2016 Tour de Suisse, 11-19 June

[Cance > TheRest]

Re:

Wait, are some people actually happy with this route?

Seriously, three back to back difficult MTFs the last one being Rettenbachferner = very boring racing with the favourites only attacking in the last few km because they're all scared of Rettenbach. I have no problem with three difficult mountain stages in Suisse, but I have a problem with these particular stages and the fact that they're positioned right after each other.

That scenario is not bound to happen, when there's no team to control all the action. I think the incentive to attack will be there no matter the positioning of three hard MTF after each other. Or atleast I'm hoping for it

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, everyone's going to the Dauphine, let's so lets limit the action we get.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Yeah, everyone's going to the Dauphine, let's so lets limit the action we get.

Lol

 

[BigMac]

Yep, this is the worst route since that edition with very few mountains.

Oh, destiny.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Re: Re:

Hell yea. I like the 'well, everyone goes to Dauphine anyways so lets make an insane route for the **** of it'-approach.

But it's not insane at all. I don't understand why people think this route is insane at all. It's just a bunch of straightforward back to back MTFs in stages that don't give incentive for long attacks and to make it worse in the last stage of this mountain triptych they put a crazy behemoth of a climb to ensure everybody will be scared of wasting too much energy in the stages before that. Of course in the end it is up to the riders, but this route is terrible in terms of providing incentive aggressive riding.

Actually, looking at the route again, it's lacking in TT kilometers and they made the MTF's to ensure the least possible action out of it, but actually the final stage to Davos is quite good. The GC will already have big gaps by then after Rettenbach and a TT and we have a short stage with two serious climbs, a descent finish and some high altitude. The final stage could be great.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Hell yea. I like the 'well, everyone goes to Dauphine anyways so lets make an insane route for the **** of it'-approach.

But it's not insane at all. I don't understand why people think this route is insane at all. It's just a bunch of straightforward back to back MTFs in stages that don't give incentive for long attacks and to make it worse in the last stage of this mountain triptych they put a crazy behemoth of a climb to ensure everybody will be scared of wasting too much energy in the stages before that. Of course in the end it is up to the riders, but this route is terrible in terms of providing incentive aggressive riding.

Actually, looking at the route again, it's lacking in TT kilometers and they made the MTF's to ensure the least possible action out of it, but actually the final stage to Davos is quite good. The GC will already have big gaps by then after Rettenbach and a TT and we have a short stage with two serious climbs, a descent finish and some high altitude. The final stage could be great.

Its without a doubt the most mountainous route I can remember - not that it makes it better or worse, but its at least intriguing. And when do we see long range attack if not for the final stage? Very, very rarely. A good route in a week stage race doesn't necessarily have to make big incentives to long range attacks to be good.

If you actually look at the stages, those stages are more than just a straightforward MTF as you described. Furkaspass and Gotthardpass before the finish in Amden and Klaussen before the finish in Cari. I can't remember I've seen such a mountainous Tour de Suisse with 4 big mountain stages.

So yes, I think its a pretty insane (or crazy route) with 4 big mountain stages and 2 ITTs, albeit unfortunately, very short. And yes, we agree that the last stage is good, but I think its 'stage making gone wrong' when we expect 2 or 3 stages with long range attacks in a 9 days race. Thats not how modern cycling works and the last stage makes up for that IMO.

 

[glassmoon]

love this race, scenery
too bad it clashes with CdD - weak field

 

[staubsauger]

JL Dombrowski looked strong in the final week of the Giro. There might be something to expect from him as well as Talansky with this mountainous route!

 

[jaylew]

I like the route. I'm not buying the idea that the racing will be bad because of the back-to-back-to-back mtfs.

 

[Poursuivant]

Anyone know why Spilak has entered one GT in five years?

 

[StryderHells]

Re:

Anyone know why Spilak has entered one GT in five years?

He's more valuable to the team riding these 1 week stage races, also possibly doesn't have the engine for 3 weeks

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

Anyone know why Spilak has entered one GT in five years?

He's world class in one week races and hates the heat.
That said, I still think that he could have done very well in the rainy 2013 Giro, the weather and the TTs would have been great for him.

 

[Poursuivant]

Re: Re:

Anyone know why Spilak has entered one GT in five years?

He's more valuable to the team riding these 1 week stage races, also possibly doesn't have the engine for 3 weeks

Strange isn't it? Even if he entered a GT for a week or two, he could stage hunt.

