2016 Critérium du Dauphiné, 2.UWT, June 5-12

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

This is the sort of performance from Lil'Richie here that riders like Aru and Pinot just haven't shown they're capable of, and is why he is in a tier with them for the Tour despite his lacking consistency

Exactly if Porte can be consistent his besides t is so much higher then those two

Difference is that Aru has actually won a GT and podiums in 2 or 3 others. Porte had a Top 10 like 6 years ago.

It is just a question of luck and bad luck in these cases.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Porte doing well here is not surprising because he's almost always gone well in MTTs. As for saying Froome's a bit behind, the point is that the Grand Départ is still a month away. Saying Porte belongs a tier above Pinot (who's podiumed the Tour) and Aru (who's won a GT and podiumed two others) when his GT record in the GC is still not any better than Paolo Bettini's is jumping the gun big-time. He's never shown the recovery to do it consistently over 3 weeks and has always had a jour sans that's hurt him along the way to date; he needs to show he can erase that issue and being on stupendous form for the Dauphiné isn't always ideal if you can't hold it all the way to the end of the upcoming GT. This is why going from the Ardennes to the Giro has always been a difficult challenge in recent years, because late mountain stages can often see somebody who was in form early running out of steam.

I think people are misinterpreting SeriousSam and my posts.

If only Pinot Aru and Porte turned up to the start line of a GT, I would certainly rate both Aru and Pinot's chances of winning considerably more than Porte's chances, because of Porte's tendency to have a couple of awful days, which you cannot afford in a grand tour.

But the point is, when Contador Froome or Quintana turn up, assuming none of them crash out/get ill/DQ/whatever, Pinot and Aru simply aren't capable of matching those 3 on the climbs or the TTs (well Contador and Froome in the TT at least). Porte, however, is capable of both. So while, in all likelihood, Porte will have a couple of bad days and drop out of contention, he is still more likely than Aru and Pinot to win the GT, considering he's the only one of the 3 that currently has the ability to match the big 3.

That still doesn't address one key issue:

Why do you think it's more likely that Porte will suddenly, at the age of 31, find the ability to recover with the best in Grand Tours, than it is that Aru or Pinot will make a small step up in ability to be able to hang with Froome or Contador on the climbs?

It's been 13 months since we last saw Porte leading a team. There's more of a chance that Porte will have suddenly gained that ability in the 14 months between last year's Giro and this year's Tour than there is that Aru or Pinot will suddenly gain the ability to hang on to CF AC NQ within a month. Not to mention that this small improvement in climbing won't come without a deterioration in TTing, and they're already behind in terms of TTing ability as it is as well

It's obvious that Porte has lost some weight. I think Aru and Pinot have no chance of making the podium at the Tour and I think Porte has to do something this year or just forget GTs. Contador has not made the Tour podium since 2010. I think Quintana will be Froome's main rival in the Tour.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

A snippet from Contador's post-race interview:

“It was a very hard time trial, especially from km 2 to 1km to go. I've tried to speed up but it was hard to change rhythm. The climb suited me really well. I knew I could time trial well on this course but I didn't know if I was able to win it. I started flat out and I had good legs. I didn't expect to win but I can't say it's a surprise to beat Chris Froome. It's just been a perfect day and I'll take the race day by day from now on. The time gaps are very small and Team Sky came to the Dauphiné for winning. They even have four or five different riders able to win the overall classification. It would be complicated for my team to control the race from now till the end and it would be too demanding. My goal remains to prepare for the Tour de France more than the overall classification of the Dauphiné.”

I wonder if he was asked if he was surprised he beat Froome....

Honestly tho is anyone actually surprised that he beat Froome? Froome has yet to take the crown from Contador untill that actually happens we can talk about beeing surprised. And NO non objective Froome fans, beating a tired Contador who just had won the giro does not count.

Who is suggesting it? A moderate neutral fan?

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

That would have been a great MTT for Bala, a short, explosive effort on super steep ramps, Dan Martin and Alaphilippe did really well, it would have been almost perfect for a really punchy climber who's great on really steep climbs.

Piti isn't that good on super steep ramps. Jesus man, where do people get that from?

Ever heard of a race called La Flèche Wallonne?

Which isn't really that super steep and piti always waits for the flat part.

Martin, Contador, froome, henao and purito are all better than him on super steep ramps.

Martin and Froome I don't think so... Henao only in his absolute top shape, Contador is better and Purito is the king of the steep stuff

 

[Tonton]

A lot of off-topic posts, really. And/or fantasy cycling...

In the real world, there was a race today, and the clock spoke: Contador won. I believe that dismissing his win as a detail would be mistaken. But there's a lot more racing to do. Whomever prevails will have a significant psychological edge heading into July IMO. Froome has the team, Bertie needs the edge. That's how I see it.

Porte? We shall see. Pinot? Today was to be expected. Aru? Unless he steps up, he'll wake up one morning as Nibali's dom for the TdF.

