in how it panned out and has come back to his "normal" strategy. He has come from a heavy winter training package in Europe and hit that 41C day in the Herald Sun Tour last week and has since got quite a few miles in his legs. I think OGE see him as a better option to take on the might of Greipel than Mathews.
.

But Matthews is and looks in much better shape. 3rd in TT ? For a sprinter that's amazing ( i know he was quite decent at U23 in TT's though so no massive surprise, but still good feat ) Clearly fastest today out of the bunch. He looks to be on top.

Of course Goss might become better in 1 week, and it's clear who's best sprinter with both of them at similar forms. But the sprinter on forms seemed to be Matthews by long shot so far.

Ommission of Meyer is less of problem, as they have Clarke and Gerrans. Both possible winners.

 

[theyoungest]

But Matthews is and looks in much better shape. 3rd in TT ? For a sprinter that's amazing ( i know he was quite decent at U23 in TT's though so no massive surprise, but still good feat ) Clearly fastest today out of the bunch. He looks to be on top.

He was also 3d at the TT nationals in his first pro year.

Of course Goss might become better in 1 week, and it's clear who's best sprinter with both of them at similar forms. But the sprinter on forms seemed to be Matthews by long shot so far.

Matthews is really quite fast, if he gets some more balls in the sprint I don't think he'll do worse than Goss.

 

[Wilba60]

No doubt that Mathews is in great form and riding fast but not sure we can compare him and Goss at the moment as Goss has been using Herald Sun Tour and Nationals as training/racing rides rather than competing to win. Watching the National RR yesterday Goss was with the main peleton till the final climb, so he seems to be going pretty well.

It will be interesting to see how they use Mathews this year. They have sprinters who are suited to different terrains with Kroupis (flat), Goss and Howard (rolling hills) Davis and Mathews (hillier terrains) and then Docker, Vaitkus, Impey and Keukeleire who can pinch hit at different times. Mathews may be the one they send out with Baden Cooke in the tougher type one day and small stage races.

 

[Tuarts]

When does the rest of UNISA get announce? Should be Van Der Ploeg, Will Walker and Bernie Sulzberger based on RR results.

 

[greenedge]

That seems to be a good selection for the UNISA squad @Tuarts.

@Wilba: I feel that OGE have such sprinting depth that they feel assured they can pick up wins during the year. And unlike last year they will have the team to support Goss and i am sure he will be fine come the TDU. This year he should have a crack at MSR/G-W and still be good for the Giro and TDF.

I would personally prefer for Goss to just focus on the Classics then do the TDF- which would give riders like Kroupis, Howard, Davis and Matthews more chances but Goss probably wants the confirmation that he can go well at a GT beforehand.

 

[CQmanager]

Average stage length is 126km.

126km? Definitely not worth of WT status and the "early season" excuse is pretty lame too. Just look at last year, nothing against Gerrans but if a rider of his caliber (great classic and one day racer) can win a stage race, the stage race is not a "World Tour" caliber as Gerrans is not exactly a "World Tour" stage race rider.

 

[Ferminal]

Your idea of the World Tour is clearly not the ACTUAL World Tour. Your problems are with the World Tour not the race.

The WT is a creation of the UCI, the concept is of no material value to most people here. You're the one comparing the TDU to the TdS because the UCI gives them the same category, yet we all know which is the superior race in all metrics. Any race can be WT if they can afford it, doesn't mean anything.

 

[Tuarts]

Your idea of the World Tour is clearly not the ACTUAL World Tour. Your problems are with the World Tour not the race.

The WT is a creation of the UCI, the concept is of no material value to most people here. You're the one comparing the TDU to the TdS because the UCI gives them the same category, yet we all know which is the superior race in all metrics. Any race can be WT if they can afford it, doesn't mean anything.

Logic is surprisingly logical.

I'd also imagine that if the racing was anything longer then it wouldn't attract the field it does. Never heard any complaints from riders about it being too short.

 

[movingtarget]

I don't think Goss has the goods to be a successful bunch sprinter in grand tours. He climbs well for a sprinter, and I think he would do better concentrating on the classics instead of green jerseys. Renshaw is probably the same. Can't compete with Cavendish and the elite bunch sprinters.

