2015 Ardennes: 79th La Fleche Wallonne - Mur de Huy - 205.5k

[ferryman]

Re: Re:

What happened to Gilbert, Arredondo and Martin?

crashed

Seriously injured and out for sunday?

It was a crash fest today. Martin crashed early but looked OK but not fit to continue. Gilbert looked in shock more than hurt but who knows. Don't know about Arre..

 

[Akuryo]

Re:

Tim Wellens is going to finish top 5 in LBL. He is getting stronger and stronger

So is Alaphilippe

 

[Miburo]

FW of 2010 was pretty good actually.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: 2015 Ardennes: 79th La Fleche Wallonne - Mur de Huy - 20

Fleche 2010 was cool indeed, apart from Evans winning which I was pretty mad about back then

 

[myrideissteelerthanyours]

Re: Re:

And this proves the point. Perhaps you will come to peace with the sport the moment you stop seeing professional cycling exclusively as entertainment for the you and masses, and riders as some sort of circus performers, at whom you can be mad for not doing that particular trick which pleases you.

Sorry, but the show business aspect of professional cycling can't be dismissed so easily. There's lots of money involved and it all revolves around the idea of appealing to the audience. If it isn't entertaining, why would people watch it? Fact is, professional cycling has to make itself entertaining or it's doomed. The UCI needs to understand that, and they need to implement rule changes that keep the sport viable as a spectacle.

You have to draw the line somewhere dont you? If its just about making money why not throw out all the cycling and we can just shoot a reality TV show? Those sell well and you don't have to pay writers. Also "entertaining" is highly subjective. Most CNF posters don't find it entertaining if their #1 idol doesn't win or if its a GT with a stage that's not a MTF they become enraged and disgusted.

 

[SeriousSam]

I only become enraged and disgusted if it's a flat stage sprint specialists compete for or if a break consisting of non-notable riders is allowed to win.

 

[Parrulo]

Re: Re:

And this proves the point. Perhaps you will come to peace with the sport the moment you stop seeing professional cycling exclusively as entertainment for the you and masses, and riders as some sort of circus performers, at whom you can be mad for not doing that particular trick which pleases you.

Sorry, but the show business aspect of professional cycling can't be dismissed so easily. There's lots of money involved and it all revolves around the idea of appealing to the audience. If it isn't entertaining, why would people watch it? Fact is, professional cycling has to make itself entertaining or it's doomed. The UCI needs to understand that, and they need to implement rule changes that keep the sport viable as a spectacle.

You have to draw the line somewhere dont you? If its just about making money why not throw out all the cycling and we can just shoot a reality TV show? Those sell well and you don't have to pay writers. Also "entertaining" is highly subjective. Most CNF posters don't find it entertaining if their #1 idol doesn't win or if its a GT with a stage that's not a MTF they become enraged and disgusted.

Professional sports are money making businesses highly dependent on their entertainment value. No entertainment = no money = no sponsors = no sport

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

You have to draw the line somewhere dont you? If its just about making money why not throw out all the cycling and we can just shoot a reality TV show? Those sell well and you don't have to pay writers. Also "entertaining" is highly subjective. Most CNF posters don't find it entertaining if their #1 idol doesn't win or if its a GT with a stage that's not a MTF they become enraged and disgusted.

Of course you have to draw the line somewhere; that goes without saying. And it cuts both ways - no one would want a sport that didn't care at all for the spectacle and that was absolutely, scientifically, 100% boring.

It's an objective fact that the trend for some 25-30 years has been towards more conservative racing, and the last few years in particular things seem to be being taken to their logical conclusion. We DON'T need to accept this as inevitable and we don't need to be OK with races where everything is reduced to a sprint, when there are many things that could be done to alleviate the problem if only people were willing to admit there's one.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Re:

Was that Betencur who put in an attack on the penultimate climb for AG2R ....Kirby didn't bother to name most riders at any stage of the race

I believe it was Gastauer, but the only reason I believe that was that Kirby named him.

Which is more than you were apparently able to do, and more than I was confident to try to do.

Commentary can't be easy, and much as I enjoy their errors and clangers, let's not slag them off for not doing what they do actually do.

 

[ray j willings]

That last climb looked almost slow motion. Wellens attacked a wee bit to early. He could have had that race in the bag.
Valverde won ...im happy

 

[The Barb]

Maybe I'm a masochist, but the fact that there are so many "uninteresting" races makes the occasional gem all the greater. This is even more so when the good race is unexpected, like Ghent Wevelgem this year. I will happily tolerate a succession of bland races for two or three like that every season. It's like a girl who is mean and aloof 90% of the time but the other 10% of the time blows your socks off. There's a certain appeal to that.

FML.