 

[portugal11]

A lot of off-topic posts, really. And/or fantasy cycling...

In the real world, there was a race today, and the clock spoke: Contador won. I believe that dismissing his win as a detail would be mistaken. But there's a lot more racing to do. Whomever prevails will have a significant psychological edge heading into July IMO. Froome has the team, Bertie needs the edge. That's how I see it.

Porte? We shall see. Pinot? Today was to be expected. Aru? Unless he steps up, he'll wake up one morning as Nibali's dom for the TdF.

No way aru will be nibali's dom. Nibali with giro's shape will be crushed by froome, quintana or contador. Even a pinot or aru would beat him fair and square

 

[Mr.White]

Contador is right, this is Sky's race to control and to win/lose. They have 4-5 riders who can win this race. Contador will only watch Froome and maybe Porte and he hasn't got a strong team at his disposal who could control things. My guess is he will let 2nd tiers to escape and then what happens-happens.

 

[Publicus]

Re: Re:

I really hope Sky will try a more agressive strategy throughout the stages to attack and isolate Contador instead of isolating him by burning their own men. I want Froome to win, but with Contador ahead of them, it bodes well for exciting racing.

Come on Sky can isolate Contador easily and still have 4-5 riders up there. Not an issue I guess

Kreuziger is a rider at a similar level than Poels. Today he was one of the few riding with rain. No way 5 SKY riders and Contador alon, but Contador said he doenst mind a lot GC...(wich is not totally true)

I think Contador is fine with this test. He'll follow Froome, but I doubt he'll waste energy going for the overall. The TdF is his focus, not the Dauphine. Porte could pick up a nice overall victory here.

 

[Publicus]

Re: Re:

A snippet from Contador's post-race interview:

“It was a very hard time trial, especially from km 2 to 1km to go. I've tried to speed up but it was hard to change rhythm. The climb suited me really well. I knew I could time trial well on this course but I didn't know if I was able to win it. I started flat out and I had good legs. I didn't expect to win but I can't say it's a surprise to beat Chris Froome. It's just been a perfect day and I'll take the race day by day from now on. The time gaps are very small and Team Sky came to the Dauphiné for winning. They even have four or five different riders able to win the overall classification. It would be complicated for my team to control the race from now till the end and it would be too demanding. My goal remains to prepare for the Tour de France more than the overall classification of the Dauphiné.”

I wonder if he was asked if he was surprised he beat Froome....

Honestly tho is anyone actually surprised that he beat Froome? Froome has yet to take the crown from Contador untill that actually happens we can talk about beeing surprised. And NO non objective Froome fans, beating a tired Contador who just had won the giro does not count.

2013 TdF Froome delivered a butt kicking to Contador. That was the wake up call IMO.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Contador is right, this is Sky's race to control and to win/lose. They have 4-5 riders who can win this race. Contador will only watch Froome and maybe Porte and he hasn't got a strong team at his disposal who could control things. My guess is he will let 2nd tiers to escape and then what happens-happens.

I think Contador shouldn't be focusing so much on Sky and Froome, and should just ride his own race. He clearly sees Froome as the big rival - but I'm not sure it's constructive to only focus on one rider and plan your tactics around them. He's already lost one Dauphine by doing this.

He should just ride to win the race, be more aggressive like he is when he's at his best. Not just passively sit and mark Froome while someone else goes up the road to win.

 

[Vasilis]

Re:

Contador is right, this is Sky's race to control and to win/lose. They have 4-5 riders who can win this race. Contador will only watch Froome and maybe Porte and he hasn't got a strong team at his disposal who could control things. My guess is he will let 2nd tiers to escape and then what happens-happens.

He's just trying to divert the pressure, because he is the one in the leader's jersey, so the responsibility falls on his team. And Sky don't actually have five riders that can go for GC, Henao isn't good enough right now, judging from his TT, and I don't Kwiatkowski can really go for the overall here, he's not good enough in the mountains. Three is still more than one, but Contador should take responsibility right now.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

A snippet from Contador's post-race interview:

“It was a very hard time trial, especially from km 2 to 1km to go. I've tried to speed up but it was hard to change rhythm. The climb suited me really well. I knew I could time trial well on this course but I didn't know if I was able to win it. I started flat out and I had good legs. I didn't expect to win but I can't say it's a surprise to beat Chris Froome. It's just been a perfect day and I'll take the race day by day from now on. The time gaps are very small and Team Sky came to the Dauphiné for winning. They even have four or five different riders able to win the overall classification. It would be complicated for my team to control the race from now till the end and it would be too demanding. My goal remains to prepare for the Tour de France more than the overall classification of the Dauphiné.”

I wonder if he was asked if he was surprised he beat Froome....

Honestly tho is anyone actually surprised that he beat Froome? Froome has yet to take the crown from Contador untill that actually happens we can talk about beeing surprised. And NO non objective Froome fans, beating a tired Contador who just had won the giro does not count.

