2014: Contador vs Nibali, the official *****ing thread

[Jspear]

No, it's just the benefit of hindsight after seeing VN's performance in the mountainous part of TdF, you must wonder by what margin would've AC have to be better to pull back such advantage and how humanly feasible such performance is to occur, even taking into account shown by AC during the year? What odds would you give to AC to overcome VN's time advantage in the TdF if he didn't crash? You sound like it's a sure thing and piece of cake...

Well know one can be sure of anything that never took place. But yes, given the facts of how he was climbing throughout the year (pre crash), I'm pretty confident that he would have still won.

I'm not talking about "fan discounts" because I'm fan only of entertaining and gutsy riding, I'm talking about time. I would've been delighted if AC could nullify VN's advantage at some point during TdF because in my eyes he would've pulled quite an improbable performance and I like to be surprised.

We have another non biased fan!!

 

[cineteq]

After last Vuelta mountain stage,i'm convinced that this Contador,Vuelta version, would have never beat Nibali in Le Tour,the difference is huge.Contador,TDF version was great ,but still i don't think he could have won it,Nibali was out of this world this year.

Pretty much this.

Contador pre TDF crash >>> Contador post TDF crash

I thought your thorough research came to the conclusion the injury was not that serious, thus your statement contradicts itself. Let me fix it for you. Contador pre TDF crash = Contador post TDF crash

 

[escheator]

We have another non biased fan!!

I feel skepticism, young padawan ) Yeah, it's hard work to do your best to remove biases, cognitive ones especially, but it pays off as you grow older, if you work at it and become better at it.

I wouldn't want to watch something that can entertain and please me only if it confirms my predictions and wishes - that would be a sad loss of time.

 

[Jspear]

Pretty much this.

I thought your thorough research came to the conclusion the injury was not that serious, thus your statement contradicts itself. Let me fix it for you. Contador pre TDF crash = Contador post TDF crash

Congratulations!! (drum roll) You win the award for the most ridiculous post of the week.

 

[Red Rick]

Pretty much this.

I thought your thorough research came to the conclusion the injury was not that serious, thus your statement contradicts itself. Let me fix it for you. Contador pre TDF crash = Contador post TDF crash

lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M

 

[LaFlorecita]

Pretty much this.

I thought your thorough research came to the conclusion the injury was not that serious, thus your statement contradicts itself. Let me fix it for you. Contador pre TDF crash = Contador post TDF crash

Are you ****ing kidding me.

Sigh.

 

[cineteq]

Are you ****ing kidding me.

Sigh.

lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M

Congratulations!! (drum roll) You win the award for the most ridiculous post of the week.

What do all these guys have in common? They can't handle the truth

 

[LaFlorecita]

What do all these guys have in common? They can't handle the truth

We aren't "independent observers" ?

 

[Red Rick]

What do all these guys have in common?

they disagree with you, and therefor they're wrong ofcourse

 

[BlurryVII]

I think Pinot is equal/stronger climber than Valverde, as for Peraud, well god knows what he was doing this July.
No I don't think Nibali would have won thisVuelta with 7 min. I don't think the parcours in Spain would have made it possible for anyone to do that. What I am interested in is that on the 2 "proper" mountain stages in te Vuelta AC and Froome didn't put more time into Valverde than Nibbles in the tour.
Yes Froome and AC did push slightly higher wats while giving everything they got pretty much from the getgo,Nibbles were sleeping behind Scarponi half the climb, thought you were the champion of sound and logical arguments?

Valverde 2012: He finished the Tour 20th at +42 min, then finished 2nd at the Vuelta at ~1 min 16

Valverde 2013: finished 8th at the Tour, + 15 min from Froome
Then finished 3rd at the Vuelta, + 1 min 36 from Horner in alien form

So, will you stop comparing Valverde from the Tour and Valverde from the Vuelta?

