2013 Vuelta a España, Stage 15: Andorra → Peyragudes (224.9 Km)

[Flamin]

And we have the right to criticise their opinion.

I guess whenever my boss asks me to do a night shift on a Saturday, I can refuse by saying I got no sleep all week and I'd like to go out.

These are professional cyclists we're talking about. They earn quite a bit of money. We're not asking them to freewheel down a cliff, we're asking them to race a 155km stage in the rain and 6º and not whine about it like a five-year-old kid afterwards.

Except that you're not Valverde's boss and you don't pay his salary

 

[PeteTheSpinner]

Yeah, "safety" is not the right word. I mean we should at least respect what riders have to say when they feel the race conditions are (too) dangerous. It's ridiculous when someone says Valverde is despicable after all the DNF's we had today. These guys are no sockpuppets who have to do everything the crowd wants them to do, whatever the circumstances (not saying talking about today but in general). They have the right to voice their opinion.

The bolded part I agree with.

It's not fault of objective and reasonable posters here that your rider lost time today and probably a chance to win the race.
Get over it.

 

[Flamin]

It's not fault of objective and reasonable posters here that your rider lost time today and probably a chance to win the race.
Get over it.

I'm over it, since Valverde is not my rider

 

[Descender]

How do you know?

Because I've seen the stage.

Not that it matters. A properly dressed rider with an adequate jacket and thermal gloves has no business getting hypothermia in a stage where the lowest temperature was 6º.

Lol, well done Sir you sure have a special technique in 'challenging somebody else's views' then.

Look who's talking. Stop dancing around and answer the question.

 

[Flamin]

Because I've seen the stage.

Not that it matters. A properly dressed rider with an adequate jacket and thermal gloves has no business getting hypothermia in a stage where the lowest temperature was 6º.

Nah, you saw half the stage. Worst conditions (on Envalira) were not even shown live

Look who's talking. Stop dancing around and answer the question.

No, I'm worse

 

[Descender]

Except that you're not Valverde's boss and you don't pay his salary

Way to miss the analogy... I'll break it down:

It is unprofessional for a worker to complain about a night shift when it is known in advance.

It is unprofessional for a rider to complain about the rain and cold in a 155km stage when it is known in advance.

We don't "have to respect what riders have to say when they feel the race conditions are (too) dangerous". Just because they are riders doesn't mean they hold absolute truth when talking about cycling. What riders have to say might make a lot of sense... or it might be utter and complete bs. And in that case, we sure as hell have a right to criticise it.

 

[PeteTheSpinner]

I'm over it, since Valverde is not my rider

Oh... O.K.
Then it must be something personal.
You are really defending indefensible.

Valverde's initial reaction was obviously under influence of his loss. He didn't repeat the same words in the later statements. So it's obvious he realized he was wrong.

 

[Descender]

Nah, you saw half the stage, since worst conditions (on Envalira) were not even shown live



No, I'm worse

I guess all those riders I saw with not appropriate clothing took it off after that then...

 

[Flamin]

Way to miss the analogy... I'll break it down:

It is unprofessional for a worker to complain about a night shift when it is known in advance.

It is unprofessional for a rider to complain about the rain and cold in a 155km stage when it is known in advance.

We don't "have to respect what riders have to say when they feel the race conditions are (too) dangerous". Just because they are riders doesn't mean they hold absolute truth when talking about cycling. What riders have to say might make a lot of sense... or it might be utter and complete bs. And in that case, we sure as hell have a right to criticise it.

I never said we don't have to right to criticise it. Of course we do. But your way to do it is clearly different than mine, so whatever.

Let's just enjoy this great sport

 

[Dedelou]

Way to miss the analogy... I'll break it down:

It is unprofessional for a worker to complain about a night shift when it is known in advance.

It is unprofessional for a rider to complain about the rain and cold in a 155km stage when it is known in advance.

We don't "have to respect what riders have to say when they feel the race conditions are (too) dangerous". Just because they are riders doesn't mean they hold absolute truth when talking about cycling. What riders have to say might make a lot of sense... or it might be utter and complete bs. And in that case, we sure as hell have a right to criticise it.

You are right in that "they knew what was coming to them" and so as pro had to prepare for it. However, I think you used Valverde comments, given right after a race which he called " the worst day on bike" to insult him because you don't like him. It is evident to most that heated responses in interviews on the moment are what they are and especially in this case, do not reflect the fact He rode the stage with courage and did not give up. Reporters love that sh@#$t because it gives them prominence after they huddle for hours waiting for the racers to arrive. To be honest, I never think it is ever unprofessional to complain, it is a right we all have. But I am with you on this: The day they cancel races on account of those complaints will be the day I stop watching cycling.

 

[Contadoraus Schlecks]

The only pro cyclist who would, maybe, qualify for such a description would be Andy Schleck.

You simply cannot finish second or better in four GT's and not be a hard man. Some riders simply have different thresholds for the cold / extreme conditions.

 

[Alpechraxler]

I see a lot of potential in improving safety simply by using alloy rims with better break power instead of the carbon crap. Clothing can be a pain in the ***..

 

[Random Direction]

Good chance of no live feed tomorrow - thunderstorms

 

[MatParker117]

Why isn't warm weather clothing mandatory after you reach a certain altitude?

