2015 Vuelta stage 1: Puerto Banús > Marbella 7.4km TTT

[sir fly]

To cap it all

Hopefully, they'll find a way to keep the stage both safe and competitive.

 

[plooton]

So what bikes are they gonna pick? Full Suspension or hard-tails?

 

[plooton]

Re:

To cap it all

Hopefully, they'll find a way to keep the stage both safe and competitive.

Yep. Spot on!

 

[Sasquatch]

This is good. It's a great route.

 

[WillemS]

Who cares about the riders anyway?

 

[nobilis]

With no bias, I think Movistar will be up there. They're usually good at taking risks in such short TTTs, although they don't really have the strongest team on paper for that exercise, but they have solid riders like Amador, Erviti, Valverde and good sprinters like Rojas and Ventoso that are very important in such a short TTT.

 

[DFA123]

I really don't get the uproar surrounding this stage. It must just be because it is new and unusual that the riders are moaning, because there are races with far more dangerous conditions. Let's be realistic, which is more dangerous, riding through a couple of mm of sand, or going over the arenberg cobbles?

About 95% of the route is on perfectly surfaced roads, with the last 300m having a short sand section and short wooden section, but with no turns. The road is obviously too narrow for a sprint with a full peloton, but for nine riders working together it is absolutely fine. In reality this is a safer course than the Giro TTT in Belfast, which had loads of 90 degree bends (and manhole covers in the middle of the road), in a city where it is raining as often as not. Humans are notoriously bad as calculating risk though; with much more fear of new and unknown things, rather than things they are used to (even if the latter are objectively more dangerous).

Safety aside though, I think it is a bit of a crass and tacky stage. A bit of a gimmick. I bet Marbella paid the organisers very good money to basically advertise their new promenade..

 

[Rudhy]

With no bias, I think Movistar will be up there. They're usually good at taking risks in such short TTTs, although they don't really have the strongest team on paper for that exercise, but they have solid riders like Amador, Erviti, Valverde and good sprinters like Rojas and Ventoso that are very important in such a short TTT.

Will only make a small difference, but Movistar will be the tenth team to go, whereas Astana will be 20th, and Sky will be last. Therefore the sand sections will possibly be a bit more dangerous for Sky and Astana.

That said, provided that there are no crashes, that should only make a difference of about 5 seconds (but vital for a stage win over 7.4km)

 

[DFA123]

With no bias, I think Movistar will be up there. They're usually good at taking risks in such short TTTs, although they don't really have the strongest team on paper for that exercise, but they have solid riders like Amador, Erviti, Valverde and good sprinters like Rojas and Ventoso that are very important in such a short TTT.

Will only make a small difference, but Movistar will be the tenth team to go, whereas Astana will be 20th, and Sky will be last. Therefore the sand sections will possibly be a bit more dangerous for Sky and Astana.

That said, provided that there are no crashes, that should only make a difference of about 5 seconds (but vital for a stage win over 7.4km)

The sand really isn't going to be a factor. At 50-60 km/h and with no turns, the riders won't even notice the 3mm of sand. It won't slow them down at all.

 

[Ruudz0r]

So will times be neutralized? Guess not as I havent heard anything official about it, but could have missed it.

 

[May0maniac]

Starting order:
1 MTN-Qhubeka 18:48
2 Team Colombia 18:53
3 FDJ 18:58
4 Team Lotto NL - Jumbo 19:03
5 Ag2r La Mondiale 19:08
6 Team Cannondale - Garmin 19:13
7 IAM Cycling 19:18
8 Cofidis 19:23
9 Caja Rural - Seguros RGA 19:28
10 Team Europcar 19:33
11 Orica GreenEDGE 19:38
12 Trek Factory Racing 19:43
13 Tinkoff-Saxo 19:48
14 Team Giant-Alpecin 19:53
15 Etixx-QuickStep 19:58
16 Lotto Soudal 20:03
17 Lampre-Merida 20:08
18 BMC Racing Team 20:13
19 Astana 20:18
20 Movistar Team 20:23
21 Team Sky 20:28
22 Team Katusha 20:33

 

[RedheadDane]

Re:

I really don't get the uproar surrounding this stage. It must just be because it is new and unusual that the riders are moaning, because there are races with far more dangerous conditions. Let's be realistic, which is more dangerous, riding through a couple of mm of sand, or going over the arenberg cobbles?

About 95% of the route is on perfectly surfaced roads, with the last 300m having a short sand section and short wooden section, but with no turns. The road is obviously too narrow for a sprint with a full peloton, but for nine riders working together it is absolutely fine. In reality this is a safer course than the Giro TTT in Belfast, which had loads of 90 degree bends (and manhole covers in the middle of the road), in a city where it is raining as often as not. Humans are notoriously bad as calculating risk though; with much more fear of new and unknown things, rather than things they are used to (even if the latter are objectively more dangerous).

Safety aside though, I think it is a bit of a crass and tacky stage. A bit of a gimmick. I bet Marbella paid the organisers very good money to basically advertise their new promenade..

It's not just a couple of mm of sand, it's a dirt road consisting of tightly packed, well, dirt (earth, sand), which won't be so tightly packed after 20 teams. If it was just a regular road surface with a few mm of sand on top they could simple get out a big broom and clean away the sand.
It's not just a short sand section and a short wooden section in the last 300m either... they start on the beach, as in literally on the beach with a fake "road" created by wooden planks and rubber tiles, onto a wooden bridge, dirt road, tiles, another kind of tiles...
Actually, here's the GCN run-through of the route.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpqaBOJNejI

 

[SafeBet]

Bike of choice for the TTT

Seriously, I think Astana will win it. Some power engines plus excellent bike handlers.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

I really don't get the uproar surrounding this stage. It must just be because it is new and unusual that the riders are moaning, because there are races with far more dangerous conditions. Let's be realistic, which is more dangerous, riding through a couple of mm of sand, or going over the arenberg cobbles?

About 95% of the route is on perfectly surfaced roads, with the last 300m having a short sand section and short wooden section, but with no turns. The road is obviously too narrow for a sprint with a full peloton, but for nine riders working together it is absolutely fine. In reality this is a safer course than the Giro TTT in Belfast, which had loads of 90 degree bends (and manhole covers in the middle of the road), in a city where it is raining as often as not. Humans are notoriously bad as calculating risk though; with much more fear of new and unknown things, rather than things they are used to (even if the latter are objectively more dangerous).

Safety aside though, I think it is a bit of a crass and tacky stage. A bit of a gimmick. I bet Marbella paid the organisers very good money to basically advertise their new promenade..

It's not just a couple of mm of sand, it's a dirt road consisting of tightly packed, well, dirt (earth, sand), which won't be so tightly packed after 20 teams. If it was just a regular road surface with a few mm of sand on top they could simple get out a big broom and clean away the sand.
It's not just a short sand section and a short wooden section in the last 300m either... they start on the beach, as in literally on the beach with a fake "road" created by wooden planks and rubber tiles, onto a wooden bridge, dirt road, tiles, another kind of tiles...
Actually, here's the GCN run-through of the route.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpqaBOJNejI

Seriously? This is what people are complaining about? The same people who were no doubt begging for rain on the cobbles and tricky descents in the Tour?!

If you think riding on those surfaces is hard I seriously suggest you vary where you ride.

 

[SafeBet]

So it's official: this will count only for the team classification. No gaps among riders.

 

[hrotha]

It's a novel approach to minimizing gaps.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

I really don't get the uproar surrounding this stage. It must just be because it is new and unusual that the riders are moaning, because there are races with far more dangerous conditions. Let's be realistic, which is more dangerous, riding through a couple of mm of sand, or going over the arenberg cobbles?

About 95% of the route is on perfectly surfaced roads, with the last 300m having a short sand section and short wooden section, but with no turns. The road is obviously too narrow for a sprint with a full peloton, but for nine riders working together it is absolutely fine. In reality this is a safer course than the Giro TTT in Belfast, which had loads of 90 degree bends (and manhole covers in the middle of the road), in a city where it is raining as often as not. Humans are notoriously bad as calculating risk though; with much more fear of new and unknown things, rather than things they are used to (even if the latter are objectively more dangerous).

Safety aside though, I think it is a bit of a crass and tacky stage. A bit of a gimmick. I bet Marbella paid the organisers very good money to basically advertise their new promenade..

It's not just a couple of mm of sand, it's a dirt road consisting of tightly packed, well, dirt (earth, sand), which won't be so tightly packed after 20 teams. If it was just a regular road surface with a few mm of sand on top they could simple get out a big broom and clean away the sand.
It's not just a short sand section and a short wooden section in the last 300m either... they start on the beach, as in literally on the beach with a fake "road" created by wooden planks and rubber tiles, onto a wooden bridge, dirt road, tiles, another kind of tiles...
Actually, here's the GCN run-through of the route.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpqaBOJNejI

Seriously? This is what people are complaining about? The same people who were no doubt begging for rain on the cobbles and tricky descents in the Tour?!

If you think riding on those surfaces is hard I seriously suggest you vary where you ride.

I guess you could make a case for the dirt road being okay, as it's still in the spirit of the ride on the existing roads in the landscape part of the sport, but the rubber tiles on top of wooden planks section on the beach? I'm pretty sure having to build a "road" doesn't count as using the existing roads.

And why would I need to vary where I ride? I'm a cyclist, not a (pro) bike rider; I ride my bike to get to places, most of those doesn't take me across a dirt road, but if one day I had to go somewhere where the shortest/easiest route would take me over a dirt road or cobbles, I'd of course take that route.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

I really don't get the uproar surrounding this stage. It must just be because it is new and unusual that the riders are moaning, because there are races with far more dangerous conditions. Let's be realistic, which is more dangerous, riding through a couple of mm of sand, or going over the arenberg cobbles?

About 95% of the route is on perfectly surfaced roads, with the last 300m having a short sand section and short wooden section, but with no turns. The road is obviously too narrow for a sprint with a full peloton, but for nine riders working together it is absolutely fine. In reality this is a safer course than the Giro TTT in Belfast, which had loads of 90 degree bends (and manhole covers in the middle of the road), in a city where it is raining as often as not. Humans are notoriously bad as calculating risk though; with much more fear of new and unknown things, rather than things they are used to (even if the latter are objectively more dangerous).

Safety aside though, I think it is a bit of a crass and tacky stage. A bit of a gimmick. I bet Marbella paid the organisers very good money to basically advertise their new promenade..

It's not just a couple of mm of sand, it's a dirt road consisting of tightly packed, well, dirt (earth, sand), which won't be so tightly packed after 20 teams. If it was just a regular road surface with a few mm of sand on top they could simple get out a big broom and clean away the sand.
It's not just a short sand section and a short wooden section in the last 300m either... they start on the beach, as in literally on the beach with a fake "road" created by wooden planks and rubber tiles, onto a wooden bridge, dirt road, tiles, another kind of tiles...
Actually, here's the GCN run-through of the route.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpqaBOJNejI

Seriously? This is what people are complaining about? The same people who were no doubt begging for rain on the cobbles and tricky descents in the Tour?!

If you think riding on those surfaces is hard I seriously suggest you vary where you ride.

I guess you could make a case for the dirt road being okay, as it's still in the spirit of the ride on the existing roads in the landscape part of the sport, but the rubber tiles on top of wooden planks section on the beach? I'm pretty sure having to build a "road" doesn't count as using the existing roads.

And why would I need to vary where I ride? I'm a cyclist, not a (pro) bike rider; I ride my bike to get to places, most of those doesn't take me across a dirt road, but if one day I had to go somewhere where the shortest/easiest route would take me over a dirt road or cobbles, I'd of course take that route.

Existing roads? Road are constantly torn up and changed, repaired, maintained specifically for events (Paris Roubiax etc.). Those rubber tiles will be grippy as all hell and unless the boardwalk gets soaking wet and contains sharp corners they'll hardly even notice it.

If you've never ridden on surfaces like that I'm not sure how you can comment on how dangerous they are, I watched that video and instantly wanted to have it clear so I could blast along it in a pace line. However it wasn't a general comment to you personally, I quoted you as you posted the video.

But as you replied, did you at any point in the TdF hope for tricky conditions on a difficult part of the race?

 

[zalacain]

Re: Re:

Existing roads? Road are constantly torn up and changed, repaired, maintained specifically for events (Paris Roubiax etc.).

Anybody who has ridden early season events in the Pyrenees can attest to that. The Aubisque and Tourmalet are like cyclo cross before they resurface them

 

[BeagRigh]

Looking at the GCN video I'd be happy with that as a technically prologue (as KB says rough roads, dirt roads, changes in surface etc are all part of the sport) but I think there is a big difference between doing that and riding it as a TTT

 

[Lance Armstrong]

Dirt road is fine, but what a stupid idea to have it on Stage 1 and as a TTT. What would they do if it's raining? Hitting the wet wooden section at 55km/h is just wrong.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

Existing roads? Road are constantly torn up and changed, repaired, maintained specifically for events (Paris Roubiax etc.).

Anybody who has ridden early season events in the Pyrenees can attest to that. The Aubisque and Tourmalet are like cyclo cross before they resurface them

There has never been, nor will there ever be, a road on that beach, it's a beach.
There's a difference between having a road you need to repair for an event, such as the P-R pavees, and having to actually build a "road" before an event, only to remove it once the event is over.
But I guess it's easy to call it safe when you're not the one who has to ride over it at 50+ KpH.

 

[jsem94]

The riders were bitching too much. Shouldn't have bent to their will and neutralized the times.

 

[hrotha]

I still think this talk about dirt roads is misleading. Dirt roads are still roads; loose sand is an entirely different matter.

 

[armchairclimber]

It actually looks as though it will make for quite a fun spectacle. You'll certainly have good landmarks to see how teams are fairing relative to each other. I think early teams will be favoured. That compact dirt track is actually quite bumpy in places, but firm. I think it will cut up and get slower as the event progresses.