 

[johnymax]

Re:

Anyone know why Spilak has entered one GT in five years?

Spilak is a strange case. It's very frustrating to be his fan. He doesn't ride GTs, he doesn't ride classics, he doesn't ride NCs, he doesn't ride WCs, he always does the same schedule with a peak in late April, May and June. His races are P-N, PV, Romandie and Suisse. Some will say it's a smart thing to only focus on one week races and stick to it, but I don't like it. And that's because I have a feeling he is capable of more.

I don't remember in recent years a rider that's as complete as he is (meaning good climbing and TT skills) and has no decent result at all in a GT. And I'm not talking about GC, but also individual stages. He has no top ten result in a single GT stage!? Is there any similar rider? I can't think of any. I'd be happy if someone can name that rider. He is not that kind of one week GC rider that does good only because there are not major climbs in the race. On the contrary, he likes steep long climbs and long ITTs. That's why he does well in TdS and TdR. It's not because he likes Switzerland (although he does), but because those are the races with proper climbing in the mountains.

When he was asked why he doesn't ride GTs he said that his body is completely exhausted in the third week and he decided to focus on one week races where he thinks he can achieve very good results. And that's fine. My problem with him is that he doesn't even try. He did the Tour 2 years ago because the team asked him to. Last time he did the Giro was in 2011. He rode the Giro when he was a 21yo neopro and was 27th in the third week in MTT on Kronplatz. That's a pretty good result for a neopro. Ok, I get it. No Tour, no Vuelta because of the heat. But come on, try the Giro just once now while you are in your best age.

Look at Porte and Costa. They are similar riders. But they have tried several times. They have some great results and showings in GTs. They are both inconsistent yes, but Costa has what 3 or 4 Tour stage wins, Porte has some great performances helping Froome. Porte also changed team because he wants more freedom in GTs. And they'll try again this year (GC or stage hunt), next year and so on. What about Spilak? Same old story. No GT and no Ardennes classics this year. At least there are the Olympics but with the heat in Rio I don't know if he'll be able to fight with the best.

One reason he doesn't ride GTs could be also because those races get a lot of media attention. He is very shy, he doesn't speak foreign languages well and has difficulties talking to reporters. But that's part of the sport and he should have been used to it by now.

Ah, I could go on and on but what's the point. Next year I'll be hoping again to see him on the Giro roster, but I know there's very little chance. I hope he changes team and the new team forces him to do the Giro Hopefully at least Rogla won't be this frustrating to cheer for.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Nice and insightful post, johnny.

 

[StryderHells]

If Spilak really doesn't have the engine to last 3 weeks and with his aversion the heat then it makes sense he stays away from the Tour/Vuelta, with the Giro placed where it is then it's not surprising he skips that as if he's exhausted from it then hampers his chances in the races he excels at

 

[lenric]

I'm portuguese and I'm forced to recognize Costa as horse crap. Eurosport Portugal journalists are always kissing his ass, claiming he's very talented, he's capable of a top 10 in a GT (possibly if all the planets align and 20% of the top 10 contenders abandon) and whatever nonsense they're always spitting. Now coming to Suisse, which as a harder parcour, that's just ballsy.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

I'm portuguese and I'm forced to recognize Costa as horse crap. Eurosport Portugal journalists are always kissing his ***, claiming he's very talented, he's capable of a top 10 in a GT (possibly if all the planets align and 20% of the top 10 contenders abandon) and whatever nonsense they're always spitting. Now coming to Suisse, which as a harder parcour, that's just ballsy.

Even tho is route isn't suited to him, he has higher chances of winning here than in Dauphine. And his track record here in Suisse is amazing - smart choice I say.

Tour GC is another question all together. I think I read that he wan't to target stages like in 2013 instead of the nonsense he has done the last 2 years, thats not the Rui Costa I know.

 

[BigMac]

Re:

I'm portuguese and I'm forced to recognize Costa as horse crap. Eurosport Portugal journalists are always kissing his ***, claiming he's very talented, he's capable of a top 10 in a GT (possibly if all the planets align and 20% of the top 10 contenders abandon) and whatever nonsense they're always spitting. Now coming to Suisse, which as a harder parcour, that's just ballsy.

