2014 Giro d'Italia, Stage 20: Maniago-Monte Zoncolan (167 Km)

[Flamin]

Yeah what Lupi and Arnout said.

Tour is always worse than the Giro and in recent years I have found the Vuelta has been more entertaining than either.

In the past 3 years, Tour > Giro imo.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

so does anyone know what was in movistar brains at the beginning of zoncolan?40 kmph, dropped even nairo?!

Fighting for positions going crazy

 

[Pentacycle]

In the past 3 years, Tour > Giro imo.

Even in 2012?

 

[hfer07]

It's not about putting minutes into the others everyday. I didn't expect him to attack on Rif. Panarotta for instance. But today he could have gone for a win on Zoncolan. He was by far the strongest climber, it would have been the easiest chance of winning on Zoncolan he could have got.

Yes- he could have won it if he wanted- but did he need it by any means? NO
He'll come back and win it again.

BTW as far as the champion's mentality... so would you say Indurain lacked a champion's mentality since he allowed most of his competitors to win stages before him?

 

[Flamin]

Even in 2012?

Yes, the Giro was horrible, and even though the GC in the Tour was settled early, there was still a lot of aggressive riding (Nibali, VDB2, Rolland). Also Froome dropping Wiggins was just epic and something I will always remember.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Vuelta didn't have to work hard to be the best GT in 2012.

It did anyway.

 

[The Hitch]

Also a problem of the Zoncolan. It's too steep to attack versus equals so as long as noone cracks, this is gonna happen.

Too steep to attack?

What does that mean?

look at previous editions of this or Anrgy Lu and the time differences that have happened amongst gc contenders.

Today sucked because everyone was happy with their gc. In fact I would say it actually shows the power of Zoncolan since if this was any other climb you probably would have had about 25 riders come over together like sometimes happens on opening mtfs (Terminillo, Sierra Nevada)

Organizers took a risk that gc would come down to final stage

But Nairo declared for Giro and that was that.

Best place for Zonc imo though is second Saturday followed by the queen dolomite stage the day after.

That way gt hasn't yet had enough gc stages for overall to be decided, but is close enough to finish that they ride both mountain stages.

Or alternatively as a downhill finishe - see Mortirolo.

 

[The Hitch]

Even in 2012?

Especially in 2012.

2012 was an absolute disgrace of a gt. I can't believe there is anyone on this planet who would give it above a 2 out of 10.

 

[BigMac]

Crossing the line.

Ryder Hesjedal ‏@ryder_hesjedal
Truly grateful for @ACardoso84 staying with me today. I believe he could have gone in the break and won this stage. Thanks @Ride_Argyle crew

 

[Mellow Velo]

In the past 3 years, Tour > Giro imo.

In that case, you must have found the Giro about as enjoyable as toothache.

 

[VeloHuman]

Impressive work by Uran to hold onto his 2nd place in these last few days of tough climbing. Bodes well for his future if he is interested in the Tour, where his newfound diesel TT engine will be more favored.

 

[hrotha]

How the hell is Basso going to finish 15th tomorrow. Terrible average level in this Giro.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Yes Quintana is now a champion.
To be a great sportsman though he needs to become
more generous on the road:

I don't mean a less impassive face,
I mean:

1) he could have let Pozzovivo (win->) beat him on that stage earlier on.
2) he could have let Uran finish before him today.
3) he could have started 90s late on the last ITT

and still be in rosa - and be a class act too!

I hope he stops on the line tomorrow and counts to 90 before
passing it - that would be a good start IMO.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Pozzovivo wasn't going to win that stage. It was bad form of Nairito to jump away after telling Il Dottore he was on the limit and couldn't do a turn, I agree, but Battaglin was over 2 minutes ahead of them after quite a dramatic battle for the stage win from the break.

 

[Flamin]

In that case, you must have found the Giro about as enjoyable as toothache.

When? 2012?

 

[Angliru]

Exactly mate. It's hilarious. As though Quintana owes it to a few peons on this forum to put minutes into people everyday. Or that the challengers owe everyone equally to attack until they either get away or die on the side of the road trying.

It's the same after almost every race. Now they'll stand around congratulating each other on recognising that this Giro was in fact the worst ever and they said it would be back in 2010 because they know so much about cycling and how much it sucks.

I for one really enjoyed the race like I enjoy every race.

+1
I don't get the constant and predictable ranting about boring stages and riders not being "real champions" because they failed to entertain. I'm just happy to be able to watch these races.

 

[Arnout]

Too steep to attack?

What does that mean?

look at previous editions of this or Anrgy Lu and the time differences that have happened amongst gc contenders.

Today sucked because everyone was happy with their gc. In fact I would say it actually shows the power of Zoncolan since if this was any other climb you probably would have had about 25 riders come over together like sometimes happens on opening mtfs (Terminillo, Sierra Nevada)

Organizers took a risk that gc would come down to final stage

But Nairo declared for Giro and that was that.

Best place for Zonc imo though is second Saturday followed by the queen dolomite stage the day after.

That way gt hasn't yet had enough gc stages for overall to be decided, but is close enough to finish that they ride both mountain stages.

Or alternatively as a downhill finishe - see Mortirolo.

Isn't Angliru a lot more inconsistent? Which would mean riders have the chance to change up on some less steep parts. On the Zoncolan everyone is pretty much lowest gear for 5km.

 

[Escarabajo]

It's funny how Monfort can be high in GC but when he is in a break there will always be a few guys that climb a lot better even if they are hours down.

+1.
I have seen that several times in other GT's as well. I think the soft pedalling of the riders hours down help them in certain stages. The other guys try harder in every stage and therefore have it more difficult to recuparate from stage to stage.

 

[The Hitch]

Isn't Angliru a lot more inconsistent? Which would mean riders have the chance to change up on some less steep parts. On the Zoncolan everyone is pretty much lowest gear for 5km.

No, on Angliru everyone is lowest gear for 5km. On Zoncolan its 10km. That's the difference between the 2 - Zoncolan's steep sections go on for longer (basically the whole climb)

Angliru is 2 halves. The second half is exactly like Zoncolan - all steep kilometers. The first half is more like an average hc climb gradient. Which is why its average gradient % is lower than Zoncs. Then at km 6 it ramps up and basically becomes Zoncolan the rest of the way.

Its inconsistent if you consider going from 12% to 22% to 15% to be inconsistent.

But Zoncolan has that as well.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Cueña de los Cabres is the toughest part of either climb (just), but the super brutal part of Zoncolan is 8km or so, as opposed to 6,5% on Angliru, and the first 2 steep kilometres of Zoncolan are very close to Cueña and a lot longer.

 

[icefire]

Cueña de los Cabres is the toughest part of either climb (just), but the super brutal part of Zoncolan is 8km or so, as opposed to 6,5% on Angliru, and the first 2 steep kilometres of Zoncolan are very close to Cueña and a lot longer.

Both climbs have been conquered from the breakaway. Watching Rogers today has made me go 20 years back when Jalabert won in Lagos de Covadonga. The myth is dead.

 

[Ruby United]

Go on afrank make stage 21. You know you want to

 

[chiocciolis_calves]

Too steep to attack?

What does that mean?

look at previous editions of this or Anrgy Lu and the time differences that have happened amongst gc contenders.

I have. Watched them, too. In the first two editions, 2003 and 2007, the time differences were under a minute between the main GC contenders, even in 2003, when Simoni was stomping the field. I believe he ended up about 30 seconds up on Garzelli and about 40 on Casagrande and Pantani. It was about 30 seconds on Di Luca and Cunego in 2007, with Schleck only like 15 seconds behind him. 2010 was the one edition in which there were significant time differences between the stage winner and the other contenders, with Basso getting about 1:20 on Evans. In 2011, Anton won by 30 seconds over Contador, but Nibali was right behind Contador, and the other GC contenders were all bunched together, with insignificant time losses/differentials. Numerous riders and ex-riders have commented on how climbs like Zoncolan are self-limiting because everyone is spinning their smallest gears. A telling piece of evidence is the time down of the gruppetto on Zoncolan stages versus stages with less sever gradients. It's simply harder to attack and build up as sizable time gaps. I used to savor these types of climbs in the GTs, but I've come to see that the pros are correct about them. They usually turn into duds where the protagonists can't build much of an advantage, regardless how dominant they've been up to that point.

 

[hfer07]

I have. Watched them, too. In the first two editions, 2003 and 2007, the time differences were under a minute between the main GC contenders, even in 2003, when Simoni was stomping the field. I believe he ended up about 30 seconds up on Garzelli and about 40 on Casagrande and Pantani. It was about 30 seconds on Di Luca and Cunego in 2007, with Schleck only like 15 seconds behind him. 2010 was the one edition in which there were significant time differences between the stage winner and the other contenders, with Basso getting about 1:20 on Evans. In 2011, Anton won by 30 seconds over Contador, but Nibali was right behind Contador, and the other GC contenders were all bunched together, with insignificant time losses/differentials. Numerous riders and ex-riders have commented on how climbs like Zoncolan are self-limiting because everyone is spinning their smallest gears. A telling piece of evidence is the time down of the gruppetto on Zoncolan stages versus stages with less sever gradients. It's simply harder to attack and build up as sizable time gaps. I used to savor these types of climbs in the GTs, but I've come to see that the pros are correct about them. They usually turn into duds where the protagonists can't build much of an advantage, regardless how dominant they've been up to that point.

On previous editions - the Zoncolan stage has been placed when it was set to make differences- as it happened. This year, after the gaps already generated among the GC riders & practically the title secured by Quintana, it was clear that it was going to be a parade in some way - apart of course from the stage winner

 

[jens_attacks]

No, on Angliru everyone is lowest gear for 5km. On Zoncolan its 10km. That's the difference between the 2 - Zoncolan's steep sections go on for longer (basically the whole climb)

Angliru is 2 halves. The second half is exactly like Zoncolan - all steep kilometers. The first half is more like an average hc climb gradient. Which is why its average gradient % is lower than Zoncs. Then at km 6 it ramps up and basically becomes Zoncolan the rest of the way.

Its inconsistent if you consider going from 12% to 22% to 15% to be inconsistent.

But Zoncolan has that as well.

true.
for example on mortirolo and angliru, the records of speeds are above 17-18 km/h
on zoncolan, they barely raced above 15 kmph. that's a very big difference.