 

[Tuarts]

I don't think Goss has the goods to be a successful bunch sprinter in grand tours. He climbs well for a sprinter, and I think he would do better concentrating on the classics instead of green jerseys. Renshaw is probably the same. Can't compete with Cavendish and the elite bunch sprinters.

Goss' palmares in a GT, try and remember he was a team-mate of the best sprinter in the world for two years.

2010
Giro d'Italia
1st - Stage 9
2nd - Stage 2

Vuelta a Espana
3rd - Stage 12
5th - Stage 21

2011
Tour de France
2nd Stage 6

Vuelta a Espana
DNF'ed Stage 2

World Champs
2nd

2012
Giro D'Italia
1st - Stage 3
2nd - Stages 2,5
6th - Stage 13

Tour de France
2nd Stages 5,18
3rd Stages 2,6,20
4th Stage 4
5-10th Stage 12


Please show what in that palmares indicates he can't compete in a Grand Tour sprint.

 

[the asian]

126km? Definitely not worth of WT status and the "early season" excuse is pretty lame too. Just look at last year, nothing against Gerrans but if a rider of his caliber (great classic and one day racer) can win a stage race, the stage race is not a "World Tour" caliber as Gerrans is not exactly a "World Tour" stage race rider.

Tierriano Adriatico has been won by classic specialists even in the recent past.
Does it make less of a prestigious event than say Pais Vasco whose winners have been traditionally stage racers and climbers?

TDU is quite worthy of WT status and considering the heat in Australia around this time, and it's slot in the season, the length of stages are quite appropriate.

 

[Dundee]

Tuarts. When does the rest of UNISA get announce? Should be Van Der Ploeg, Will Walker and Bernie Sulzberger based on RR results.

I think they will take another U23, so that should be Jordan Kerby. Bernie should get a run, not based on the result, but on how he rode. The last position could go to anyone, there were many great rides, looking at results does not tell you how well someone went, just how they finished. Could be anyone one of 10+ riders who had an outstanding race but didn't finish in the top 10.

 

[movingtarget]

Goss' palmares in a GT, try and remember he was a team-mate of the best sprinter in the world for two years.

2010
Giro d'Italia
1st - Stage 9
2nd - Stage 2

Vuelta a Espana
3rd - Stage 12
5th - Stage 21

2011
Tour de France
2nd Stage 6

Vuelta a Espana
DNF'ed Stage 2

World Champs
2nd

2012
Giro D'Italia
1st - Stage 3
2nd - Stages 2,5
6th - Stage 13

Tour de France
2nd Stages 5,18
3rd Stages 2,6,20
4th Stage 4
5-10th Stage 12


Please show what in that palmares indicates he can't compete in a Grand Tour sprint.

Plenty of placings and not many wins. Yes he can compete but often positions himself badly and when he does get placed he is often beaten easily. He can obviously sprint, I just think he does it better in smaller groups and in classics, sometimes, Cavendish is already out the back. In 2012 he seemed to have lost some of his bunch kick speed. Maybe also illness or just out of form. I just think Greipel, Cavendish and Sagan are better at the moment and Degenkolb is improving.

 

[theyoungest]

126km? Definitely not worth of WT status and the "early season" excuse is pretty lame too. Just look at last year, nothing against Gerrans but if a rider of his caliber (great classic and one day racer) can win a stage race, the stage race is not a "World Tour" caliber as Gerrans is not exactly a "World Tour" stage race rider.

What constitutes a World Tour stage race rider? Does Lars Boom conform to the characteristics? Does Michael Albasini?

Gerrans narrowly beat Valverde... if he had won, would this have been a legitimate WT stage race?

I don't think Goss has the goods to be a successful bunch sprinter in grand tours. He climbs well for a sprinter, and I think he would do better concentrating on the classics instead of green jerseys. Renshaw is probably the same. Can't compete with Cavendish and the elite bunch sprinters.

Comparing Goss and Renshaw is a bit flattering for the latter. Goss has had a lacklustre year, and given his form building the TDF team around him wasn't the best of ideas, but he's still one of the most talented sprinters around.

 

[Wilba60]

Great backstage pass from Orica, check it out of you are interested in the Australian National Champs from the OGE team car and bus, as well as a few interviews.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ayx23RhOq8E&feature=youtu.be

 

[Tuarts]

Other top sprinters being better =/= ability to compete with them.