Costa is horse crap because he is not GT material? It's ironic, to say the least, that you would criticize Portuguese Eurosport commentators for ''kissing his arse'' (which doesn't really happen) while displaying this new-to-the-cycling-world mentality fueled by clueless media that Grand Tours are the only way to measure a cyclist's worth and, at the end of the day, the only cycling races that matter. He will never win a Grand Tour but he is among the crème de la crème when it comes to one-week long stage races and hilly classics, not to mention the fact that he is one of the most cunning riders in the peloton. How did the horse crap ride its way to first in Firenze? How did the horse crap win three Tours de Suisse in a row? How come the horse crap contends virtually every race it enters? Is horse crap the new golden turd?

 

[StryderHells]

Re:

I'm portuguese and I'm forced to recognize Costa as horse crap. Eurosport Portugal journalists are always kissing his ***, claiming he's very talented, he's capable of a top 10 in a GT (possibly if all the planets align and 20% of the top 10 contenders abandon) and whatever nonsense they're always spitting. Now coming to Suisse, which as a harder parcour, that's just ballsy.

Costa is a talented rider who just went in the wrong direction chasing GT GC, he has shown what he's capable of in 1 week races, hilly 1 day races and as a stage hunter in GT's.

 

[staubsauger]

Wait until the Tour of Switzerland and the Tour of France with a final judgment. I ain't gonna be surprised if he wins Switzerland once again and secures a stage win plus maybe the polka dot jersey in France!

It's all about correct peaking with Costa. If he aims for realistic goals this summer, he certainly has good chances to archive them.

 

[filipepc]

Re: Re:

I'm portuguese and I'm forced to recognize Costa as horse crap. Eurosport Portugal journalists are always kissing his ***, claiming he's very talented, he's capable of a top 10 in a GT (possibly if all the planets align and 20% of the top 10 contenders abandon) and whatever nonsense they're always spitting. Now coming to Suisse, which as a harder parcour, that's just ballsy.

Costa is horse crap because he is not GT material? It's ironic, to say the least, that you would criticize Portuguese Eurosport commentators for ''kissing his ****'' (which doesn't really happen) while displaying this new-to-the-cycling-world mentality fueled by clueless media that Grand Tours are the only way to measure a cyclist's worth and, at the end of the day, the only cycling races that matter. He will never win a Grand Tour but he is among the crème de la crème when it comes to one-week long stage races and hilly classics, not to mention the fact that he is one of the most cunning riders in the peloton. How did the horse crap ride its way to first in Firenze? How did the horse crap win three Tours de Suisse in a row? How come the horse crap contends virtually every race it enters? Is horse crap the new golden turd?

I´m Portuguese too, and this is a bad comentary, to me withou any sense... Rui costa is a Class rider. He´s a great rider, capable of winning second figure GRAND TOURS, and one day races. This is just to great riders, the only problem that i think he has his that during some years he believe that he could do first places in the Tour, and to me, he can´t because he´s not a top climber, and has always one or two bad days. But that doesn´t mean he´s not a great rider, because he is. Not every riders are able to win GT races, and it hasn´t to be like that... Each rider has a capacity to do diferente things and i just hope he can understand has i think that he can win so many races if he forget that dream of the tour classifications.

I really like Rui, he´s a solid guy, that has every year a top classification in the world tour, meaning of his fantastic capacity to some kind of races.

 

[filipepc]

Re: Re:

I'm portuguese and I'm forced to recognize Costa as horse crap. Eurosport Portugal journalists are always kissing his ***, claiming he's very talented, he's capable of a top 10 in a GT (possibly if all the planets align and 20% of the top 10 contenders abandon) and whatever nonsense they're always spitting. Now coming to Suisse, which as a harder parcour, that's just ballsy.

Costa is a talented rider who just went in the wrong direction chasing GT GC, he has shown what he's capable of in 1 week races, hilly 1 day races and as a stage hunter in GT's.

It´s like this, without a doubt, what i mean to say. If he forget the 3 week grand tours he can always be a top contender to any race.

 

[pablohidalgo7]

Spilak is wasting his talent, he was also strong in cobbles classics at the begining of his career.
He never rides Gt, never rides classics. I agree with johnymax, he is a bit frustating.
He does fine in 1 week races, but he can do a lot of more than simply that.

 

[jsem94]

I think he's got to take a chance a give it all in a GT. I mean, a Giro podium is a hell of a lot better than winning Romandie IMHO. Try proving yourself on the biggest of stages.