2015, Ronde van Vlaanderen 264.9 Km

[ToreBear]

OMG! I'm speechless. That was impressive!

 

[DenisMenchov]

Poor Sep, how unlicky can one get

 

[Lexman]

Re: Re:

What a boring RVV, Terpstra doing a Spartacus ride, thinking he was going to outsprint Kristoff, he was even beaten by Stannard ... what a joke Terpstra...

Boring because you did not like the winner?

I thought it was a good race.

Oh I don't mind Kristoff winning, but Terpstra collaborated way to much with him

Boring because of the lack of action, one big attack and the race was riden...

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

Lol at people in this forum telling Terpstra to ride like a coward and not pull. I can't believe how reactionary and shortsighted some people are.

If he stopped riding with Kristoff he still wouldn't have won.

But the difference is he would lose his podium place no one will ever trust him in a breakaway again.

Any race he ever attacks in, every other rider working with him would identify him immediately as the guy who will sell them down the river with cowardly cheapo tactics if the breakaway gets a sniff at a win.

An extremely dumb thing for a rider who's best chance to win is from a mid race break, to do.

He has more chance to win in a 4 man group than alone with kristoff. You're dumb to deny that.

If he wants to win, then the only way was to no ride at all.

Or kristoff keeps pulling and maybe he can try something in the last few km (better than what it was right now)

or they're with 4 and kristoff prob can't react to everything.

That was the optimal strategy for him to win the race.

There's a risk he won't get podium but that's worth the risk for winning the race.

Let's imagine Terpstra does the unthinkable and quits the lead breakaway. Kristoff rides in with Stybar and GvA while Terpstra is hanging around in the group where everyone is being chased down by Thomas. Kristoff still wins.

Their minds don't work like you imagine. It is the opposite of racing if Terpstra stopped working.

Yea sure, but that's the only way to win.

You want to risk something for the win or become 2nd? I like guys that risk anything FTW.

I'm not disputing it's risky, when did i say it was bulletproof?

But what i said was the only way he could win the race.

 

[slosada]

I just wonder what would have happened if Greipel had not spent much energy attacking 4 times and doing pulls. Yes, Benoot and Roelandts were there but André was also very strong.

 

[Sasquatch]

Deserved win from Kristoff.

I think Terpstra was in a bad situation specially because Stybar couldn't go with Sagan. I still think he worked way too much with such a good sprinter but he held the responsibility of leadership quite well.

Vanmarcke? We need him for Roubaix, can't stand another Kristoff or Sky win.

Nelson Oliveira surprisingly good and Benoot the revelation of the day of course. Greipel was just spectacular making up for an underwhelming race from Roelandts.

Tinkoff is probably on the Koppenberg. Really, where the f*** was Breschel? Sagan looks weak whenever he has to make a real effort....

Regarding Thomas,I thought he would be stronger with all the hype surrounding him. Still he has learned the hard way what is like to be a favourite for a classic.

This. When Stybar couldn't react on Pater, Quick Step was riding for max 2nd place. A good Stybar would've changed things but he didn't really have it today.

Sky also rode a poor race tactically. You can't Tour de France this race. Trains have no effect

And better to get 2nd than letting Sagan and Van Avermaet back and getting 4th.

He would have had more chance of a win if he had let them get back on with around 5-6km to go. Then he could have at least tried to get away before the sprint and none of the others would want to be the one wasting energy chasing him down.

Let's assume he didn't work and Sagan and Van Avermaet got back to them and they all attacked Kristoff, he would have followed each attack and still would have won due to how strong he is at the moment. The only way they could have beaten Kristoff was dropping him on the Paterburg, and no one could do that.

 

[mrhender]

Nothing wrong with Terpstra tacticts imo..

He was on the radio and if his teammates had anything he would have stayed in Kristoffs wheel...

The real tactical fault was when the group decided to give Terpstra/Kristoff 30 seconds in the final...

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re: Re:

Well, they did close the gap slightly and anyway, say a group of six riders went over the top of the last climb including Kristoff, it would be a lot less of a foregone conclusion, as tactics would suddenly become important, everyone could have taken turns to attack Kristoff - especially if Etixx had two riders there.

Except Thomas would have been in there to take the win from everybody. There was much more going on in Thomas' group to manage Thomas off the podium. As posted by myself and others, Sky's strategy was just crazy stupid today.

