2016 TdF, Stage 11: Carcassonne → Montpellier (163km)

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Man that stage looks so weak without Ramaz. It's the last mountain stage of the race - it's supposed to be one of the most difficult.

Hopefully Ramaz stays in the race.

The article I read, they said they will decide the day before. But yeah, so, so weak.

 

[bassano]

I do not know but only I can say againist Quintana is that he did not attacked in pyrenees in mountains, Froome is wasting energy for like nothing which can cost him tour in alps (if they will not cancel most of climbs)
and it is strange how so many people turn around 180 degrees because such attacks
when he will atack in mountains like 20+km to go it worth something but for now, nothing changed for me

 

[spalco]

quote from stage 8 thread:

All Froome needs to do is win a reduced bunch sprint and he has so every Type there is

 

[saganftw]

you can bet your firstborn if quintana wins the tour,ppl will blame froome for wasting energy for very little gains...a lot of same people who today bash quintana for not riding ballsy enough

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

you can bet your firstborn if quintana wins the tour,ppl will blame froome for wasting energy for very little gains...a lot of same people who today bash quintana for not riding ballsy enough

Well yes, but that's the oldest truth in cycling. If you ride in a conservative manner and win then you played it clever. If you ride in a conservative manner and lose then you are a fool and a coward.

 

[RattaKuningas]

Re:

Someone give Marcel some tissues.

He probably doesn't like flat stages where there is anything like little climbs or winds that can ruin it for the sprinters or make them work more. Wants it easy.

 

[Miburo]

Froome, what a rider. Just fantastic stuff.

Sagan is a monster too

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Those traffic islands today, though.

 

[carton]

Re:

That's the Étape du Tour profile... have you a link that says it's closed for the race?

I saw something on twitter that I understood to be definitive but I now realize I misread (my french is awful). So I thought the Etape profile was in. I apologize if I alarmed anyone.

Yeah, dumb strategy, attempting to take time only when it's likely to actually happen.

It is too early to tell how clever Quintana's strategy is. After all, because he hasn't made any attempt to attack whatsoever, we don't have any idea if he will be able to bury Froome with one or two big attacks in the Alps. Maybe he will be able to and his conservatism will seem wise. Maybe he won't and it will seem stupid.

But it's worth noting that what your main rival is doing changes your own risk/reward calculations or at least it should. At this point, Froome has taken a 35 second lead with various minor attacks before we've reached a TT. Those 35 seconds are not a lot, but they could well be enough to use up the time Quintana might make dropping him in the mountains once. If Quintana turns out to be better in the mountains but not enormously better, that means that he might need not just an extra attack but an extra successful attack to win.

My issue with it is that there nothing to be done about it. If you can't take time on a rival, then that's that. That's why there were two gregarios up the road in Andorra. If Quintana thought he could I'm pretty sure he'd risk it. Particularly if his strategy revolves around having better recovery. Even more so assuming he'll lose time against the clock. He's taken maybe two digs, gone nowhere. If anything, for all his aggression, Froome has been unwilling to pull with Quintana on his wheel, even if it meant taking time on everyone else. They've been evenly matched so far, and Froome is the punchier of the two so it would be harder for Quintana to drop him. I don't actually recall Nairo ever properly dropping Froome on an outright attack (and he's made plenty of those over the years), it's either been a counter-attack or Froome just losing his wheel.

In any case it doesn't matter how this plays out, for me. I think he'd have gone nowhere with bigger attacks in the Pyrenees, regardless. Might've cost him like it did on LPSM. Might not. No matter. He wasn't dropping Froome anyway. Had he thought he could've he woudl've.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Huge waste of energy

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't, eh?

Very much so. If he rides conservative he's a robot and he's killing cycling. Now that he's actually attacking he's an idiot who has on clue what he's doing and wasting energy.

Just imagine for a second Contador or Nibali would have done it. Pretty sure there wouldn't be nearly the same backlash.

To be fair there hasn't been MUCH 'backlash' - mostly just people saying 'Don't like him normally, but chapeau'

which Is where I would stand if I had watched .... Must stop reading these threads while I am at work and before I watch the race.

You're right there's none of the vitriol that had been there in the past, which I think is good. Froome is far from a perfect cyclist, but he's also not the next Armstrong.

Yet there's so many posts saying it's either a dumb thing to do, cause he's wasting energy, or saying he must be afraid of Quintana. That doesn't really happen with Contador or Nibali.

Not true. I had a "disagreement" with a poster here that insisted that Contador's crashing is due to his fear of his rivals, his being nervous. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and perspective on what transpires. It could be argued that a gc rider that looks to take time on descents or on the flats is looking to balance that with time they may lose in other areas. The fact that, unlike other Tours that Froome has won, at this point (11 stages in) he hasn't already established a decent lead on virtually all of his rivals and even some that never stood a real chance, is a sign that he could be weaker in the mountains and itt than in the past. It could be argued either way. It's not always a case of Froome being set upon by the masses of his non-fans. It's a fairly reasonable argument.

