2016 Tour Down Under WT January 19-24 Adelaide

[Lil_Tommy_V]

Looking forward to moving day tomorrow, can we rule Gerrans out of the GC equation after todays fall?

I would imagine we will see 2 pronged attacks from BMC and it will be interesting to see who hangs in up corkscrew
Henao, Valls, McCarthy?

Hopefully Pantano hangs around as it would be nice to see if he can replicate his epic descending from stage 16 of the Tour

 

[Jancouver]

BTW I was wrong about Ewan as there was not 50 riders before the crash .... there was 82 ...

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

BTW I was wrong about Ewan as there was not 50 riders before the crash .... there was 82 ...

Swift, Nizzolo, Kump, Wippert, Farrar, Renshaw, Pelucchi, Jones, Gourgeard and Howard all got dropped before Ewan did.

That should tell you something about how the stage was raced

 

[Sasquatch]

Did people think that Ewan would do something today? Was never going to do anything for the team. Today was all about Gerrans for them. No one else. Ewan was best not overexerting himself so he can win Friday's stage.

 

[greenedge]

Those are the types of crashes that just shouldn't happen at this level. An uphill drag sprint should not see a crash like that and god knows what Westra was doing. First crashes of the season for Gerrans and G Thomas already!

Orica seem to be involved in most crashes. They dont ride too smart in the peloton.

Geraint crashes more than the whole of OGE combined. Besides today was Astana's fault- OGE were well positioned at the front where crashes usually do not happen as much as further down the pack.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Looking forward to moving day tomorrow, can we rule Gerrans out of the GC equation after todays fall?

I would imagine we will see 2 pronged attacks from BMC and it will be interesting to see who hangs in up corkscrew
Henao, Valls, McCarthy?

Hopefully Pantano hangs around as it would be nice to see if he can replicate his epic descending from stage 16 of the Tour

He lost his best chance to gain time, IMO.

 

[jens_attacks]

So what about mccarthy though?
Did he stepped up to big boys league?
Tremendous legs and veins, he might fight with dennis

 

[Squirbos_19]

Re:

So what about mccarthy though?
Did he stepped up to big boys league?
Tremendous legs and veins, he might fight with dennis

It was a really impressive sprint, and I think he's got a legitimate chance to win the GC. He can pick up some more bonus seconds on the corkscrew stage as that could end up in a reduced bunch sprint. Also his results in Turkey last year show he's capable on the hills so he should do well on Willunga hill.

Hopefully this is just the start of a fantastic season to come.

 

[GP Blanco]

Those are the types of crashes that just shouldn't happen at this level. An uphill drag sprint should not see a crash like that and god knows what Westra was doing. First crashes of the season for Gerrans and G Thomas already!

Orica seem to be involved in most crashes. They dont ride too smart in the peloton.

Geraint crashes more than the whole of OGE combined. Besides today was Astana's fault- OGE were well positioned at the front where crashes usually do not happen as much as further down the pack.

Westra doesn't agree with you. He stated he crashed because Impey touched his back wheel.

 

[Jancouver]

Re: Re:

BTW I was wrong about Ewan as there was not 50 riders before the crash .... there was 82 ...

Swift, Nizzolo, Kump, Wippert, Farrar, Renshaw, Pelucchi, Jones, Gourgeard and Howard all got dropped before Ewan did.

That should tell you something about how the stage was raced

None of those guys are being called the best sprinter or future San Remo winner. Sorry bro but when 80 out of 140 guys are still there for the bunch sprint, he should be there, especially if he is the size of TLMRP (or Purito) and there are no categorized climbs on the stage. Just look how many Drapac and UniSA guys were still there.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

You're right, there will be a lot of team pressure to be the sprinter stacking up the wins. But he could spend his whole 20's as a pure sprinter, and then he's still got many years to fully mature into a classics man. Walloon classics though? Could see him winning Amstel. Not sure about the others though.

to do well in the Ardennes, he may have to develop that ability earlier, and ride GC for the one and two week stage races, mebbe improve his chrono threshold...

how did Bartoli develop? how did he start?

not as a sprinter, just with the kick of a mule as a chancer, a puncheur

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

BTW I was wrong about Ewan as there was not 50 riders before the crash .... there was 82 ...

