2016 Liège Bastogne Liège, April 24th, WT 253 km

[trevim]

Well I think Sky deserves to win a monument. They've probably been the team that has been constantly trying to attack to win since Stannard went on Cipressa. Poels is a very good rider, maybe not very consistent but it's good to see some fresh names taking big races. Kwiat bonked yet again or what?

Regarding Rui Costa I think he deserved the 3rd place but not more: he buried himself going after Albasini on the cobbles and he never took a pull or tried to attack. He looked pretty much cooked. He would have a great career if he could take Lombardia and Liege but the truth is that he's never the best rider, there's always stronger riders to break him. Great effort though, I hope he can take some wins in his next few races and hopefully have a good late season targetting Lombardia. About Lampre, it's just the price to pay to be a leader: he's not good enough to lead a major team so he has to do with a 3rd rate team in the biggest races; I think it suits him.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

There were four riders at the finish - Who cares how many riders are left with 3km to go.

?????



This is why I said you need to work on your comprehensive reading skills. You've been arguing with people who think that it is problematic that the selection only happens in the last few km, because they like to see action for more than a few minutes. That's the entire point. You're welcome to disagree of course, but then you need to attack the point that you disagree with, not just say 'who cares?' Honestly, either you're trolling or you've failed to grasp the point of this entire discussion.

If you continue to fail employing basic comprehensive reading skills I will stop replying to you and assume you're either trolling or simply refuse to try and understand the people you are arguing with; in either case further discussion would be quite fruitless.

I got it ! - You expect riders to ride flat out for 253km ? - Its you who live in fantasy land.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Re: Re:

I got it ! - You expect riders to ride flat out for 253km ? - Its you who live in fantasy land.

To improve your discussion skills I present you this helpful article about the fallacy of a false dilemma:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

 

[Cannibal72]

Re:

That Albasini/Réza thing was settled by the riders themselves the day after. But some people need to stir this up years after again and again. Get a life.

Some comments reveal so much about someone's personality and mindset that it's naïve to gloss over them because just one of the many people affected (the very point of a racist jibe is that it involves and hurts a whole group of people - people that this sport hasn't exactly done a lot to welcome - not one individual) has apparently been good enough to forgive the perpetrator - not that we know Reza even did that or that he did so willingly. If Albasini had called Reza a dirty c**t, then your point would be valid, but he didn't, and that's that.

 

[DNP-Old]

Re: Re:

Some people on here are the biggest moaners in the universe

Riders should have done this or that ....the conditions, the length of the race and strength of teams make long range attacks suicidal

Suicidal, so what? I'd rather try something and finish 48th, than to finish 9th or w/e doing nothing. But yay for my 4 World Tour points I guess.

No you wouldn't.

Yes, I would. That's why I said it.

No you wouldn't.

Yes, I would. Period.

You don't have to tell me what I would or wouldn't want.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

'It's riders who make the race' is possibly the single most banal, unanalytical, meaningless pat aphorism in all of cycling. The course makes the race and determines the decisions that riders make.

Well you better give this advice to Nibali - Ask Nibs to retract his statement that riders determine how a race is ridden in the news section of this forum - Reckon, I'd rather trust the opinion of a professional cyclist than a forum contributor.

Sportsman makes banal comment in interview presumably either conducted in or translated from a foreign language. People all over the world drop dead from the sheer shock.

 

[yaco]

Gerrans has never been a sprinter and Sagan has lost his sprinting prowess in the last 2 years. You say its not about Gerrans but yet he is referenced in the reactivated thread LBL and 2014 and some other silly new thread - I consider Garrans win in LBL to be a fluke - He's always a bit off the top riders on the hills of LB,L but won the day through good teamwork from OGE.

I thought todays race was more interesting than Fleche Wallone. Some are of the mistaken belief that riders can attack for 253km of a race - You are in fantasy land if you believe this is a case - It's tough to attack at the backend of a big race when the peleton is riding at 45-50kms phr - Not every rider is Cancellara.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

'It's riders who make the race' is possibly the single most banal, unanalytical, meaningless pat aphorism in all of cycling. The course makes the race and determines the decisions that riders make.

Well you better give this advice to Nibali - Ask Nibs to retract his statement that riders determine how a race is ridden in the news section of this forum - Reckon, I'd rather trust the opinion of a professional cyclist than a forum contributor.