 

[Arnout]

Re: Re:

You have to draw the line somewhere dont you? If its just about making money why not throw out all the cycling and we can just shoot a reality TV show? Those sell well and you don't have to pay writers. Also "entertaining" is highly subjective. Most CNF posters don't find it entertaining if their #1 idol doesn't win or if its a GT with a stage that's not a MTF they become enraged and disgusted.

Of course you have to draw the line somewhere; that goes without saying. And it cuts both ways - no one would want a sport that didn't care at all for the spectacle and that was absolutely, scientifically, 100% boring.

It's an objective fact that the trend for some 25-30 years has been towards more conservative racing, and the last few years in particular things seem to be being taken to their logical conclusion. We DON'T need to accept this as inevitable and we don't need to be OK with races where everything is reduced to a sprint, when there are many things that could be done to alleviate the problem if only people were willing to admit there's one.

I remember the period ~ 2005-2008 being less interesting than the subsequent years but the last two years are really bad again. What's clear is that cycling currently needs either extreme conditions or worldclass riders to spice things up before the last few kilometers. With Boonen and Cancellara in top form the cobbled classics were guaranteed to see real action from 50km out.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Re:

Maybe I'm a masochist, but the fact that there are so many "uninteresting" races makes the occasional gem all the greater. This is even more so when the good race is unexpected, like Ghent Wevelgem this year. I will happily tolerate a succession of bland races for two or three like that every season. It's like a girl who is mean and aloof 90% of the time but the other 10% of the time blows your socks off. There's a certain appeal to that.

FML.

Apparently that good race was supposed to be neutralized. Other than the weather nothing seems to be able to make good racing this year. Strong teams are colluding together to neutralize every good piece of attack and everybody seems to think they will win in the sprint long or short

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: 2015 Ardennes: 79th La Fleche Wallonne - Mur de Huy - 20

ohh that was a standard ardennes classic borefest from recent years
I like the tension of Huy, but they even didnt bother to attack Piti.Very bad performance by Katusha and Sky.Otoh very good Alaphillipe

I hope LBL will be a lot better

 

[Dedelou]

Re: Re:

It should be: let's welcome the new generation of cycling fans, the ones that will complain unless we see winning moves from 60 k out or riders laying on the fields left and right because of strong wind, the ones that call the average cycling race "boring" and who expects spectacular racing every single day.

I'd say the new generation of fans is completely fine with absolute borefests. But apparently it's unreasonable to think that a professional sport, which is entertainment for an audience, should be entertaining for longer than 5 minutes.

That might be the radios and micro managing of riders more than anything else I'd say. But they should probably consider not finishing on the Huy at some point to see how it goes.

Keep the finish at Huy.. it has being exciting for decades . get rid of computers in car. power cams, radios.. and the entire staff that don't know anything except the so called scientific racing that teach the young guys the only thing that matter is the last centimeter of a race.

 

[Tank Engine]

Re: Re:

I agree. Most people tends to underestimate Kwiatkowski a lot, the Worlds and last Sunday Amstel.

They may say he didn't prove himself winning a big thing before the Worlds, but he an all Top 5 result in last year Ardennes was superb good for a newbie. Even he thought himself was a favorite by asking his Pole team to control the race. And in Amstel, no one mention him until like page 4 or 5 ?

I won't say he can win FW today (even he thinks his chance is small), but he is still a top 5 favorites. Classic specialist is specialist, what they do best than grand tour contenders is position well in crucial time. This is the advantage of Kwiatkowski, even he is not the best climber here.

I was surprised that you thought that no-one mentioned him till page 4, so I checked. I seem to be the first to mention him towards the bottom of page 2 and was shocked with that, since I think Amstel is the classic that suits him the best (although he is one of my three favourite riders). Obvious Valverde win was obvious. I hope Danny boy is in reasonable shape for LBL (and no-one today was really hurt). Looking forward to the Lotto boys to liven it up.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

But they should probably consider not finishing on the Huy at some point to see how it goes.

Good god no. Anything but that, it's the defining feature of this race and some us us, perhaps many, love the Mur finish.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Re: Re:

But they should probably consider not finishing on the Huy at some point to see how it goes.

Good god no. Anything but that, it's the defining feature of this race and some us us, perhaps many, love the Mur finish.

If they ever want Flèche to be a real race again worthy of its history, they need to add 50km and drop the silly gimmicky uphill sprint finish. Nothing wrong with the Mur being the focal point of the race; but if we want this race to be a race again it shouldn't be the finish.