 

[manafana]

I see a lot of potential in improving safety simply by using alloy rims with better break power instead of the carbon crap. Clothing can be a pain in the ***..

firstly point above was key one as i watched ratto decend i thought myself id probably keep up the way he had crawl down as touching his breaks was a risk with those wheels.

secondly its insane how many people don't think a day in the rain is easy, its fine on flat but being soaked to the bone descending is just insane you will get cold. No jacket bar maybe a gabba is going keep you bone dry, shoe covers and gloves will absorb water with how heavy the rain was this morning. Some riders actually stopped got in car and got changed.

Garate said he got into team car and at in heated seat for bit to warm up. Their was no need to cancel stage but rider health has to be considered unless we want them back to days of old doing what they need to do.

Now back to stage 15 it looks like a day in hell

 

[Broth3r]

Sounds rather ridiculous to call Valverde a weakling today of all days, after he clawed his way back up the group the way he did.

Cancelling or shortening the stage is obviously a big no-no. I don't think that's what he meant anyway. Words of occasion, nothing more.

 

[skidmark]

Way to miss the analogy... I'll break it down:

It is unprofessional for a worker to complain about a night shift when it is known in advance.

It is unprofessional for a rider to complain about the rain and cold in a 155km stage when it is known in advance.

We don't "have to respect what riders have to say when they feel the race conditions are (too) dangerous". Just because they are riders doesn't mean they hold absolute truth when talking about cycling. What riders have to say might make a lot of sense... or it might be utter and complete bs. And in that case, we sure as hell have a right to criticise it.

I like reading a lot of things you have to comment on, Descender, but I have to disagree with you here. Your analogy doesn't seem to fit for me - yes it's 'unprofessional' for someone to complain about a shift at a time they wouldn't normally do it if they knew about it in advance, but I don't think staying up at night is really comparable to the work conditions of being forced to be outside in the cold for hours. Granted I haven't seen and couldn't translate full Spanish of what Valverde said, but the English version seems to read like this: he felt terrible, conditions were terrible, some riders had to quit because of hypothermia and that sucks. I don't disagree with any of this. If I worked a night shift and I was interviewed by the media after it for some reason, and they asked how my day/night was, I'd probably say that I was tired and I needed some sleep and that I didn't feel good. That wouldn't be unprofessional or complaining about my work, that would just be answering a question truthfully, right?

I dunno, just seems a bit hyperbolic to call people 'pussies' for feeling physically bad and talking about it honestly.

 

[willbick]

Jeez that Descender guy talks some cr@p. How can he seriously criticize these guys for getting cold and having a bit of a moan! Id love to see him tackle a cold mountain stage in the ****ing rain with long 50mph+ descents (ever heard of wind chill?) and 5% body fat. There's only so much that clothing can do for you. Yeah we can all wrap up warm and go for a little spin on a chilly day. Its not quite the same as what these guys were doing. Chapeau to all the riders who made the finish and good luck for tomorrow!

 

[Rajna31]

Any ideas about the KOM? Txurruka seems to want it but so far he couldn't collect many points. He can make it up tomorrow though.

I guess Gilbert doesn't care about it, but Ratto could give it a go on this stage. The first climb is not too steep and is right after the start, so he can take the points there and just relax. If he could make it to the Bonaigua, he could have 50 points which is massive considering that there's only one 1st cat and no HC climb during the last week other than the finishes.

If he could do that, he would practically eliminate any breakaway opposition. But there's Horner and also Nibali, they can collect a lot of points at the MTFs.

My guess is that Horner takes it in the end, but I bet Txurruka will be eager to be in the break and take as many points as he can today. My guess is that Ratto won't be able to go after the effort in Andorra, so it's going to be a "fight" between Horner and Txurruka.

 

[Ruby United]

Another breakaway, but Nibali and Horner to blow away the rest.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Valverde *****ing about the inhumane stages and the weather, asks for tomorrow's stage to be cancelled.

Nevermind he's the only rider to have won where the stage ends tomorrow.

He is such a despicable rider.

This. +10000

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Jeez that Descender guy talks some cr@p. How can he seriously criticize these guys for getting cold and having a bit of a moan! Id love to see him tackle a cold mountain stage in the ****ing rain with long 50mph+ descents (ever heard of wind chill?) and 5% body fat. There's only so much that clothing can do for you. Yeah we can all wrap up warm and go for a little spin on a chilly day. Its not quite the same as what these guys were doing. Chapeau to all the riders who made the finish and good luck for tomorrow!

Well, dude, honestly, I've done it. It's hell. Pure hell. Police cars all over the place throwing blankets on racers. I was shivering so hard, it took 30 minutes for my legs to stop shaking uncontrollably. One rider needed 3 people to pry his frozen hands from the bars.

Yep, it's not fun. But Valverde is a pro. He has an entire team dedicated to him. Cold? Get the team to give you a jacket. Dude needs to STFU. There are people making 1/10000 of his salary digging for coal. F*ck Valverde.

 

[jaylew]

Agreed that Decender's post was weak and obviously largely influenced by the fact that he just doesn't like him. Same above. Nothing at all wrong with what he said.

 

[hfer07]

Weather proof Lo Squalo could well put the last nail in the coffin. If they suffered yestarday-today is second round of the purgatory- that distance is insane in combination with the nasty weather-so gaps will get wider

 

[Netserk]

IMO it's quite simple. If you don't want to be cold or ride in the rain, there's always the track for you.