Swift, Nizzolo, Kump, Wippert, Farrar, Renshaw, Pelucchi, Jones, Gourgeard and Howard all got dropped before Ewan did.

That should tell you something about how the stage was raced

None of those guys are being called the best sprinter or future San Remo winner. Sorry bro but when 80 out of 140 guys are still there for the bunch sprint, he should be there, especially if he is the size of TLMRP (or Purito) and there are no categorized climbs on the stage. Just look how many Drapac and UniSA guys were still there.

the guy is 21. he could be still riding espoirs. They speak of Diego Ullissi as being a classics king like Bartoli, and he is damn fast, and goes uphill well. what is he, 23? he has to years on Ewan.

they will be good to watch to go head to head, I would like Ewan to be able to ride the classics, not as a sprinter, I reckon he has more ability than to just be a Cavendish clone.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Good to see Vakoc covering Dennis. Solid 5th today. I think the Top10 or even better is doable.

While crashes and bad luck sucks, I'm glad to see no Orica in Top10.

And where is the "new best sprinter". Frankly, he will be just another one trick pony if he can't even hang on with the bunch today he will never win any monument or a big race.

I like the young Flemish kid, Wouter Wippert, he has the best name in the peloton, and without any help at Drapac he mixed it up in the bunchies at California last year, he was flying... be interesting to see if he can take down any big wins on Cannondale, I hope he can, I like the cut of his jib

 

[Lupi33x]

Those are the types of crashes that just shouldn't happen at this level. An uphill drag sprint should not see a crash like that and god knows what Westra was doing. First crashes of the season for Gerrans and G Thomas already!

Orica seem to be involved in most crashes. They dont ride too smart in the peloton.

Geraint crashes more than the whole of OGE combined. Besides today was Astana's fault- OGE were well positioned at the front where crashes usually do not happen as much as further down the pack.

Even if it was Astana's fault, OGE always seem to be involved. This is what I mean, they dont ride too smart in the peloton.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

the guy is 21. he could be still riding espoirs. They speak of Diego Ullissi as being a classics king like Bartoli, and he is damn fast, and goes uphill well. what is he, 23? he has to years on Ewan.

they will be good to watch to go head to head, I would like Ewan to be able to ride the classics, not as a sprinter, I reckon he has more ability than to just be a Cavendish clone.

Ulissi is 26 so he certainly has a few years on Ewan

 

[StryderHells]

It really does confuse me why so many seem to dislike Caleb Ewan, he seems to be performing really well for a 21 year old or am I missing something? It's not really his fault that he's been so hyped up

 

[greenedge]

Those are the types of crashes that just shouldn't happen at this level. An uphill drag sprint should not see a crash like that and god knows what Westra was doing. First crashes of the season for Gerrans and G Thomas already!

Orica seem to be involved in most crashes. They dont ride too smart in the peloton.

Geraint crashes more than the whole of OGE combined. Besides today was Astana's fault- OGE were well positioned at the front where crashes usually do not happen as much as further down the pack.

Westra doesn't agree with you. He stated he crashed because Impey touched his back wheel.

Ah ok, I didn't know that. From my view it seemed as if he just swerved across the road, but he's probably right then.

 

[greenedge]

Those are the types of crashes that just shouldn't happen at this level. An uphill drag sprint should not see a crash like that and god knows what Westra was doing. First crashes of the season for Gerrans and G Thomas already!

Orica seem to be involved in most crashes. They dont ride too smart in the peloton.

Geraint crashes more than the whole of OGE combined. Besides today was Astana's fault- OGE were well positioned at the front where crashes usually do not happen as much as further down the pack.