 

[Flyjin3]

We will read the same complaints here on Sunday

 

[willbick]

I think a conservative style of racing is inevitable nowadays when you have a peloton that is all highly professional and trains and prepares in similar fashions (unlike maybe 20+ years ago when there was more discrepancy between how riders prepared), and when you dont have any guys miles ahead of the rest Armstrong-style due to clinic factors. Frankly attacks are just highly unlikely to succeed now because evrything is planned to the Watt and if u put in a big effort before the finish (like wellens today) yr just not gonna have anything for the finale. There werent even any attacks on the Mur, not because they COULDNT attack, but because every rider knew it would be bad tactics - they would inevitably blow up and come 17th.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

Was that Betencur who put in an attack on the penultimate climb for AG2R ....Kirby didn't bother to name most riders at any stage of the race

I believe it was Gastauer, but the only reason I believe that was that Kirby named him.

Which is more than you were apparently able to do, and more than I was confident to try to do.

Commentary can't be easy, and much as I enjoy their errors and clangers, let's not slag them off for not doing what they do actually do.

I am not paid to spot riders and And i can say this because I pay eurosport for commentary and Kirby should not be on air for myriad of reasons

Other commentators I find ok or good depending on who and will listen to them all but I find it intolerable that we have to put up with the rantings of Carlton Kirby who doesn't bother to follow the race and spends ages talking nonsense

 

[Parrulo]

Ok so Costa said on his journal that he knew the mur didn't suit him because he is much heavier and less explosive than the favourites, so he tried to set a high pace from the bottom but as soon as he saw that it wasn't hard enough to avoid an explosive final sprint he just cruised home.

^^This stuff right here really get's on my nerves.

So you know the final does suit you at all and you have no chance of winning. What do you do? Wait for the final instead of attacking 6 k from the line on the penultimate climb and try to get away before the last climb. Perfect example of cycling's current sad state This guys are hopeless. The course is fine, it was all downhillish between the last 2 climbs and only 3 or 4k. Had 2 or 3 more second tier guys gone with Wellens and they would have probably fought for the finish considering how small the peloton was. Who knows if Costa had gone with him and some guy like Kreuziger or whatever if he wouldn't have won.

 

[dicanio_michael]

Re: Re:

I agree. Most people tends to underestimate Kwiatkowski a lot, the Worlds and last Sunday Amstel.

They may say he didn't prove himself winning a big thing before the Worlds, but he an all Top 5 result in last year Ardennes was superb good for a newbie. Even he thought himself was a favorite by asking his Pole team to control the race. And in Amstel, no one mention him until like page 4 or 5 ?

I won't say he can win FW today (even he thinks his chance is small), but he is still a top 5 favorites. Classic specialist is specialist, what they do best than grand tour contenders is position well in crucial time. This is the advantage of Kwiatkowski, even he is not the best climber here.

I was surprised that you thought that no-one mentioned him till page 4, so I checked. I seem to be the first to mention him towards the bottom of page 2 and was shocked with that, since I think Amstel is the classic that suits him the best (although he is one of my three favourite riders). Obvious Valverde win was obvious. I hope Danny boy is in reasonable shape for LBL (and no-one today was really hurt). Looking forward to the Lotto boys to liven it up.

I checked back, I missed your post, and the next mention is page 4

Anyway, he seems a bit off track this season, but it's normal in my opinion. As a world champion, he got lots of media attention. It's difficult to adapt this change at his young age. Hope he will regain the strength in LBL.

 

[dicanio_michael]

Re:

I think a conservative style of racing is inevitable nowadays when you have a peloton that is all highly professional and trains and prepares in similar fashions (unlike maybe 20+ years ago when there was more discrepancy between how riders prepared), and when you dont have any guys miles ahead of the rest Armstrong-style due to clinic factors. Frankly attacks are just highly unlikely to succeed now because evrything is planned to the Watt and if u put in a big effort before the finish (like wellens today) yr just not gonna have anything for the finale. There werent even any attacks on the Mur, not because they COULDNT attack, but because every rider knew it would be bad tactics - they would inevitably blow up and come 17th.

True, now technology is much advance. Every move is well planned, but not a wild guess and go for a suicide attack.

The most possible scene to have a big attack at the end now (other than cobble races) might be a 3km decent to the finish after the climb. Climbers will try to do sth, while 'sprinters' also have their chances. When it's just a climb like Huy and so many favorites here (at least 4), every team must make sure no one stays away.

 

[richo36]

I don't understand why suicide attack or not why more people don't try something. I mean what are your serious odds of winning if you aren't one of the top 4 on this type of finish. It's suicide doing nothing.

The example above of Costa for instance, why not get you team to set a really high tempo for the first 120km of the race. It's a one day race, who cares if you 3/4 of your team DNF as it's a one day race. It might fail but at least you are doing something. Look at worlds last year. Both Poland and Italy tried to set a hard pace. It failed for Italy but it worked for Poland. If the polish team didn't do what they did they would not of won as there is no way the attack would of survived at end of race