 

[Sasquatch]

PR is a different race yes, but the way Kristoff has ridden the last week, he has to be the short priced favourite. No one is going to be able to drop him. Only a mechanical will stop him from winning PR with the form he's in, IMO!

 

[cellardoor]

If anyone from QuickStep failed it was Stybar not getting on the wheel of GvA and Sagan. Once Terprstra knew it was Sagan and GvA behind the option of not working really went out the window.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re: Re:

Lol at people in this forum telling Terpstra to ride like a coward and not pull. I can't believe how reactionary and shortsighted some people are.

If he stopped riding with Kristoff he still wouldn't have won.

But the difference is he would lose his podium place no one will ever trust him in a breakaway again.

Any race he ever attacks in, every other rider working with him would identify him immediately as the guy who will sell them down the river with cowardly cheapo tactics if the breakaway gets a sniff at a win.

An extremely dumb thing for a rider who's best chance to win is from a mid race break, to do.

He has more chance to win in a 4 man group than alone with kristoff. You're dumb to deny that.

If he wants to win, then the only way was to no ride at all.

Or kristoff keeps pulling and maybe he can try something in the last few km (better than what it was right now)

or they're with 4 and kristoff prob can't react to everything.

That was the optimal strategy for him to win the race.

There's a risk he won't get podium but that's worth the risk for winning the race.

Let's imagine Terpstra does the unthinkable and quits the lead breakaway. Kristoff rides in with Stybar and GvA while Terpstra is hanging around in the group where everyone is being chased down by Thomas. Kristoff still wins.

Their minds don't work like you imagine. It is the opposite of racing if Terpstra stopped working.

Yea sure, but that's the only way to win.

You want to risk something for the win or become 2nd? I like guys that risk anything FTW.

I'm not disputing it's risky, when did i say it was bulletproof?

But what i said was the only way he could win the race.

Terpstra wasn't winning today. No way. Not with Thomas and Kristoff nearby. Terpstra rode a great race.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Lol at people in this forum telling Terpstra to ride like a coward and not pull. I can't believe how reactionary and shortsighted some people are.

If he stopped riding with Kristoff he still wouldn't have won.

But the difference is he would lose his podium place no one will ever trust him in a breakaway again.

Any race he ever attacks in, every other rider working with him would identify him immediately as the guy who will sell them down the river with cowardly cheapo tactics if the breakaway gets a sniff at a win.

An extremely dumb thing for a rider who's best chance to win is from a mid race break, to do.

He has more chance to win in a 4 man group than alone with kristoff. You're dumb to deny that.

If he wants to win, then the only way was to no ride at all.

Or kristoff keeps pulling and maybe he can try something in the last few km (better than what it was right now)

or they're with 4 and kristoff prob can't react to everything.

That was the optimal strategy for him to win the race.

There's a risk he won't get podium but that's worth the risk for winning the race.

This. Can't believe I see Hitch advocating riding for 2nd place. In a group of 4 he might have won

Being inferior is not an excuse to wheelsuck. You win if you are the strongest. If you aren't you can make that up by attacking in places that are your strenght. If you aren't then you make that up through a better team. If you don't have that you can make that up with better tactics. If all that fails, you might get lucky and the better guys crash.

But if you fail on all those things, then you don't deserve to win. To just wheelsuck a guy in a 2 man group for 10km on the 1% chance he might tow you to the line is to abuse the breakaway system on which cycling has been built for the last century

If riders in a breakaway or in a group on the road can't trust eachother, then the entire pro cycling calendar is going to become like the first 60km of any Champs Elysee stage where everyone rides together because they can't trust eachother in breakaways.

And to allow to wheelsuck their breakaway companions, simply because you aren't good enough to beat them, that's just communism.
Why don't we just start letting sprinters hang onto cars on mountain stages, or let weak tter finish their time trials on the 1km to go line. Paris roubaix is also unfair. The strongest rider actually wins sometimes. Lets make it more fair and say that only the favourites have to do the whole 250km. The weaker riders should just be allowed to start in Arenberg, to give them a chance, cos it really sucks that they don't get to win these races.

 

[DFA123]

Deserved win from Kristoff.

I think Terpstra was in a bad situation specially because Stybar couldn't go with Sagan. I still think he worked way too much with such a good sprinter but he held the responsibility of leadership quite well.

Vanmarcke? We need him for Roubaix, can't stand another Kristoff or Sky win.