Sportsman makes banal comment in interview presumably either conducted in or translated from a foreign language. People all over the world drop dead from the sheer shock.

Yeah - You can dig under any rock to find something that supports your flawed argument.

 

[TMP402]

First time the first 4 monuments of the season have been won by first-time monument winners since 2004: Freire/Wesemann/Backstedt/Rebellin.

Edit: and Cunego won his first monument at Lombardia that year too.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re:

First time the first 4 monuments of the season have been won by first-time monument winners since 2004: Freire/Wesemann/Backstedt/Rebellin.

As I posted above, the debut monument wins streak was only broken when Boonen took Roubaix in 2005 - the previous week he won his first monument, just as Petacchi did in La Primavera.

Of course Nibali pushes this streak out to 5.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

'It's riders who make the race' is possibly the single most banal, unanalytical, meaningless pat aphorism in all of cycling. The course makes the race and determines the decisions that riders make.

Well you better give this advice to Nibali - Ask Nibs to retract his statement that riders determine how a race is ridden in the news section of this forum - Reckon, I'd rather trust the opinion of a professional cyclist than a forum contributor.

Sportsman makes banal comment in interview presumably either conducted in or translated from a foreign language. People all over the world drop dead from the sheer shock.

Yeah - You can dig under any rock to find something that supports your flawed argument.

That your argument relies on brief pre-race chitchat, which is not a format widely noted for its room for nuane or appreciation for sophistication, shows pretty conclusively which one is flawed.

 

[TMP402]

I make it 1960 the previous time all 5 monuments were won by first time monument winners, and 1966 the previous time the first 4 were all first time monument winners.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Gerrans has never been a sprinter and Sagan has lost his sprinting prowess in the last 2 years. You say its not about Gerrans but yet he is referenced in the reactivated thread LBL and 2014 and some other silly new thread - I consider Garrans win in LBL to be a fluke - He's always a bit off the top riders on the hills of LB,L but won the day through good teamwork from OGE.

I thought todays race was more interesting than Fleche Wallone. Some are of the mistaken belief that riders can attack for 253km of a race - You are in fantasy land if you believe this is a case - It's tough to attack at the backend of a big race when the peleton is riding at 45-50kms phr - Not every rider is Cancellara.

Why do we live in fantasy land although we are talking about things that really happened. Why do we live in fantasy land although we make realistic suggestions how to make the race better again. You talk about this race as if there has never been a successful attack in LBL from earlier than the final climb.

About the rest of your post, Sagan was still the probably 2nd or 3rd best sprinter in last years tour and won a bunch sprint in the vuelta and I simply don't understand what you want to say with your 2nd line.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Re:

I thought todays race was more interesting than Fleche Wallone. Some are of the mistaken belief that riders can attack for 253km of a race - You are in fantasy land if you believe this is a case - It's tough to attack at the backend of a big race when the peleton is riding at 45-50kms phr - Not every rider is Cancellara.

Some people seem to think that you either attack 3km from the finish or 253km from the finish. Some people didn't read the helpful link about false dilemmas I posted for them, so that they continue to employ the same fallacy.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Kreuziger's results here: 4th (2011), 5th (2015), 7th (2014,2016)...always there, always looking strong, but no podium for him. I hope he will win this one day

Yeah, he likes this race and it suits him.Unfortunately with this kind of fashion how this race is raced recently his only chance to win is his AGR style Im worried, which is highly unlikely when he is a marked man. There are these idiots like Valverde,Gerrans and Martiin with strong teams who only want to race in last 5k lol, so no chance

These idiots won 5 editions of LBL! They pretty much know what they're doing, which I can't say for your boy here Kreuziger. If he's not strong in the finish, well he should try earlier. Yet you blame riders who are perfectly suitable for this finish and this style of racing. If someone is to blame, why don't you start with that same Kreuziger. Truth is, he'll hardly going to win this race, in any kind of fashion.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re: Re:

These idiots won 5 editions of LBL! They pretty much know what they're doing, which I can't say for your boy here Kreuziger. If he's not strong in the finish, well he should try earlier. Yet you blame riders who are perfectly suitable for this finish and this style of racing. If someone is to blame, why don't you start with that same Kreuziger. Truth is, he'll hardly going to win this race, in any kind of fashion.

So much anger and contempt in one post.

 

[Kwibus]

Riding on climbs these days have become races of attrition.

There is always a team riding very hard at the front to prevent anyone from attacking.