Even if it was Astana's fault, OGE always seem to be involved. This is what I mean, they dont ride too smart in the peloton.

I know they had a lot of crashes at last years TDF and i'm sure there would be a few more instances were they fell down more compared to other teams, but I think all teams have big crashes. OGE seem to be one of the teams actually that ride very good position (first few riders) into the finish of many races, along with BMC and EQS, so I don't think it's fair to characterise riders such as Tuft, Hayman, Albasini who have vast experience and seem to do very good jobs as road captains as not riding smart in the peleton. I think maybe with the leaders such as Matthews and Gerrans who can compete in treacherous races like AGR (road furniture wise) the likelihood of crashes is very high, but they seem to be quite well protected.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Re: Re:

Good to see Vakoc covering Dennis. Solid 5th today. I think the Top10 or even better is doable.

While crashes and bad luck sucks, I'm glad to see no Orica in Top10.

And where is the "new best sprinter". Frankly, he will be just another one trick pony if he can't even hang on with the bunch today he will never win any monument or a big race.

I like the young Flemish kid, Wouter Wippert, he has the best name in the peloton, and without any help at Drapac he mixed it up in the bunchies at California last year, he was flying... be interesting to see if he can take down any big wins on Cannondale, I hope he can, I like the cut of his jib

Wippert is dutch, so only if he comes from Sealand I will not consider him flemish.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

So what about mccarthy though?
Did he stepped up to big boys league?
Tremendous legs and veins, he might fight with dennis

It was a really impressive sprint, and I think he's got a legitimate chance to win the GC. He can pick up some more bonus seconds on the corkscrew stage as that could end up in a reduced bunch sprint. Also his results in Turkey last year show he's capable on the hills so he should do well on Willunga hill.

Hopefully this is just the start of a fantastic season to come.

McCarthy is an underrated talent, flying a bit under the radar. Contador, Tinkov and Riis all rate him and he's earned his new contract.

Hopefully you're right and he has a great year.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

It really does confuse me why so many seem to dislike Caleb Ewan, he seems to be performing really well for a 21 year old or am I missing something? It's not really his fault that he's been so hyped up

99% of it IS due to the absolutely ridiculous level of hype that has accompanied him. I'm one of those critics and it certainly is personal or anything that he has personally said or done; but rather the cold assessment of "what he brings to the table".

Yes, he's only 21 but the fact is that he's now "playing with the big boys". He IS very very quick in a flat sprint and an exceptional crit rider but very little top professional racing is criteriums.

The facts are that he IS physically small & underweight as compared to the topline sprinters which leaves him underpowered with regards to his engine. Whilst this has sprinting repercussions, this most impacts him with regards to his "engine" & his capacity to last with the race pace; not only for longer one day races (if he were to target classics) but more importantly being able to hold onto the peleton when they "drop the hammer" from a distance out from the finish. If you watched last year's Vuelta ....... and beyond his (commendable) stage victory, you would have realised that he was "distanced" well before the finish or even hit any hills for this every reason.

This lack of size seemingly is NOT accompanied by any climbing prowess. Yes, he can go up a hill ...... if it's not overly steep and it's not raced hard but once any pace is put on ........ ping goes Caleb ! You may have noted that OGE "pulled" him from the Vuelta before they got to any real mountains; if he's going to be the great sprinter people want him to be then he's going to have to find some solutions or he won't be finishing any GT/winning on the Champs Elysses. His lack of size/small engine renders him of zero value as a domestique at any race so he is in essence a "one trick pony"

Ewan might certainly win a helluva lot of races; the question is what level/what standard. Yes, he can continue to "beat up" against 3rd tier riders. No doubt, he'll usually be in good form at this time of year so some TdU stages could be one the cards. He could win some stages at other 1 week tours against other 2nd tier sprinters/non specialist sprinters. Maybe even a couple of early stages of Giro/Vuelta but that's it. Mega star with Monuments on his palmares; Cavendish size stage win tally ........ don't think so !

 

[Lupi33x]

Maybe a Tour of Poland crit is his go.

 

[Karaev1]

I think is still early to be sure about what Ewan will do during his career but in my opinion there is another guy that is the same age as him and is already better and people do not talk that much about him.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

BTW I was wrong about Ewan as there was not 50 riders before the crash .... there was 82 ...

Swift, Nizzolo, Kump, Wippert, Farrar, Renshaw, Pelucchi, Jones, Gourgeard and Howard all got dropped before Ewan did.

That should tell you something about how the stage was raced

And where is the "new best sprinter". Frankly, he will be just another one trick pony if he can't even hang on with the bunch today he will never win any monument or a big race.

None of those guys are being called the best sprinter or future San Remo winner. Sorry bro but when 80 out of 140 guys are still there for the bunch sprint, he should be there, especially if he is the size of TLMRP (or Purito) and there are no categorized climbs on the stage. Just look how many Drapac and UniSA guys were still there.

You're being ridiculous, Jancouver. I doubt Greipel, Cav, or Kittel would have been there either. Besides, he has shown he can climb a bit. You know how this goes - sometimes sprinters get in decent climbing form too, other times they can't climb a lick. We've seen every major sprinter bar Kittel surprise us at times with his climbing legs. I get that you're probably responding to people talking about him as a possible classic winner, but it's just as bad to make a sweeping statement about a 21 year old based on one sprint.

 

[Jancouver]

Re: Re:

It really does confuse me why so many seem to dislike Caleb Ewan, he seems to be performing really well for a 21 year old or am I missing something? It's not really his fault that he's been so hyped up

99% of it IS due to the absolutely ridiculous level of hype that has accompanied him. I'm one of those critics and it certainly is personal or anything that he has personally said or done; but rather the cold assessment of "what he brings to the table".

Yes, he's only 21 but the fact is that he's now "playing with the big boys". He IS very very quick in a flat sprint and an exceptional crit rider but very little top professional racing is criteriums.

The facts are that he IS physically small & underweight as compared to the topline sprinters which leaves him underpowered with regards to his engine. Whilst this has sprinting repercussions, this most impacts him with regards to his "engine" & his capacity to last with the race pace; not only for longer one day races (if he were to target classics) but more importantly being able to hold onto the peleton when they "drop the hammer" from a distance out from the finish. If you watched last year's Vuelta ....... and beyond his (commendable) stage victory, you would have realised that he was "distanced" well before the finish or even hit any hills for this every reason.

This lack of size seemingly is NOT accompanied by any climbing prowess. Yes, he can go up a hill ...... if it's not overly steep and it's not raced hard but once any pace is put on ........ ping goes Caleb ! You may have noted that OGE "pulled" him from the Vuelta before they got to any real mountains; if he's going to be the great sprinter people want him to be then he's going to have to find some solutions or he won't be finishing any GT/winning on the Champs Elysses. His lack of size/small engine renders him of zero value as a domestique at any race so he is in essence a "one trick pony"

Ewan might certainly win a helluva lot of races; the question is what level/what standard. Yes, he can continue to "beat up" against 3rd tier riders. No doubt, he'll usually be in good form at this time of year so some TdU stages could be one the cards. He could win some stages at other 1 week tours against other 2nd tier sprinters/non specialist sprinters. Maybe even a couple of early stages of Giro/Vuelta but that's it. Mega star with Monuments on his palmares; Cavendish size stage win tally ........ don't think so !

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

I could not say it better!

Unfortunately, some fangirls are just blindfolded and would not accept reality. This reminds me of the Porte's discussion before the last year's Giro.

Oh boy, how many insults did I have to listen to for disregarding his overall GT chances. Just about every Aussie on this forum already saw him winning the Giro/Tour combo and would not accept otherwise.