2015 Vuelta stage 2: Alhaurín de la Torre / Caminito del Rey

[sir fly]

I think the disqualification is too harsh. It's probably more than just a penalty for the violation it's addressed to.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

Nibali's gone

This could have just as easily have been Aru if the team had given Nibs priority after that wreck. Wonder if that will stick in his craw?

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

Quintana lost nearly 30 seconds in 1.5 km. That's not really good pacing.

30 seconds? He never had a 30 seconds lead over Rodriguez et al.

To Chaves and Dumoulin.

Yes, but that's misleading because everyone else lost time to Chaves and Dumolin as well.

 

[roundabout]

You wrote that he paced himself.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Update: They're planning to DQ Nibali but Astana is asking for leniency: 10 minutes penalty instead of Nibali going home.

I'd be fine with that. He probably shouldn't get a chance to contest GC, but that would keep a big name in and allow him to animate the race and go for stage wins.

Not sure that really punishes Astana though. It solves their leadership issues and basically gives them a rider who will now be happy to go for stage wins, rather than causing friction with a GC challenge.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re:

You wrote that he paced himself.

He did pace himself? Alone he lost 30 seconds. Everyone else lost 20 seconds and they had the advantage of riding as a group.

Edit: Rodriguez lost approximately 16 seconds, Froome 20 seconds, Valverde 21, Aru 27 etc.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Wonder how Aru feels about that

 

[BigMac]

Astana can't deploy more than one team car now, so they have been punished too.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

I think the disqualification is too harsh. It's probably more than just a penalty for the violation it's addressed to.

Nah, it was too blatant and direct, to too much gain, and, importantly, it was seen and broadcast and therefore had to be addressed.

The rules on this are a DQ, I thought cos it was a big name and it's only the first road stage they'd give a significant time penalty (the rule breach was more egregious than most so would yield a bigger one, I suggested 5'00 but 10'00 would have also been fine) as a compromise, but instead they've gone for the full application of the rule. Which is also fine.

It also prevents any arguments, really. The talk of how fans would have reacted differently if it was a different rider who got away with that is now made irrelevant, because he didn't get away with it.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

You wrote that he paced himself.

He cracked in the last 1.5 km according to him.

He cracked just like in Ventoux or just like in Ax 3 Domaines.

The hill was a little on the short side and he still has cold legs IMHO.

Cannot read much yet.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

You wrote that he paced himself.

He cracked in the last 1.5 km according to him.

He cracked just like in Ventoux or just like in Ax 3 Domaines.

The hill was a little on the short side and he still has cold legs IMHO.

Cannot read much yet.

Agreed. Everyone is reading way too much into Quintana losing a few seconds to the other favorites in the final 1.5 km's.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

You wrote that he paced himself.

He did pace himself? Alone he lost 30 seconds. Everyone else lost 20 seconds and they had the advantage of riding as a group.

What the **** are you on?! Who lost 20 seconds?! The group was way behind, probably around 30 seconds, maybe even more. Quintana cracked badly, even he said that!

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

You wrote that he paced himself.

He did pace himself? Alone he lost 30 seconds. Everyone else lost 20 seconds and they had the advantage of riding as a group.

What the **** are you on?! Who lost 20 seconds?! The group was way behind, probably around 30 seconds, maybe even more. Quintana cracked badly, even he said that!

Well, I might be mistaken but I don't think Quintana ever had close to a 30 seconds gap.

 

[roundabout]

Re: Re:

You wrote that he paced himself.

He cracked in the last 1.5 km according to him.

He cracked just like in Ventoux or just like in Ax 3 Domaines.

The hill was a little on the short side and he still has cold legs IMHO.

Cannot read much yet.

It was obvious to most people except the one poster in this thread that he had cracked.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Wonder how Aru feels about that

Stealing a picture from Big Mac's post:

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[roundabout]

1 team car though, so less room for team tactics in the multi-mountain stages

Edit: only for the next couple of stages it seems.

 

[hrotha]

Re:

I think a multiple minute time penalty is appropriate, a DQ from the race definitely isn't. I mean, he didn't gain any advantage for the upcoming stages or whatever by doing what he did, nor did he put the safety of other riders in danger.

Of course he did - he would have managed to stay in contention for the GC, and he'd have saved some energy on top of that.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

You wrote that he paced himself.

He cracked in the last 1.5 km according to him.

He cracked just like in Ventoux or just like in Ax 3 Domaines.

The hill was a little on the short side and he still has cold legs IMHO.

Cannot read much yet.

It was obvious to most people except the one poster in this thread that he had cracked.

My initial point was that people was reading way too much into Quintana losing time in the last 1.5 km. I never said that he didn't crack. What I said was that Quintana was the strongest of the GC favorites today and I think that he was. Noone was able to follow him. And if he did "crack" it's just even more impressive that he still managed to pace himself up and never getting caught by anyone but Rodriguez.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

I think the disqualification is too harsh. It's probably more than just a penalty for the violation it's addressed to.

Nah, it was too blatant and direct, to too much gain, and, importantly, it was seen and broadcast and therefore had to be addressed.

The rules on this are a DQ, I thought cos it was a big name and it's only the first road stage they'd give a significant time penalty (the rule breach was more egregious than most so would yield a bigger one, I suggested 5'00 but 10'00 would have also been fine) as a compromise, but instead they've gone for the full application of the rule. Which is also fine.

It also prevents any arguments, really. The talk of how fans would have reacted differently if it was a different rider who got away with that is now made irrelevant, because he didn't get away with it.

The arguments for the decision are spot on, but my thoughts against it are pretty much like yours.
The race has lost just as much as Astana.

 

[jsem94]

It wasn't too harsh. It was the right thing to do to send Nibali home. While it isn't fair that he got left behind because of the crash, it doesn't justify what he and the DS did.

Good luck in his future races.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Just caught up with highlights, wow what a dramatic stage! Firstly congrats to Chavez, a really good win after just missing out on pink at the Giro.

The penalty to Nibali is fair I suppose, although I expected only a time penalty. More drama for Astana! At least that solves the leadership debate now for Aru, though the race loses a big player.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

I think a multiple minute time penalty is appropriate, a DQ from the race definitely isn't. I mean, he didn't gain any advantage for the upcoming stages or whatever by doing what he did, nor did he put the safety of other riders in danger.

Of course he did - he would have managed to stay in contention for the GC, and he'd have saved some energy on top of that.

Hence why I plead for a multiple minute penalty so he's out of gc contention. And whatever tiny amount of energy he saved there sure is not going to have any sort of impact on next days.

 

[WildspokeJoe]

Give him a time penalty.5:00 minutes. But don't throw him out. This Vuelta was shaping up to be one of the best now you lose one of the better riders.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Give him a time penalty.5:00 minutes. But don't throw him out. This Vuelta was shaping up to be one of the best now you lose one of the better riders.

It's not in the rules though. According to the rules it is either a 'push off a car' which is a 10 second penalty, or holding onto the car, which is DQ. 10 seconds seems far too lenient so they had to DQ him.

It's a dangerous game to start making up arbitary time penalties outside of the rules.

 

[Stilletto]

Nibali gone shame but rules are rules.
Let's hope for consistency at least
Anyway did anyone see Tiralongos face ??? Wow now that is a warrior
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=897251923690585

Check out this from his Twitter