Reduce the size of teams... please!

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

'It's riders who make the race' is possibly the single most banal, unanalytical, meaningless pat aphorism in all of cycling. The course makes the race and determines the decisions that riders make.

When I see some moron make that comment now, I just ask them why we don't just use the Scheldeprijs course for all the seasons races if that's the case.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

'It's riders who make the race' is possibly the single most banal, unanalytical, meaningless pat aphorism in all of cycling. The course makes the race and determines the decisions that riders make.

When I see some moron make that comment now, I just ask them why we don't just use the Scheldeprijs course for all the seasons races if that's the case.

Its true for exactly this Giro, the 2016-edition. Lets stop making excuses and let them bring the heat.

 

[Billie]

next year Matthews, Sagan, Bouhanni, Cocquard and even Degenkolb and Kristoff should all ride the Ardennes. Current racing suits their chances and hopefully seeing these sprinters still there in the closing kms will make the climbers and puncheurs realise how pathetic their racing has become.

 

[jsem94]

Re:

next year Matthews, Sagan, Bouhanni, Cocquard and even Degenkolb and Kristoff should all ride the Ardennes. Current racing suits their chances and hopefully seeing these sprinters still there in the closing kms will make the climbers and puncheurs realise how pathetic their racing has become.

Agreed. Sagan should definitely try. He can win LBL easily IMO if he lightens his spring race programme. He can win 4/5 monuments definitely and be the greatest classics rider since Kelly.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re:

next year Matthews, Sagan, Bouhanni, Cocquard and even Degenkolb and Kristoff should all ride the Ardennes. Current racing suits their chances and hopefully seeing these sprinters still there in the closing kms will make the climbers and puncheurs realise how pathetic their racing has become.

They would be dropped before the feed zone. Well maybe with the exception of Sagan and Matthews, still they would not win tho.

Look at the quality of climbers who got dropped way before the final today.


What people fail to understand is that such a field as today contains a much larger amount of hill and climbing specialists then any other race. Thus the level difference is low, and it's both hard to ride away and hard to drop a lot of men.

In a hilly stage in a stage race or in a grand Tour, it's easier, because the field is a mix of climbers, tt specialists, sprinters and flat specialists/cobble specialists. Thus a much larger difference in quality going uphill. Peloton is easier to split, less strong climbing domestiques, more difference.

So the whole "pff coquard and matthews or even degenkolb could've won here because there is 30 men left" argument, does not fly.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

next year Matthews, Sagan, Bouhanni, Cocquard and even Degenkolb and Kristoff should all ride the Ardennes. Current racing suits their chances and hopefully seeing these sprinters still there in the closing kms will make the climbers and puncheurs realise how pathetic their racing has become.

They would be dropped before the feed zone. Well maybe with the exception of Sagan and Matthews, still they would not win tho.

Look at the quality of climbers who got dropped way before the final today.

Exactly. The course is too tough late on. Nobody attacks, because there is no need to attack to get rid of the weaker riders. Any attacker blows up, it's just a matter of crawling up that last hill the fastest

 

[plooton]

Kreuziger finally just on it, looking strong but...waiting for godot* to pass it on him and follow

*Valverde

 

[burning]

Re: Re:

next year Matthews, Sagan, Bouhanni, Cocquard and even Degenkolb and Kristoff should all ride the Ardennes. Current racing suits their chances and hopefully seeing these sprinters still there in the closing kms will make the climbers and puncheurs realise how pathetic their racing has become.

They would be dropped before the feed zone. Well maybe with the exception of Sagan and Matthews, still they would not win tho.

Look at the quality of climbers who got dropped way before the final today.


What people fail to understand is that such a field as today contains a much larger amount of hill and climbing specialists then any other race. Thus the level difference is low, and it's both hard to ride away and hard to drop a lot of men.

In a hilly stage in a stage race or in a grand Tour, it's easier, because the field is a mix of climbers, tt specialists, sprinters and flat specialists/cobble specialists. Thus a much larger difference in quality going uphill. Peloton is easier to split, less strong climbing domestiques, more difference.

So the whole "pff coquard and matthews or even degenkolb could've won here because there is 30 men left" argument, does not fly.

You are forgetting that Gerrans won that race and I would take Sagan over Gerrans on this sort of terrain in any day. If they race properly, surely he has no chance but given that Gerrans won this race, I fail to see why Sagan couldn't if he tries in future.