2013 Tour de France, Stage 15: Givors - Mont Ventoux 242.5 Km

[Cimber]

MONT VENTOUX (last 15.65 km [from St. Esteve], 8.74 %, 1368 m)

----TOP 50 LIST

-1. Lance Armstrong ______ USA | 48:33 | 2002
-2. Chris Froome _________ GBR | 48:35 | 2013
-3. Andy Schleck _________ LUX | 48.57 | 2009
-4. Alberto Contador _____ ESP | 48:57 | 2009
-5. Lance Armstrong ______ USA | 49:00 | 2009
-6. Marco Pantani ________ ITA | 49:01 | 2000
-7. Lance Armstrong ______ USA | 49:01 | 2000
-8. Frank Schleck ________ LUX | 49:02 | 2009
-9. Nairo Quintana _______ COL | 49:04 | 2013
10. Roman Kreuziger ______ CZE | 49:05 | 2009

And the headwin was really strong yesterday too

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I don't understand the fascination with times at all. Unless the best time is by several minutes, it doesn't mean much on its own as there's just too many variables.

How long was each stage, how hard was it ridden up until that point, how many riders in the group, what's the temperature, what about the wind, what was happening with the GC at that point? What pillows were they sleeping on, did they have mood lighting on the bus? And so on.

In '09, Contador/Schleck spent half the time looking at each other and they're still faster than '00 Pantani/Armstrong who spent the whole time trying to gap one another. What does that mean?

Like I said, not much.

probably one of the wisest posts around

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

The TV commentators were almost speechless and eventhough they tried, they couldnt really hide what they were thinking.

if it's one thing we know sure it's that tv commentators know cycling really well

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

It would be ingratitude not to use his team to their full capacity. Certainly, him following Quintana's attacks, and let catch them whoever can, would cause a lot of fireworks. Perhaps, however, Quintana displays touch too much eagerness to handle everything on his own, enjoys chasing down the breakaway riders one by one, or is simply in a different position within his team than is Froome.

quintana simply can't stand slow pace and attacks when he feels like it, this is often the case with colombian riders. in colombian races a climb is done from the start at 100% pace and you can either follow or not. very different from europe, which is why colombians have such an easy time relatively in european climbing and like to attack often, because that's their nature

 

[Christian]

The TV commentators were almost speechless and eventhough they tried, they couldnt really hide what they were thinking.

"C'est surréaliste" - Cédric Vasseur, former pro and now commentator at France 2, when Froome attacked.

On another note, I don't know if this has been discussed before - but we saw Froome and Porte receive a bag with food and drinks from a soigneur at 10k to go. However, this is prohibited after the 20k to go mark. Does anyone know if they will be punished for this?

 

[LaFlorecita]

"C'est surréaliste" - Cédric Vasseur, former pro and now commentator at France 2, when Froome attacked.

On another note, I don't know if this has been discussed before - but we saw Froome and Porte receive a bag with food and drinks from a soigneur at 10k to go. However, this is prohibited after the 20k to go mark. Does anyone know if they will be punished for this?

Probs a fine. Haven't heard anything about it.

 

[Gloin22]

Probs a fine. Haven't heard anything about it.

Nope. The bag only had drinks. And that's allowed.

There was no food there. At least that's what people say.

 

[ToreBear]

"C'est surréaliste" - Cédric Vasseur, former pro and now commentator at France 2, when Froome attacked.

On another note, I don't know if this has been discussed before - but we saw Froome and Porte receive a bag with food and drinks from a soigneur at 10k to go. However, this is prohibited after the 20k to go mark. Does anyone know if they will be punished for this?

The Norwegian Eurosport commentator said IIRC something about this being allowed much later on this stage. Also I think the 20k mark applies to flat stages only.

I think they had the feeding stage right on a km marker or something, so I think they were well within the rules.

 

[ToreBear]

I don't understand the fascination with times at all. Unless the best time is by several minutes, it doesn't mean much on its own as there's just too many variables.

How long was each stage, how hard was it ridden up until that point, how many riders in the group, what's the temperature, what about the wind, what was happening with the GC at that point? What pillows were they sleeping on, did they have mood lighting on the bus? And so on.

In '09, Contador/Schleck spent half the time looking at each other and they're still faster than '00 Pantani/Armstrong who spent the whole time trying to gap one another. What does that mean?

Like I said, not much.

Good post!

 

[wwabbit]

"C'est surréaliste" - Cédric Vasseur, former pro and now commentator at France 2, when Froome attacked.

On another note, I don't know if this has been discussed before - but we saw Froome and Porte receive a bag with food and drinks from a soigneur at 10k to go. However, this is prohibited after the 20k to go mark. Does anyone know if they will be punished for this?

A quick check of the rulebook says that fixed position supplies can be handed out at any officially designated fixed stations, while feeding from vehicles can only be done up to 20km mark.

The soigneur was most probably positioned at an officialy designated station.

 

[Carstenbf]

I don't understand the fascination with times at all. Unless the best time is by several minutes, it doesn't mean much on its own as there's just too many variables.

Well that's the whole point isn't it fgs.

I'm having trouble imagining how a Ventoux stage could be ridden much harder than yesterday. And at 241 km, it's also the longest route in decades. The only unknown in this respect would be wind conditions, as it seems people can't even reach agreement on that.

Personally I don't give a hoot about the times or the wattages. I just use my eyes, and years of experience watching cycling.

 

[Hautacam2000]

They were allowed to receive food and drink until Chalet Reynard

 

[Christian]

A quick check of the rulebook says that fixed position supplies can be handed out at any officially designated fixed stations, while feeding from vehicles can only be done up to 20km mark.

The soigneur was most probably positioned at an officialy designated station.

Ah OK, thanks for clearing that up!

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

"C'est surréaliste" - Cédric Vasseur, former pro and now commentator at France 2, when Froome attacked.

On another note, I don't know if this has been discussed before - but we saw Froome and Porte receive a bag with food and drinks from a soigneur at 10k to go. However, this is prohibited after the 20k to go mark. Does anyone know if they will be punished for this?

obviously not prohibited on a mountainfinish

 

[The Hitch]

Could he be clean? I guess. But that would mean CF is far and away the worlds best cyclist. )

Not just worlds best cyclist now. Greatest ever. The only people that have come close to the performances he has were half human half experiment. No natural performances come close.

 

[murali]

oops. i thought this was clinic

 

[spalco]

Not just worlds best cyclist now. Greatest ever. The only people that have come close to the performances he has were half human half experiment. No natural performances come close.

That's an exaggeration I think.

Froome's palmares aren't that great yet, and I'm sure you'll have no problem at all finding individual performances from guys like Merckx, Coppi, De Vlaeminck, etc that were very exceptional also.

 

[The Hitch]

That's an exaggeration I think.

Froome's palmares aren't that great yet, and I'm sure you'll have no problem at all finding individual performances from guys like Merckx, Coppi, De Vlaeminck, etc that were very exceptional also.

Thats like saying Jesse Owens was better than Bolt. Yes he won more but when you look at the times Bolt is way way faster. Similarly Froome goes faster uphill than any of those guys in their peaks.

Thats what i mean by greatest ever. Obviously palmares wise he wont be, but on physiological output level, if he is clean then he is lightyears ahead of any other human being.

 

[DenisMenchov]

Obviously Froome is the greatest sportsman that ever lived. It's not only that he is by far the best climber, but he is also the 3rd best TTer. It's like Bolt winning the gold medal at 100m and then come close second in the marathon. Froome is just simply unbelievable.

 

[spalco]

Thats like saying Jesse Owens was better than Bolt. Yes he won more but when you look at the times Bolt is way way faster. Similarly Froome goes faster uphill than any of those guys in their peaks.

Thats what i mean by greatest ever. Obviously palmares wise he wont be, but on physiological output level, if he is clean then he is lightyears ahead of any other human being.

Ok, I see. From that point of view you could be right (assuming cleanliness).

But, without wanting to get too philosophical, I do disagree with the premise. Any middlish English Championship team would easily (imo) beat 1956 Real Madrid simply based on athleticism, but that comparison would obviously be nonsense.

eta: thinking about it again, maybe not the best analogy either, because cycling has probably changed less than football in that timeframe; but still.

 

[petiagos]

Europcar .... what a joke in this day
Pierre Roland - what a joke in this day

Jesus ....

 

[wwabbit]

Obviously Froome is the greatest sportsman that ever lived. It's not only that he is by far the best climber, but he is also the 3rd best TTer. It's like Bolt winning the gold medal at 100m and then come close second in the marathon. Froome is just simply unbelievable.

Erm... there have been plenty of GT winners that have won both MTFs and ranked top 3 (or even win outright) in TTs, so obviously there are some similar characteristics of riders that perform well in both events.

I'd say it would be more like winning both the 100m and Long Jump.

 

[Dave-L]

And the headwin was really strong yesterday too

Did you actually watch the race?

The wind below the tree line was light, due to... shelter from tall trees! Perfect conditions in fact. Above the tree line the wind was stronger and was either left-to-right or a tailwind (depending on the road zigzags). The final steep climb to the finish was a tailwind. Look at the flags flares and kilometre banners, and listen to the ITV commentary!

Some people in here seem to be inventing stuff to fit the latest conspiracy theory.

 

[Speedzero]

Erm... there have been plenty of GT winners that have won both MTFs and ranked top 3 (or even win outright) in TTs

Examples? I mean other than riders that have subsequently been determined to be doping. I mean, the first names that come to my mind as meeting your description are LA and Contador.

there are some similar characteristics of riders that perform well in both events.

I thought the two disciplines were generally recognized as calling for different characteristics.

 

[UpTheRoad]

Examples? I mean other than riders that have subsequently been determined to be doping. I mean, the first names that come to my mind as meeting your description are LA and Contador.



I thought the two disciplines were generally recognized as calling for different characteristics.

Lemond and Hinault.