2015 Tour de France Stage 5: Arras-Amiens 189.5km

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May 21, 2009
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Gigs_98 said:
LeMond just said that sagan has absolutely no chance against greipel on flat sprints. Is this guy blind or something
That sprint wasn't flat: seemed a gentle climb both from the video and from the official profile. Cavendish has traditionally exploited an aerodynamic advantage, a bit less now than before since others have caught on and are using wind tunnels, but today was more about peak power to weight.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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damian13ster said:
Miburo said:
damian13ster said:
Damn, if Sagan didn't have to play domestique role he would have won 5-8 stages this Tour......
And this way Tinkoff is going to come out of this Tour with nothing (btw, Majka crashed today :/ )
Sure try and create a conflict since you can't play the majka card anymore. Sagan was in perfect position but he lost greipel's wheel.

Tomorrow he'll win anyways, then you can stop with the trolling.
wtf are you talking about? How would I be able to create conflict by forum past? Sagan wastes energy that otherwise he could have spent on going for stage wins. Don't you agree with that? So being in Tinkoff must absolutely suck for ambitious rider like him and seeing his work go to waste won't help the cause
I don't see how he wasted energy today, tinkoff also worked for him keeping him on the front. It was his mistake for dropping greipel's wheel. Yesterday ok.

Besides he knew this was gonna happen so why are you complaining? He made that decision so no i don't see how it sucks.
 
May 26, 2015
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djconnel said:
Gigs_98 said:
LeMond just said that sagan has absolutely no chance against greipel on flat sprints. Is this guy blind or something
That sprint wasn't flat: seemed a gentle climb both from the video and from the official profile. Cavendish has traditionally exploited an aerodynamic advantage, a bit less now than before since others have caught on and are using wind tunnels, but today was more about peak power to weight.
Sagan beats Greipel all the time. Heck, he did it in his first tour, a flat out sprint.
 
As much as I love Sagan, Greipel smashed that eating wind most of the whole way while Peter was sheltered for most of his acceleration.

No doubt in my mind who's got the stronger sprint on a day like this.
 
Re:

barmaher said:
Cavendish sprinted very well, but his positioning was muck. He was in the wind for ages.
On replay he come from the back of Kristoff at 200m to go. Greipel stayed behind Cav for another 100m.
Cav went way too early because of Kristoff for some reason. Sagan was ticked in behind Greipel until the very last second. He might have taken him if he went a moment earlier.
 
djconnel said:
Gigs_98 said:
LeMond just said that sagan has absolutely no chance against greipel on flat sprints. Is this guy blind or something
That sprint wasn't flat: seemed a gentle climb both from the video and from the official profile. Cavendish has traditionally exploited an aerodynamic advantage, a bit less now than before since others have caught on and are using wind tunnels, but today was more about peak power to weight.
Surely it was more about the headwind, so leaving the sprint as late as possible was the most important factor. With a headwind aerodynamics would still have been important - Cav just hasn't got it any more.
 
I watched the finale again and sagan was extremely unlucky. He was still on greipels wheel at about 400 m to go but then degenkolb packed himself between those two. When gorilla started to sprint degenkolb couldn't hold his wheel, so a big gap between sagan and greipel opened.
 
Gigs_98 said:
I watched the finale again and sagan was extremely unlucky. He was still on greipels wheel at about 400 m to go but then degenkolb packed himself between those two. When gorilla started to sprint degenkolb couldn't hold his wheel, so a big gap between sagan and greipel opened.
Agree with this. If Sagan had even one team-mate with him to protect him a bit and help him hold the wheel he would have won that. He got blocked off, had to veer to the other side of the road (going in the wind in the process) and was still accelerating as he went over the line.
 
Seen the replay (as usual stream died at the last moment), kind of refreshing seeing Greipel bossed the Tour sprint. And Sagan...remember when some said he lost his top speed, and also he lost his punch, etc.., he only lost his right for dedicated team mates at most, and he seems okay with that. And Cav just love this Tour's wind.
 
Re: Re:

Miburo said:
damian13ster said:
Miburo said:
damian13ster said:
Damn, if Sagan didn't have to play domestique role he would have won 5-8 stages this Tour......
And this way Tinkoff is going to come out of this Tour with nothing (btw, Majka crashed today :/ )
Sure try and create a conflict since you can't play the majka card anymore. Sagan was in perfect position but he lost greipel's wheel.

Tomorrow he'll win anyways, then you can stop with the trolling.
wtf are you talking about? How would I be able to create conflict by forum past? Sagan wastes energy that otherwise he could have spent on going for stage wins. Don't you agree with that? So being in Tinkoff must absolutely suck for ambitious rider like him and seeing his work go to waste won't help the cause
I don't see how he wasted energy today, tinkoff also worked for him keeping him on the front. It was his mistake for dropping greipel's wheel. Yesterday ok.

Besides he knew this was gonna happen so why are you complaining? He made that decision so no i don't see how it sucks.
Because I, as a spectator, don't care about riders paycheck and want to see the best go for the win on each stage.
 
Jul 27, 2014
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People saying cav has lost it. He hasn't lost anything, Greipel has just been much smarter on 2 stages so far. Letting cav lead him out. And since they've both been headwind finishes. That was the correct thing to do.

But I do hope Cavendish doesn't apportion blame to his team again today. Yes they went too early again but he should've known that everyone would die in the headwind and should've kicked at 150, not 300
 
Re:

Happy dude said:
People saying cav has lost it. He hasn't lost anything, Greipel has just been much smarter on 2 stages so far. Letting cav lead him out. And since they've both been headwind finishes. That was the correct thing to do.

But I do hope Cavendish doesn't apportion blame to his team again today. Yes they went too early again but he should've known that everyone would die in the headwind and should've kicked at 150, not 300
He's clearly lost the acceleration and top speed that he had even 2 or 3 years ago. He used to win stages despite dodgy positioning or poor timing - now he only wins if he gets everything spot on tactically.
 
Aug 26, 2014
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Shame for Cav. today, but it's hard not to like Griepel. And Sagan showed blistering speed. He's immensely strong ATM.

As for relations with his team, he seems much happier thus far than he did last year, when he seemed frustrated and a bit unhappy all the time because he wasn'tt winning. Perhaps he enjoys not having quite so much pressure and being a bit more under the radar?
 
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Electress said:
Shame for Cav. today, but it's hard not to like Griepel. And Sagan showed blistering speed. He's immensely strong ATM.

As for relations with his team, he seems much happier thus far than he did last year, when he seemed frustrated and a bit unhappy all the time because he wasn'tt winning. Perhaps he enjoys not having quite so much pressure and being a bit more under the radar?
he is happy because no matter what happens he has $12 million of Oleg's money .
Win lose or draw who doesn't like those onions
 
Aug 31, 2012
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damian13ster said:
Miburo said:
damian13ster said:
Miburo said:
damian13ster said:
Damn, if Sagan didn't have to play domestique role he would have won 5-8 stages this Tour......
And this way Tinkoff is going to come out of this Tour with nothing (btw, Majka crashed today :/ )
Sure try and create a conflict since you can't play the majka card anymore. Sagan was in perfect position but he lost greipel's wheel.

Tomorrow he'll win anyways, then you can stop with the trolling.
wtf are you talking about? How would I be able to create conflict by forum past? Sagan wastes energy that otherwise he could have spent on going for stage wins. Don't you agree with that? So being in Tinkoff must absolutely suck for ambitious rider like him and seeing his work go to waste won't help the cause
I don't see how he wasted energy today, tinkoff also worked for him keeping him on the front. It was his mistake for dropping greipel's wheel. Yesterday ok.

Besides he knew this was gonna happen so why are you complaining? He made that decision so no i don't see how it sucks.
Because I, as a spectator, don't care about riders paycheck and want to see the best go for the win on each stage.
Well said. Sagan is getting a huge amount of money, so I doubt he's too unhappy and if he was, well his decision, but we as fans can rue the fact he has to be a domestique, which dulls his edge.
 
Jul 27, 2014
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DFA123 said:
Happy dude said:
People saying cav has lost it. He hasn't lost anything, Greipel has just been much smarter on 2 stages so far. Letting cav lead him out. And since they've both been headwind finishes. That was the correct thing to do.

But I do hope Cavendish doesn't apportion blame to his team again today. Yes they went too early again but he should've known that everyone would die in the headwind and should've kicked at 150, not 300
He's clearly lost the acceleration and top speed that he had even 2 or 3 years ago. He used to win stages despite dodgy positioning or poor timing - now he only wins if he gets everything spot on tactically.
Yes I think he's lost acceleration as you would expect with age. I think his speed is still there. But to say he has completely lost it is defeatist(or optimistic in some peoples cases)

But I think he just needs to use his head more. It is not 2009 anymore and he can't just destroy everyone regardless of everything. He needs to start being smart about it. For example, a good bet is to sit on kristoffs wheel cuz he always goes early. Perfect lead out.