Who is suggesting it? A moderate neutral fan?

Well, Contador showed he is at his level:



check_six Registered User
17-Jul-2013 15:45
#118

Woah, Bertie is flying. 17" up on Rodriguez


check_six Registered User
17-Jul-2013 15:58
#132

Froome only the bare 20 seconds behind Contador's time at the second split.
MrMischief's Avatar
MrMischief Registered User
17-Jul-2013 15:58
#133

Berie 20secs up @ 2nd split.....the stage for the taking!

This is how finished that ITT with 2 climbs,,, in the firt part Contador flyed:

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=24045

But never forget that Contador is the same of this one:

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=24046

 

[Taxus4a]

Being objetive, that is the reallity so far, maybe Contador is superstrong and he can win le Tour, but today performance is not a surprise, and even when Froome has beated him very clearly Contador did performances like today.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re:

Being objetive, that is the reallity so far, maybe Contador is superstrong and he can win le Tour, but today performance is not a surprise, and even when Froome has beated him very clearly Contador did performances like today.

2013 again hahah

You're completely deluded, you're gonna realise it very soon as per usual.

 

[Tonton]

A lot of off-topic posts, really. And/or fantasy cycling...

In the real world, there was a race today, and the clock spoke: Contador won. I believe that dismissing his win as a detail would be mistaken. But there's a lot more racing to do. Whomever prevails will have a significant psychological edge heading into July IMO. Froome has the team, Bertie needs the edge. That's how I see it.

Porte? We shall see. Pinot? Today was to be expected. Aru? Unless he steps up, he'll wake up one morning as Nibali's dom for the TdF.

No way aru will be nibali's dom. Nibali with giro's shape will be crushed by froome, quintana or contador. Even a pinot or aru would beat him fair and square

Never say never, my friend. I can imagine plenty of scenarii that would make it possible...it has happened before.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re:

Being objetive, that is the reallity so far, maybe Contador is superstrong and he can win le Tour, but today performance is not a surprise, and even when Froome has beated him very clearly Contador did performances like today.

Certainly not in 2013... If I remember correctly Alberto lost time to Froome already on the first MTN stage to Valmorel in Dauphine 2013. With the shape Alberto is displaying at the moment, that would never happen again.

 

[matusow_m]

That taxus guy the same who thought Landa would loose 5 mintues to Nibali in the giro TT?

 

[BlurryVII]

Re:

That taxus guy the same who thought Landa would loose 5 mintues to Nibali in the giro TT?

Same guy who thinks Landa is gonna win this Dauphiné 'very easy' because he comes out of the Giro.

He's already 45 secs off LOL

 

[Publicus]

Re:

Being objetive, that is the reallity so far, maybe Contador is superstrong and he can win le Tour, but today performance is not a surprise, and even when Froome has beated him very clearly Contador did performances like today.

You're a lot of things Taxus, but you're not objective on this subject.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

That taxus guy the same who thought Landa would loose 5 mintues to Nibali in the giro TT?

Same guy who thinks Landa is gonna win this Dauphiné 'very easy' because he comes out of the Giro.

He's already 45 secs off LOL

lol, you are unbearable. be more tolerant to people with different opinions and life will get easier

 

[matusow_m]

The reality is that this Froome v Contador thing is so stupid, fact is in reality Froome v Contador going head to head equal terms Contador has always gotten the better of him and once again did today (and this is despite Contador not beeing at this best career wice so that alone should just tell you everything you need) all Froome can show for is beating a Contador who just won the Giro so in all fairness guys regardless of this will hurt someone or not thats just the facts based by the results! I mean its not exactly hard to figure out... Untill it actually happens then chapeau Froome I myself think that will be Quintana if its gonne be anyone before he retires.

 

[Matteo.]

Again with Porte and the "dream" to see him on the podium of a GT ?!!

 

[DFA123]

I think Bardet could be the dark horse for the win now. This year's Talansky. A decent TT has kept him in contention and he's just about low profile enough to perhaps be allowed up the road while Froome, Contador and Porte all look at each other.

He knows the roads well and, with some rain and thunderstorms forecast, he may be prepared to take a few more risks with his handling to get an advantage.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

I think Bardet could be the dark horse for the win now. This year's Talansky. A decent TT has kept him in contention and he's just about low profile enough to perhaps be allowed up the road while Froome, Contador and Porte all look at each other.

He knows the roads well and, with some rain and thunderstorms forecast, he may be prepared to take a few more risks with his handling to get an advantage.

That would be pretty cool, even if the result would be a huge amount of pressure and huge expectations by the French media and fans.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

When Contador says he is only thinking about the Tour and its only preparation, we all know what will happen. He might as well tell the truth, that way, it will be much harder to predict what will happen - is he actually telling the truth or lying?

Contador ahead of Porte and Froomey.

Nostradamus strikes again.

Seriously tho, Bertie is soooooo predictable. Gosh, Bertie, I can't stop to admire you on a day like this, but make it harder.