Also, at PDBF, Nibali couldn't have done better, the gap went up to almost 20 secs and then Pinot reduced it to 15 seconds.

And you continue to ignore that fact that a short explosive climb says nothing about their abilities up Hautacam

By the way, I thought Valverde was much, MUCH better than Nibali on these kind of short explosive finishes, how come Nibali was better than him on Geradmer? Perhaps he was in crap form? Which confirms what I said.

Why are you talking about Hautacam? It's the climb which suits perfectly AC, so what's your point? That the gap would have been much bigger than at Geradmer?

 

[cineteq]

We aren't "independent observers" ?

Good answer!

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Valverde 2012: He finished the Tour 20th at +42 min, then finished 2nd at the Vuelta at ~1 min 16

Valverde 2013: finished 8th at the Tour, + 15 min from Froome
Then finished 3rd at the Vuelta, + 1 min 36 from Horner in alien form

So, will you stop comparing Valverde from the Tour and Valverde from the Vuelta?

Also, at PDBF, Nibali couldn't have done better, the gap went up to almost 20 secs and then Pinot reduced it to 15 seconds.




By the way, I thought Valverde was much, MUCH better than Nibali on these kind of short explosive finishes, how come Nibali was better than him on Geradmer? Perhaps he was in crap form? Which confirms what I said.

Why are you talking about Hautacam? It's the climb which suits perfectly AC, so what's your point? That the gap would have been much bigger than at Geradmer?

2012: back from ban. Not in great shape (compared to what we are used to) in the first half of the season, and a much better shape in the second part of the season after getting his race lags back to a 100%. Yea he was better in the Vuelta, but the explanation is not "magical improvement".

2013: Why bother? If one havent seen the race, don't use it as an argument (and if you have, rewatch it)

No I wont. Not that it is such a big deal, I just don't buy your "riders are in better shape when they meet AC, since AC couldn't beat them as easily as Nibali did" charade.

First semi mtf of the race, fresh legs on everyone. Nibali atleast won this stage. In the Vuelta Valverde won the similar stage after pulling half the climb

Yes Valverde is, it only shows how good form AC and Nibbles were in at the time that he actually cracked trying to follow them. And people allways react differently to the first stage with a hard finish (look at ullrich, or Vino. Both usually crap)

I am talking about Hautacam because that is where AC were supposed to take alot of time. Yes it fits AC perfectly, and SO DOES IT FOR NIBALI.
AC has a heavier punch in his accelerations compared to Nibali, so the fact that Nibali was so close up Geradmer is amazing.
I was expecting Nibbles to be dropped like Quintana was dropped up La Zubia, but he wasnt. In a terrain which AC usually is far superior. I think that bodes very well for Nibalis chances to defend his 2,5 minutes

 

[BlurryVII]

2013: Why bother? If one havent seen the race, don't use it as an argument (and if you have, rewatch it)

Why bother? I don't get your point, I watched the race. Valverde was better at the Vuelta 2013, end of story.

Yes Valverde is, it only shows how good form AC and Nibbles were in at the time that he actually cracked trying to follow them. And people allways react differently to the first stage with a hard finish (look at ullrich, or Vino. Both usually crap)

Porte, Pinot and Péraud finished ahead of Valverde at Gerardmer, which a short explosive climb. According to you, Valverde was as good as he was on Zubia, in the same form apparently. Do you even make sense?
I guess they were just all in amazing form, enough to surpass Valverde on explosve climbs right?

Now I'd like to see Péraud/Pinot beating Quintana, Contador, froome on Zubia, pulling all the climb.

AC has a heavier punch in his accelerations compared to Nibali, so the fact that Nibali was so close up Geradmer is amazing.

AC never went full out on Geradmer, no need to post photos over and over again.

Anyway, rant all you like, AC is a much better climber than Nibali and would have crushed him in the high mountains.
Nibali has never beaten him on a MTF (barring tirreno 13') .
Oh, apparently VN was at his peak at the Tour? Is that your argument? AC at his peak is still much better so you have nowhere to go.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Why bother? I don't get your point, I watched the race. Valverde was better at the Vuelta 2013, end of story.