Another thing he has lost is his aggression, he does not want to get injured anymore. And isn't as aggressive for positioning. I think he is actually going through the stage greipel was going through for the last couple of seasons. Trying to reinvent himself. Greipel is much much smarter than he has been in previous additions and that gives him the optimal sprint distance for him pretty consistently. Cavendish now has to reinvent himself.

Regarding Greipel, He looks much better now than in previous years, maybe that is because the competition is worse, but I think he has improved massively, jumping at the right time every time, doing just enough to fend Sagan off. Which is exactly right. Maybe he can be the new Cipo. With some old age sprinting.

Now Sagan, he has been the fastest in the last 20m both stages, but he really actually needs to sprint against Andre before we can say he's faster
 
Mar 13, 2015
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Happy dude said:
DFA123 said:
Happy dude said:
People saying cav has lost it. He hasn't lost anything, Greipel has just been much smarter on 2 stages so far. Letting cav lead him out. And since they've both been headwind finishes. That was the correct thing to do.

But I do hope Cavendish doesn't apportion blame to his team again today. Yes they went too early again but he should've known that everyone would die in the headwind and should've kicked at 150, not 300
He's clearly lost the acceleration and top speed that he had even 2 or 3 years ago. He used to win stages despite dodgy positioning or poor timing - now he only wins if he gets everything spot on tactically.
Yes I think he's lost acceleration as you would expect with age. I think his speed is still there. But to say he has completely lost it is defeatist(or optimistic in some peoples cases)

But I think he just needs to use his head more. It is not 2009 anymore and he can't just destroy everyone regardless of everything. He needs to start being smart about it. For example, a good bet is to sit on kristoffs wheel cuz he always goes early. Perfect lead out.

Another thing he has lost is his aggression, he does not want to get injured anymore. And isn't as aggressive for positioning. I think he is actually going through the stage greipel was going through for the last couple of seasons. Trying to reinvent himself. Greipel is much much smarter than he has been in previous additions and that gives him the optimal sprint distance for him pretty consistently. Cavendish now has to reinvent himself.

Regarding Greipel, He looks much better now than in previous years, maybe that is because the competition is worse, but I think he has improved massively, jumping at the right time every time, doing just enough to fend Sagan off. Which is exactly right. Maybe he can be the new Cipo. With some old age sprinting.

Now Sagan, he has been the fastest in the last 20m both stages, but he really actually needs to sprint against Andre before we can say he's faster
He was on that wheel today...
 
Jul 27, 2014
376
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Re: Re:

Mr.White said:
Happy dude said:
DFA123 said:
Happy dude said:
People saying cav has lost it. He hasn't lost anything, Greipel has just been much smarter on 2 stages so far. Letting cav lead him out. And since they've both been headwind finishes. That was the correct thing to do.

But I do hope Cavendish doesn't apportion blame to his team again today. Yes they went too early again but he should've known that everyone would die in the headwind and should've kicked at 150, not 300
He's clearly lost the acceleration and top speed that he had even 2 or 3 years ago. He used to win stages despite dodgy positioning or poor timing - now he only wins if he gets everything spot on tactically.
Yes I think he's lost acceleration as you would expect with age. I think his speed is still there. But to say he has completely lost it is defeatist(or optimistic in some peoples cases)

But I think he just needs to use his head more. It is not 2009 anymore and he can't just destroy everyone regardless of everything. He needs to start being smart about it. For example, a good bet is to sit on kristoffs wheel cuz he always goes early. Perfect lead out.

Another thing he has lost is his aggression, he does not want to get injured anymore. And isn't as aggressive for positioning. I think he is actually going through the stage greipel was going through for the last couple of seasons. Trying to reinvent himself. Greipel is much much smarter than he has been in previous additions and that gives him the optimal sprint distance for him pretty consistently. Cavendish now has to reinvent himself.

Regarding Greipel, He looks much better now than in previous years, maybe that is because the competition is worse, but I think he has improved massively, jumping at the right time every time, doing just enough to fend Sagan off. Which is exactly right. Maybe he can be the new Cipo. With some old age sprinting.

Now Sagan, he has been the fastest in the last 20m both stages, but he really actually needs to sprint against Andre before we can say he's faster
He was on that wheel today...
But he jumped far far too early
 

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