 

[seaby71]

I have watched goss closely for a few years now. It is clear to me that he isn't the best in trusting his team when they are leading him out. He keeps pulling out of the slip stream to look ahead and then pulls back in, thus waisting energy and not showing any confidence in his lead out. At times he leaves his lead out to follow no one just so he can have a clear run, often to far out and then fades Before the line and thus overtaken. That's where cav is so good , he locks in and fires when his lead out man gives him the signal. Greipel is also good at this. Goss should concentrate on the classics where a lead out train isn't possible for many team most of the time , and he can use his pure speed man on man where he would be much more successful.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

So Orica dumps Matthews for TDU?
Well gotta get Goss back in business, so perhaps a wise decision.

 

[Wilba60]

I have watched goss closely for a few years now. It is clear to me that he isn't the best in trusting his team when they are leading him out. He keeps pulling out of the slip stream to look ahead and then pulls back in, thus waisting energy and not showing any confidence in his lead out. At times he leaves his lead out to follow no one just so he can have a clear run, often to far out and then fades Before the line and thus overtaken. That's where cav is so good , he locks in and fires when his lead out man gives him the signal. Greipel is also good at this. Goss should concentrate on the classics where a lead out train isn't possible for many team most of the time , and he can use his pure speed man on man where he would be much more successful.

Goss has really only had one year (in a brand new team) as the dedicated sprinter, so there is plenty of leeway for him to get that working much better. Why is it with sprinters if you aren't number 1 you should give it away and reestablish yourself as a different type of rider? If we looked at the top 6 GC riders, mountain climbers or one day riders we aren't calling for them to try riding a different way or genre, so why do some call this for sprinters. Wouldn't it be a bit boring if we just left the big sprints to Cav and Greipel? I love watching the big gun sprinters go at it, Goss, Kittel, Sagan (if he keeps sprinting), Bos, Renshaw et al are needed to make the sprints interesting IMO.

I also think that this Goss pre-season is a lot more like his pre OGE preparation and we might see a quicker and hungrier version this year. Watch out for Impey, he was super impressive last year and hopefully he comes back strong from his crash last year.

 

[Dundee]

UniSA-Australia

181. HOWSON Damien
182. DEMPSTER Zakkari
183. GIACOPPO Anthony
184. PHELAN Adam
185. SULZBERGER Bernard
186. KERBY Jordan
187. WATSON Calvin

 

[Ruudz0r]

Cannondale's line up is disappointing

Agostini
Salerno
Wurf
Canuti
Marangoni
Sagan (Juraj)
Vandborg

 

[biker jk]

Goss has really only had one year (in a brand new team) as the dedicated sprinter, so there is plenty of leeway for him to get that working much better. Why is it with sprinters if you aren't number 1 you should give it away and reestablish yourself as a different type of rider? If we looked at the top 6 GC riders, mountain climbers or one day riders we aren't calling for them to try riding a different way or genre, so why do some call this for sprinters. Wouldn't it be a bit boring if we just left the big sprints to Cav and Greipel? I love watching the big gun sprinters go at it, Goss, Kittel, Sagan (if he keeps sprinting), Bos, Renshaw et al are needed to make the sprints interesting IMO.

I also think that this Goss pre-season is a lot more like his pre OGE preparation and we might see a quicker and hungrier version this year. Watch out for Impey, he was super impressive last year and hopefully he comes back strong from his crash last year.

I think the point is that Goss just doesn't have the smarts to win the sprints against teams with lead outs. Having watched him for a few years now I tend to agree. His positioning and/or timing is often terrible.

 

[movingtarget]

What constitutes a World Tour stage race rider? Does Lars Boom conform to the characteristics? Does Michael Albasini?

Gerrans narrowly beat Valverde... if he had won, would this have been a legitimate WT stage race?


Comparing Goss and Renshaw is a bit flattering for the latter. Goss has had a lacklustre year, and given his form building the TDF team around him wasn't the best of ideas, but he's still one of the most talented sprinters around.

I will conceed that one. Renshaw was always more impressive as a lead out man and he will rarely beat one of the elite sprinters while Goss, may, from time to time but not on 2012 form.