Nelson Oliveira surprisingly good and Benoot the revelation of the day of course. Greipel was just spectacular making up for an underwhelming race from Roelandts.

Tinkoff is probably on the Koppenberg. Really, where the f*** was Breschel? Sagan looks weak whenever he has to make a real effort....

Regarding Thomas,I thought he would be stronger with all the hype surrounding him. Still he has learned the hard way what is like to be a favourite for a classic.

This. When Stybar couldn't react on Pater, Quick Step was riding for max 2nd place. A good Stybar would've changed things but he didn't really have it today.

Sky also rode a poor race tactically. You can't Tour de France this race. Trains have no effect

And better to get 2nd than letting Sagan and Van Avermaet back and getting 4th.

He would have had more chance of a win if he had let them get back on with around 5-6km to go. Then he could have at least tried to get away before the sprint and none of the others would want to be the one wasting energy chasing him down.

Let's assume he didn't work and Sagan and Van Avermaet got back to them and they all attacked Kristoff, he would have followed each attack and still would have won due to how strong he is at the moment. The only way they could have beaten Kristoff was dropping him on the Paterburg, and no one could do that.

No-one could drop him on the Paterberg because he had a 25 second lead, which Terpstra had gifted to him by initiating and then doing most of the work in the break. If the big group had all started the Paterberg together, it's certainly possible that 4-5 riders (including one from Etixx) could have distanced him slightly - and then no-body would have worked with Kristoff to pull them back in (a bit like what happened with the Thomas group).

Kristoff may have been too strong anyway - and certainly was a worthy winner - but the tactics by Terpstra were still idiotic. They went from having a small chance of winning to virtually no chance.

 

[DFA123]

If anyone from QuickStep failed it was Stybar not getting on the wheel of GvA and Sagan. Once Terprstra knew it was Sagan and GvA behind the option of not working really went out the window.

This is a good point, Stybar really needed to get on the wheel to add something else to the equation. The main damage though was done before then.

Everyone in the race knew that to win they probably need to distance Kristoff and Degenkolb on the last two climbs. Terpstra started a break and then continued with it despite taking Kristoff along with him, giving Kristoff a 30 second head start over the main group going onto the Kwaremont. There is absolutely no sense in those tactics from a team looking to win the race. Terpstra has never had the acceleration and jump needed to drop Kristoff on the bergs - and certainly wasn't going to on the form Kristoff was on.

 

[Bushman]

Re: Re:

Apparently Sky still hasn't learned the difference between classics and mountain stages. They were riding like it was a GT protecting the Yellow Jersey of Chris Froome.

Sky did fine. Thomas didn't have legs to follow Sagan and Avermaet.

No, but Sky never has a plan B when their captain can't just ride away from the others. If they had ridden more conservedly a guy like Rowe could have been able to do something in the chase group.

 

[William H]

Re: Re:

Sky's tactics delivered Thomas to where he needed to be to win the race if he had the legs. Considering they don't really have a very strong team for Flanders, that's a fine enough performance.

Only Rowe and Thomas made the finale, Lotto (-Bellisol) had more there, do you think Lotto have a stronger team for flanders than Sky?

Considering Stannard's lack of form, yes. You could see that in G-W and De Panne.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Apparently Sky still hasn't learned the difference between classics and mountain stages. They were riding like it was a GT protecting the Yellow Jersey of Chris Froome.

Sky did fine. Thomas didn't have legs to follow Sagan and Avermaet.

No, but Sky never has a plan B when their captain can't just ride away from the others. If they had ridden more conservedly a guy like Rowe could have been able to do something in the chase group.

I think they have just shown their hand too early in terms of the monuments. Everyone saw the form that Thomas had in the last two races and expected him to close down every break at the end. Even with a team-mate at the end I don't think Thomas could have won. He was too well marked and isn't a strong enough rider yet to overcome that kind of attention.

 

[johnymax]

What a monster Kristoff. Best rider in the world right there guys. Really really impressive and a well deserved win. Terpstra didn't do anything wrong imo. He took his chance and got a nice 2nd place.

What was wrong tactic I think was when Thomas attacked from the chasing group and Stybar followed I think Zdenek should have helped him chase down the duo at the front and try to make a four man lead group with 2 Etixx riders in there. They would have had a little better chance of winning this although I'm not sure anybody could beat Kristoff in this kind of form. Again hats off to this incredible cyclist.

 

[Asero831]

Deserved win from Kristoff.

I think Terpstra was in a bad situation specially because Stybar couldn't go with Sagan. I still think he worked way too much with such a good sprinter but he held the responsibility of leadership quite well.

This. When Stybar couldn't react on Pater, Quick Step was riding for max 2nd place. A good Stybar would've changed things but he didn't really have it today.

Sky also rode a poor race tactically. You can't Tour de France this race. Trains have no effect

You have to give it to Stybar. He covered almost all attacks. He could have brought GVA and Sagan as the gap is less than 5 seconds after the last cobble but he does not want to drag Degenkolb with him. Expect the same tactic from Etixx come PR but VDB will be more involved to shed out some of the favorites early on.

As for Thomas, he needs support. Maybe Sky can sign a worthy lieutenant to help him in races such as this.

Amazing win by Kristoff, he senses that no one is going to do the work for him so he took matters into his own hands. He is strong, confident and calm.

As for BMC, they are simply not good enough. Oss is a disappointment.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

Well, there was certainly more of a chance than there was of Terpstra beating him in a sprint! I agree that Kristoff looked the strongest rider, but a hard attack by, for example, Thomas, Stybar and Van Avermaet on the last climbs could have distanced him by 5-10 seconds. Terpstra by himself was never going to win.

By doing what you said Terpstra never would have been on the podium. He looked shaky on that last climb.

 

[DirtyWorks]

No-one could drop him on the Paterberg because he had a 25 second lead, which Terpstra had gifted to him by initiating and then doing most of the work in the break. If the big group had all started the Paterberg together, it's certainly possible that 4-5 riders (including one from Etixx) could have distanced him slightly - and then no-body would have worked with Kristoff to pull them back in (a bit like what happened with the Thomas group).

Kristoff may have been too strong anyway - and certainly was a worthy winner - but the tactics by Terpstra were still idiotic. They went from having a small chance of winning to virtually no chance.

No. Kristoff kept that lead on power alone.

The big group scenario included Thomas and **nobody** wanted that.

 

[Asero831]

What a monster Kristoff. Best rider in the world right there guys. Really really impressive and a well deserved win. Terpstra didn't do anything wrong imo. He took his chance and got a nice 2nd place.

What was wrong tactic I think was when Thomas attacked from the chasing group and Stybar followed I think Zdenek should have helped him chase down the duo at the front and try to make a four man lead group with 2 Etixx riders in there. They would have had a little better chance of winning this although I'm not sure anybody could beat Kristoff in this kind of form. Again hats off to this incredible cyclist.

I think that is the right move ny Stybar. He must not allow Degenkolb into the mix. More so, we do not know the tactics of BMC guys at that point.

Lessons learned, they would need VBD next week if they want to inflict damage. No way will Trepstra be allowed to attack in similar fashion as today. Expect BMC and Sky to make the cover.

 

[Sasquatch]

Re: Re:

Well, there was certainly more of a chance than there was of Terpstra beating him in a sprint! I agree that Kristoff looked the strongest rider, but a hard attack by, for example, Thomas, Stybar and Van Avermaet on the last climbs could have distanced him by 5-10 seconds. Terpstra by himself was never going to win.

By doing what you said Terpstra never would have been on the podium. He looked shaky on that last climb.

Another good point. Terpstra didn't have the legs to do any attacking in the last 15km.

 

[Bushman]

Re: Re:

Apparently Sky still hasn't learned the difference between classics and mountain stages. They were riding like it was a GT protecting the Yellow Jersey of Chris Froome.

Sky did fine. Thomas didn't have legs to follow Sagan and Avermaet.

No, but Sky never has a plan B when their captain can't just ride away from the others. If they had ridden more conservedly a guy like Rowe could have been able to do something in the chase group.

I think they have just shown their hand too early in terms of the monuments. Everyone saw the form that Thomas had in the last two races and expected him to close down every break at the end. Even with a team-mate at the end I don't think Thomas could have won. He was too well marked and isn't a strong enough rider yet to overcome that kind of attention.

And that is why it is stupid to ride like they did. Also Thomas was right on the front on the bergs 100 k out. Guys like Stybar and Kristoff wasn't even visible at that point and Sagan and Degenkolb was also at least 5-10 positions behind Thomas.

That kind of tactics only works if you have a freak like Cancellara '10/'11 or something like that.

 

[Asero831]

When will Stannard come up big in Monuments? He is the missing link for Thomas' ambition