Porte, Pinot and Péraud finished ahead of Valverde at Gerardmer, which a short explosive climb. And Valverde was as good as he was on Zubia. Do you even make sense?
I guess they were just all in amazing form, enough to surpass Valverde on explosve climbs right?



AC never went full out on Geradmer, no need to post photos over and over again.

Anyway, rant all you like, AC is a much better climber than Nibali and would have crushed him in the high mountains.
Nibali has never beaten him on a MTF (barring tirreno 13') .
Oh, apparently VN was at his peak at the Tour? Is that your argument? AC at his peak is still much better so you have nowhere to go.

1. You are pretty damn close 100% when you end up 4th in the tour
2. He blew himself up, staying on the wheel of Nibali for to long, the rest baring Porte went more with their own pace when AC attacked. Have you ever ridden a bike? if you hit the wall you can be the greatest athlete in the world, you still can't do much.
3. As I said earlier. How do you know that he didn't just have a bad day? On Zubia he was clearly on a really really really good day, butto you there isn't possible to have the opposite?

If you belive that AC didn't go full on Geradmer, fine. I belive that Nibali screwed up his gearing. Great lets move on,

That AC would crush him in the mountains in the tour 14 is your sentiment. Not as if you actually got any proof for that ,now do you
Yes Nibali was at his peak in the tour. Yes AC in 09 is probably one of the greatest gt riders of all time. Remind me, what does that have to do with the tour 14 again?

 

[BlurryVII]

1. You are pretty damn close 100% when you end up 4th in the tour
2. He blew himself up, staying on the wheel of Nibali for to long, the rest baring Porte went more with their own pace when AC attacked. Have you ever ridden a bike? if you hit the wall you can be the greatest athlete in the world, you still can't do much.
3. As I said earlier. How do you know that he didn't just have a bad day? On Zubia he was clearly on a really really really good day, butto you there isn't possible to have the opposite?

If you belive that AC didn't go full on Geradmer, fine. I belive that Nibali screwed up his gearing. Great lets move on,

That AC would crush him in the mountains in the tour 14 is your sentiment. Not as if you actually got any proof for that ,now do you
Yes Nibali was at his peak in the tour. Yes AC in 09 is probably one of the greatest gt riders of all time. Remind me, what does that have to do with the tour 14 again?

1. 4th at the Tour but behind 2nd tier riders like Pinot and Péraud so not at 100% given the riders he's beaten in the past.

2-3 Go rewatch Garadmer, Valverde barely stayed on Nibali's wheel when AC attacked, he resisted for like 5 seconds and cracked and got dropped by Péraud and Pinot
. On Zubia, he pulled for 2 - 3 kms then still had something left to drop CF/AC.

But yeah, according to you, that is not a question of form, it's just about having a really really really really really really really good day at the Vuelta and a very (x 100) bad day at the Tour. Sure, you're deluded.

4. As usual, talking because VN had the chance that AC crashed out so you can always use the "we'll never know argument".
I have no proof, that's true.
Just like I have no proof that AC would have beaten Péraud and Pinot or even Greipel. We will never know right?

Anyway, I won't keep arguing with you, as I'm pretty sure that you know very well inside of you that AC was in alien form, his best ever or very close to 09'.
But you're just sticking to the "we'll never know" thing instead because you're fed up of people questioning Nibali's win

 

[Publicus]

I think Contador would have taken 1'15-1'30 on Nibali in the mountains and finished him off in the long ITT. I think Nibali is a great competitor but (i) he was not pushed in any stage after stage 8 (or whichever stage contador tested Nibali's legs (Nibali failed the test) and as a result, was much fresher for the final ITT and (ii) judging from a distance, he does not recover as well as Contador over a 3 week race.