2014 Cleanest Peloton Ever

[Benotti69]

Of course there is no context, the only people who compare single day climbing times without context are trying to push a certain agenda as always.

Oh really. Can you point to my agenda in the post comparing times?

Can you point to how anti doping is more effective in 2014 than it was in 1998?

At least in '98 they caught Pantani

 

[pmcg76]

To me it shows the doping is more regulated across the peloton.

They all put pineapple juice in their bidons now........

But if we look at Froome, he could well be taking huge amounts of PEDs that are undetectable similar to Pantani and Riis.

No it shows a peloton that arrived at the foot of a climb together having scaled no previous climbs and with guys like Rogers setting tempo for a lot of the climb. Of course they will be closer together when they are relatively fresh.

 

[Benotti69]

No it shows a peloton that arrived at the foot of a climb together having scaled no previous climbs and with guys like Rogers setting tempo for a lot of the climb. Of course they will be closer together when they are relatively fresh.

Nobody races anymore...........

 

[pmcg76]

Oh really. Can you point to my agenda in the post comparing times?

Can you point to how anti doping is more effective in 2014 than it was in 1998?

At least in '98 they caught Pantani

None of that has any relevance to what you are trying to demonstrate by comparing times. It is irrelevant.

I think everyone knows your agenda without me having to point it out.

 

[Benotti69]

None of that has any relevance to what you are trying to demonstrate by comparing times. It is irrelevant.

I think everyone knows your agenda without me having to point it out.

My 'agenda' as you put it, is doping is part of the fabric of the sport. Until someone can show me where the monumental change happened to change that i cant see why people would believe it has changed, just because JV says so!

 

[pmcg76]

My 'agenda' as you put it, is doping is part of the fabric of the sport. Until someone can show me where the monumental change happened to change that i cant see why people would believe it has changed, just because JV says so!

Benotti posts times to show how things are still as bad as in the EPO days. Someone else shows how these times are 'doctored' to fit this agenda and how if anything they might show how things have improved regards doping.

When shown up, Benotti as usual reverts to bot mode.

No culture change, Blah, blah, blah, JV says so,blah, blah, blah.

Don't post nonsense and then you won't have people show it up for what it is.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Aru = new generation = no doping.
Pay attention

 

[Benotti69]

Aru = new generation = no doping.
Pay attention

Since when

 

[Benotti69]

Benotti posts times to show how things are still as bad as in the EPO days. Someone else shows how these times are 'doctored' to fit this agenda and how if anything they might show how things have improved regards doping.

When shown up, Benotti as usual reverts to bot mode.

No culture change, Blah, blah, blah, JV says so,blah, blah, blah.

Don't post nonsense and then you won't have people show it up for what it is.

pmcg76 cant point to where the sport got clean, yet criticises anyone who calls it dirty top to bottom.

anti doping a joke, all the doping docs (even those banned) are still working in the sport, doping DS still there......but you for some reason, like a love sick fanboy, believe it got clean.....great....

....and the team who said they were going to be clean and transparent, the most obvious doping team of them all.

 

[Benotti69]

In 2014 we are seeing Pantani lauded as a sporting hero at this years Giro.

Yep this sport has changed. Bet no one ripped out the photo of Pantani from the Giro road book.

I mean if Pantani's a hero so is Di Luca, managed to get caught all those times and comeback and do it again.

 

[Afrank]

Since when

Since always, Angels don't dope.

 

[Benotti69]

Since always, Angels don't dope.

Neither do unicorns....

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Since when

Since some of us wanted it to be true.

 

[pmcg76]

pmcg76 cant point to where the sport got clean, yet criticises anyone who calls it dirty top to bottom.

anti doping a joke, all the doping docs (even those banned) are still working in the sport, doping DS still there......but you for some reason, like a love sick fanboy, believe it got clean.....great....

....and the team who said they were going to be clean and transparent, the most obvious doping team of them all.

You can claim whatever you want but at least back it up with some actual facts instead of trying to 'doctor' things to make your point. The question is? why are you so desperate to prove things have not changed, that you try to manipulate the facts? If things are as bad as you suggest, let the facts speak for themselves instead of constantly trying to push your agenda by lying.

I don't know where you get this idea I believe the sport is clean. If you can find anywhere I said that, it would be a start. I am open minded to all possibilites which you are clearly not, that is the difference. In particular I am interested in trying to figure out what might be possible for a potentially clean athlete rather than loving/hating on any particular team or rider.

I would laugh as much at someone who "knows" the sport is totally clean as much as you "know" it is totally dirty. You have zero connection with the sport and have no interest in what anyone says unless it matches your mindset yet you "know" the sport is dirty top to bottom. That is one warped mentality right there and no matter how many times you repeat your case, that won't change.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

This is a proper *** performance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52xv2Hg2fkI

I can find a few involving Contador this year as well.

The Shark had one or two in last year's giro.

Aru's performance considering the overall parcours and how the first 14 stages were raced doesn't come close to some of the stuff we have seen recently.

Aru could still be a doper of course especially considering his team and the people operating it.

All my opinion.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

This is a proper *** performance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52xv2Hg2fkI

I can find a few involving Contador this year as well.

The Shark had one or two in last year's giro.

Aru's performance considering the overall parcours and how the first 14 stages were raced doesn't come close to some of the stuff we have seen recently.

Aru could still be a doper of course especially considering his team and the people operating it.

All my opinion.

In absolute terms yes, but in relative terms, relative to himself last year, he's making a large jump imo.

 

[Samson777]

Since always, Angels don't dope.

Ever heard of Angels with dirty faces?

 

[Benotti69]

You can claim whatever you want but at least back it up with some actual facts instead of trying to 'doctor' things to make your point. The question is? why are you so desperate to prove things have not changed, that you try to manipulate the facts? If things are as bad as you suggest, let the facts speak for themselves instead of constantly trying to push your agenda by lying.

Plenty of facts. UCI still police the sport. Fact.

Anti doping doing less testing than ever before. Fact.

The people who enabled doping still in the sport. Fact

Anti doping way under funded, so much so it is a joke. Fact

And on and on.......

I don't know where you get this idea I believe the sport is clean. If you can find anywhere I said that, it would be a start. I am open minded to all possibilites which you are clearly not, that is the difference. In particular I am interested in trying to figure out what might be possible for a potentially clean athlete rather than loving/hating on any particular team or rider.

Whn we know that nice guys dope how the hell are you going find out who is clean?

When teams offer complete transparency and call out those who dont, we can start looking deeper to see if they back up what they are showing and saying.

Can you point to any?

I would laugh as much at someone who "knows" the sport is totally clean as much as you "know" it is totally dirty. You have zero connection with the sport and have no interest in what anyone says unless it matches your mindset yet you "know" the sport is dirty top to bottom. That is one warped mentality right there and no matter how many times you repeat your case, that won't change.

The only reason guys like you think the sport is not dirty top to bottom is because of stupid comments from the likes of JV, the 'new generation' are too cool to dope! What a pile BS that is.

Garmin released the GT profiles of Wiggins '09 and Hesjdeal '12 and both were suspicious in the 3rd week and when JV was questioned on it, he conveniently blamed machine error! FFS.

My mentality is based on logic. Very few survive in the sport without PEDs as has been shown. Can you point to where that has changed?

Too many are thinking that EPO is no longer in big use so riders have stopped doping. Bollix, they have moved on to other methods and substances. It has ever been thus. Too many people make to much money feeding doping. The riders are the last stop in a long journey where lots make a big profit from doping. These people keep searching for new methods and undetectable substances to push.

Till the riders cannot afford to take the risk, doping will not stop.

Look at the reasoned decision. Not one of them had to pay the money they won from doping back. Armstrong is not asked to pay back his winnings either. He is being sued by people he defrauded, but all his winnings still in his bank account. Why not dope?

 

[Ferminal]

Aru was super talented as a doped up amateur so it's possible he may be clean now, or something like that. I mean clean Dombrowski probably could have taken out Pantani's time given how easily he pumped him on Gavia.

 

[Von Mises]

Oh really. Can you point to my agenda in the post comparing times?

Can you point to how anti doping is more effective in 2014 than it was in 1998?

In 2014 they have EPO test, in 1998 not.
In 2014 they have BP, in 1998 not.

Today there are much more doping tests. I cannot compare 2014 and 1998 directlu, but in 2012 (latest data) they made ca 14 000 tests, including 6600 OOC tests. For instance in 2003 they made 5200 tests all together. In 2006 they made 8200 doping tests, including 160(!) OOC tests and 2700 so called pre competition tests. Dont have numbers for 1998, but pretty sure these were much lower.

So, your claim

Anti doping doing less testing than ever before. Fact.

is not a fact, but blatant lie.

 

[Benotti69]

In 2014 they have EPO test, in 1998 not.
In 2014 they have BP, in 1998 not.

Today there are much more doping tests. I cannot compare 2014 and 1998 directlu, but in 2012 (latest data) they made ca 14 000 tests, including 6600 OOC tests. For instance in 2003 they made 5200 tests all together. In 2006 they made 8200 doping tests, including 160(!) OOC tests and 2700 so called pre competition tests. Dont have numbers for 1998, but pretty sure these were much lower.

So, your claim is not a fact, but blatant lie.

That is why Ashenden left it! That is how they caught Horner, Armstrong et al!

Plenty have talked about not being tested. BP tests not done in Colombia till this year! UKAD did no blood testing in 2012!

You can believe that BP changed doping, it did, it meant programs needed to be rethought logistically. Kohl talked about how the BP made it easier to dope.

Not a lie. If the tests were so effective why is their a CIRC to look into doping.

 

[Benotti69]

http://iconosquare.com/p/728384307780958193_28664140

 

[Dear Wiggo]

In 2014 they have EPO test, in 1998 not.
In 2014 they have BP, in 1998 not.

Today there are much more doping tests. I cannot compare 2014 and 1998 directlu, but in 2012 (latest data) they made ca 14 000 tests, including 6600 OOC tests. For instance in 2003 they made 5200 tests all together. In 2006 they made 8200 doping tests, including 160(!) OOC tests and 2700 so called pre competition tests. Dont have numbers for 1998, but pretty sure these were much lower.

So, your claim is not a fact, but blatant lie.

There are 3 possibilties:

1. incomplete data (works for both years)
2. less doping (bahahahahhahahahaa ahem)
3. anti-doping is now less effective than it was in 1998 (most likely imo)

Positive tests registered on dopeology.com:

1998: 30 matches for your search

2013: 18 matches for your search

That's a 40% reduction in positive tests, despite the alleged increase in testing.

Dopers are improving year on year. Testing is not keeping up.

The problem with your raw numbers is LA never tested positive. Khol only tested positive once. etc.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

The problem with your raw numbers is LA never tested positive.

Apart from the fact that he did.

 

[Von Mises]

That is why Ashenden left it! That is how they caught Horner, Armstrong et al!

Plenty have talked about not being tested. BP tests not done in Colombia till this year! UKAD did no blood testing in 2012!

You can believe that BP changed doping, it did, it meant programs needed to be rethought logistically. Kohl talked about how the BP made it easier to dope.

Not a lie. If the tests were so effective why is their a CIRC to look into doping.

I am not saying that test are effective, I do not know how effective or noneffective they are, I can speculate about it, but thats it.

Thre only thing I did, I pointed out your lie. Simple. You lied. I showed your lie.