Not that I agree with it. I just think he's head and shoulders above everyone else and he hadn't had the opportunity to exhibit this superiority in its totality, other than with his descent to victory and today's stage which I haven't even watched yet.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Lawson Craddock was on his own most of the day. Made the time cut by a couple of minutes I think

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Sagan is officialy God and Froome is a TOP 5 racer in the pro peloton...We witnessed something special...

Some would argue Froome is top-2, me included, but Sagan is at least one above the rest. What a racer.

its very hard to put vanmarcke,nibali,contador,froome in order for me....Sagan is clear no.1 of course

I would be a Froome fan if he was not racing for that boring Sky, thats for sure

Not sure if serious? I like the guy, but what's he doing listed in that kind of company? He's won about two races in 10 years.

I think that with Sagan he is the guy who attacks most often in classics iirc (and has serious portion of bad luck )


Now onto Ventoux!!!

I'm Belgian and even I don't care much for Vanmarcke. He never performs outside of the classics and even in his classics he often disappoints... He couldn't dream of a better scenario to win Roubaix then this year. And he couldn't even get on the podium. I much prefer GVA then, he also never won a big classic, but at least he won T-A and two Tour stages + yellow.

 

[hrotha]

Re:

Someone give Marcel some tissues.

Quintana: "Sometimes the organizers don't take the athletes into account. They should think over stages like this beforehand"
https://twitter.com/Copedaleando/status/753256541395021825

 

[CheckMyPecs]

While Quintana was whining, Froome was winning.

 

[Hakkapelit]

Froome keeps levelling up Hard not to begin to root for him a bit when riding like this.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Maybe he is deliberately making an effort to be less "robotic" and therefore more endearing to the casual French fans.

Very exciting stage in the end today.

 

[hrotha]

Unzue is pathetic.
https://twitter.com/Movistar_Team/status/753252082292056064

 

[LeSensei]

Unzue is such a loser, and Quintana seems okay with the ultraconservative strategy. Both looking forward to celebrate the 2nd spot in Paris.

 

[Red Rick]

Can somebody translate? Yo no hablo espanol very well

 

[doperhopper]

Re: Re:

well, if they manage to crack Vroom on Ramaz (last mountain stage) and gain massive time on subsequent Joux Plane there will be tons of comments about their smart waiting game, playing to their strengths, while Sky will be bashed for marginal stupidity of accumulating fatigue for few little seconds (and pointing out they should be well aware of that since at least last year).

Ramaz is out:

It isn't confirmed tho, 99% sure.
But what a horrible profile.

OK, so the Tour is over... that combo was the only opportunity to boil a well pre-cooked Vroom. Now it becomes a one climb stage (from the GC point of view). Froomey will be relatively fresh on Emosson, maybe Q. can distance him a bit under Mt. Blanc, but then the skytrain arrives at the bottom of Joux Plane and Nairito is still a minute down... skyborgs pull the first half and NQ is still a minute down (assuming only 1 min TT loss and the 30 sec he has now will be taken back by then)... and Vroom will happily ride his stemwatching tempo even if Nairo attacks... eventually recovering some losses till Morzine - no way he can lose a minute on that single climb.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

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Can somebody translate? Yo no hablo espanol very well

Unzué is basically whining about today's course, à la Kittel.

 

[RattaKuningas]

Re: Re:

well, if they manage to crack Vroom on Ramaz (last mountain stage) and gain massive time on subsequent Joux Plane there will be tons of comments about their smart waiting game, playing to their strengths, while Sky will be bashed for marginal stupidity of accumulating fatigue for few little seconds (and pointing out they should be well aware of that since at least last year).

Ramaz is out:

It isn't confirmed tho, 99% sure.
But what a horrible profile.

OK, so the Tour is over... that combo was the only opportunity to boil a well pre-cooked Vroom. Now it becomes a one climb stage (from the GC point of view). Froomey will be relatively fresh on Emosson, maybe Q. can distance him a bit under Mt. Blanc, but then the skytrain arrives at the bottom of Joux Plane and Nairito is still a minute down... skyborgs pull the first half and NQ is still a minute down (assuming only 1 min TT loss and the 30 sec he has now will be taken back by then)... and Vroom will happily ride his stemwatching tempo even if Nairo attacks... eventually recovering some losses till Morzine - no way he can lose a minute on that single climb.

I think Quintana is prepearing to go all out on stage 17.

 

[spalco]

Quintana and Movistar whining makes me even more confident, this was a good move by Froome.

 

[KGB]

Re: Re:

Great entertainment, but Froome's going to pay for those 10 seconds.

I don't buy this. Sagan pays for his everyday effort by getting stronger and stronger.

It's a bit of a different situation; Sagan will effectively taking a = rest day for the next two stages. Froome has to be at his very best.

No,Nairo doesn't have balls to attack Vroome and Sky is strong easy to follow whole Movist even if Unze will be with them on bike.

 

[Andy262]

It's a bummer waiting till 1900 to watch the highlights without knowing the result..

Anyway, bwahahaha, that was funny.... Froome is having fun this year. Hopefully this won't catch him up but hey, chapeau, you are doing it in style this year....

Breakaway winning at Montpellier :surprised: